Is Makar the second best player in the league?

[McRpro]

Both of them won more in the NHL than McDavid ever has or will (in Edmonton anyway).

Henri Richard has 11 cups. He's best player ever!!!

 

[who_me?]

Mikhail Makarov is the best player in the world!

 

[McJedi]

Henri Richard has 11 cups. He's best player ever!!!

McDavid has zero and he’s not the NHLs best player ever or either.

 

[McJedi]

Because his resume is tiny in comparison. Sure, he's done a lot at a young age, but who knows how well he holds up? Will he be in the race at 35+? He shouldn't be compared to players with 7 Norris Trophies, or players who were top 4 Norris candidates 17 years in a row until he's got some more hardware to his name. No one dispute that he's excellent, but one Norris is not enough for all time great status.



So now Makar is even better than Orr?

Orr did impressive things vs very unimpressive opponents at a time the league simply wasn’t elite or fully professional.

Hockey always been a niche sport but back then it wasn’t even all that international.

Dominating 1960s NHL hockey is no where near as impressive as being elite in 2022.

Amazing player in his era but Orr’s era was a weak one for the sport. Like being great in MLB before black and hispanic players were competing. Babe Ruth dominated weak opponents given the huge number of potential players that weren’t allowed to compete.

in a somewhat similar vein, what Orr did in his day is just not as impressive as being the best against the actual best… which you have in today’s game.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Henri Richard has 11 cups. He's best player ever!!!

What exactly is the point of saying this?

 

[Coffey]

What exactly is the point of saying this?

Because that dude he was replying to is using cups as who’s a better player.

 

[Freaky Styley]

I'm taking him 2nd in league quite easily. He's like a unicorn do everything 1D that's right handed and still hasn't even hit his prime defensively. I mean what more does someone need to do to be considered number 2 behind McDavid?

Not to mention the fact he outplayed McDavid head to head in a playoff series..
This is one of those things that is obvious to the people paying attention, but to the mass public it will magically become 'common knowledge' someday soon (probably after this season) like it was so all along. Can't believe anyone still has any doubts about this guy.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Not even close. I don't think he would be that big of a factor in Buffalo.

 

[CanucksSayEh]

There's a half dozen or so guys that at any given time could be given the spot, but it's never really defined. The only clear gap, is the one after McD. The rest of the list is up for debate.

 

[missionAvs]

A hot take is having the guy who just led his team to the Stanley cup as number one, who is the same guy that most rankings have at number 2? Okay, friend.


What exactly is it that McDavid is so much better at? The 0.1 points per game difference?

Edit - didn't realize was about Makar.

The guy you mentioned here in bold had more of a led the Avs to the cup type influence than MacK. MacK's a top 5 center in the league easy but quite a few can make a case for #2 including him. I'd argue that most rankings probably have Matthews as the #2 after this most recent season unless you can prove otherwise.

 

[bobholly39]

lol I've seen people compare him to Orr already

i'm not saying it makes sense to compare Makar to Orr or pretend he's as good as Orr or ever will be - but Makar has played 3 seasons so far.

Go back in the history of the NHL, 100+ years, and find me any defenseman who can be argued to have had a better 3 year start at the NHL level than Makar has.

He has a case for #2 - or at worst, very close to #2 as there might be 1 or 2 other guys also in that range.

Development isn't linear, so there's no guarantee how good his overall career will end up of course. And guys like Bourque and Lidstrom had insane careers and odds are Makar will never match up. But I still think he's fully earned the right to be compared to those guys based on his career start, until he starts to let up.

 

[TheRarestDangles]

NO DOY

 

[McJedi]

Because that dude he was replying to is using cups as who’s a better player.

Where as Edmonton fans seem to use dumb awards voted on by the media as the basis for greatness.

 

[NoName]

I would say “No” but it it is definitely arguable given how he took a leap this year and still has his prime ahead of him.


“Arguable” seems to be the consensus from nearly everyone here.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I would say “No” but it it is definitely arguable given how he took a leap this year and still has his prime ahead of him.


“Arguable” seems to be the consensus from nearly everyone here.

I don't think he's close to Matthews, Barkov, Draisaitl, Kucherov. Toews also covers up a lot of his defensive mistakes.

 

[Rengorlex]

Seriously, forget the Norris voting and everything else. Watch the player play and evaluate his quality. Makar has through-the-roof advanced stats, but you don't need to see those to know how good he is.

He's so obviously an all-time talent. No offense to anybody, but getting your head bent on stuff like "well he only got 452 of the 853 Norris votes so he's obviously not that special" is so dumb.

 

[Coffey]

Where as Edmonton fans seem to use dumb awards voted on by the media as the basis for greatness.

Well yea, they are individual trophies that define the individual lol

 

[McJedi]

Well yea, they are individual trophies that define the individual lol

Awarded by the same dudes y’all whine about when they definitively call Kadri to the NYI.

Same guys vote on those dumb awards. I just watched Makar outplay McDavid in the playoffs. That’s more interesting to me than how Luke Fox or Weekes votes on some silly ballot.

 

[Coffey]

Awarded by the same dudes y’all whine about when they definitively call Kadri to the NYI.

Same guys vote on those dumb awards. I just watched Makar outplay McDavid in the playoffs. That’s more interesting to me than how Luke Fox or Weekes votes on some silly ballot.

Ya kept him to 7pts in 4 games. He really shut him down.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

As a Nucks fan I hate the AVS with a passion.

Voted that he is the best player in the league still.

Ya kept him to 7pts in 4 games. He really shut him down.

Outscoring McDavid...

 

[Coffey]

Outscoring McDavid...

Well ya, cause we have nobody to shut down Makar!

And he had 5 pts and a -1 in game 4!
SOME DMAN

 

[J bo Jeans]

Orr did impressive things vs very unimpressive opponents at a time the league simply wasn’t elite or fully professional.

Hockey always been a niche sport but back then it wasn’t even all that international.

Dominating 1960s NHL hockey is no where near as impressive as being elite in 2022.

Amazing player in his era but Orr’s era was a weak one for the sport. Like being great in MLB before black and hispanic players were competing. Babe Ruth dominated weak opponents given the huge number of potential players that weren’t allowed to compete.

in a somewhat similar vein, what Orr did in his day is just not as impressive as being the best against the actual best… which you have in today’s game.

This is all facts and people are mad that their generation of favourite players played in basically a non professional era that was a lot easier to dominate than today. Where the NHL was comprised of 98% Canadian players, players had second jobs in the summer and actually being a fit athlete was not a pre-requisite to playing in the NHL.

Of course its going to be easier to stick out in an era where half the players smoke between periods and have no specialized training for anything let alone even work out during the summer.

Dominating in todays age is dominating against a league of professionals who are paid millions to play hockey. A league of players who've had stickhandling, power skating, shooting coaches since they were kids.

Just like certain F1 teams had amazing cars that dominated for their era you would be lying if you said any F1 car from the 1960's would beat a modern F1 car today.

 

[Miro4Norris]

1. Makar
2.Matthews
3. McDavid
4. MacKinnon
5. Crosby

 

[McJedi]

This is all facts and people are mad that their generation of favourite players played in basically a non professional era that was a lot easier to dominate than today. Where the NHL was comprised of 98% Canadian players, players had second jobs in the summer and actually being a fit athlete was not a pre-requisite to playing in the NHL.

Of course its going to be easier to stick out in an era where half the players smoke between periods and have no specialized training for anything let alone even work out during the summer.

Dominating in todays age is dominating against a league of professionals who are paid millions to play hockey. A league of players who've had stickhandling, power skating, shooting coaches since they were kids.

Just like certain F1 teams had amazing cars that dominated for their era you would be lying if you said any F1 car from the 1960's would beat a modern F1 car today.

Exactly. And Russians now play in the NHL. So do Sweds, Fins, kids from Arizona that lead the NHL in goals… it’s so much more competitive today.

Orr was a star pro destroying a collection of some pros, some minor league level talents and some glorified beer league dudes all wearing NHL sweaters.

It’s not that impressive or easy to compare today’s greats against.

Frankly, it’s too bad Orr didn’t have a chance to show his stuff vs legitimate competition. Not his fault but his exploits in the NHL are massively overrated. Orr’s stats and awards are massively overrated.

 

[bobbyking]

But if Makar has more individual awards than any other defenseman in the history of the league through a players age 23 season, sans Orr, how exactly is he overrated if he is being compared to the all time greats. Obviously, there is still hopefully a long career to go, but when a player has a start to a career like this, they are going to be compared to the best. Happened with Crosby, and happened with McDavid.

Crosby had about 225 points in his first 2 seasons. youngest to win a scoring title in any sport. nowhere near top 3