Is it time to blow the team up and rebuild?

[Kent Nilsson]

the guy is on the decline, i know we dont want to admit that but its true,

by the time his new contract starts he will be a mid pack goalie

Well its not even debatable that he's at least past his peak.

 

[PaulD]

He had a choice to not sign Price. But he signed Price to keep his job, nothing more.

He has no vision.

I mean, I would've signed Price too.. but I wouldn't have traded Subban for Weber, made the Shawful trade, signed Alzner.. but I would've brought Markov and Radulov back. Probably would have made the Drouin deal in that sense.. and I would've developed Galchenyuk as a C, or traded him before his value was gone when I -decided he will never be a C-

Cant argue with any of that.

Unless you are MB, then you argue with 99% of it.

 

[PaulD]

I can just imagine what the non supporters would say if Bergevin decided to trade Price instead of re-sign him. People that evaluate due to frustration of not winning a cup will never be happy with 90% of the moves we make.

You cant imagine ?? Really ??

How about what they have been saying for atleast two years?.........fire the fox hole hobo.

 

[PaulD]

Agreed, the whole point of bringing Drouin in was to be able to have Radulov and add that player to our weak offense, but as usual he failed
No excuses seems to always find excuses

MT and MT took those signs down after collapsing and missing the play offs.

Excuses Galore would actually fit since.

 

[Habs Halifax]

He had a three year stretch where he had no second round picks by virtue of trading them away.
Most people don't "realize" this, though.

Yes this is true. We are going to trade some picks at the trade deadline (it happens and all GM's do this). Lets review these trades and see if trading the 2nd was worth it.

2014: Vanek and 5th for Collberg and 2nd. Vanek was a great acquisition for us that year and many feel it was worth Collberg and the 2nd.

2015: Petry for 2nd and 5th. Petry is re-signed. Imagine our D without him?

2016: Shaw for two 2nd and then offset this with trading Eller for two more 2nd round picks.

Was this bad draft pick asset management? Your point means nothing when you review each situation and what the return was.

 

[Kriss E]

It is a lot different with Price. He is absolutely untradeable now. He's never carried a team in the PO, has injury history, and he's 31 next year on 10.5 mill. For 8 more years. This will become the worst deal in Habs history. And that is saying something.

Completely disagree. I see no reason why he wouldn't be tradable. Sure, not every team will jump at the opportunity, but surely teams desperate for better goalies would.
Would he get full value in return? Probably not, but we would also be ridding ourselves of a big contract. Or maybe we also take in a not so great contract from opposing team but isn't as much.
We could also retain a bit in order to get a better return in the process.

All in all, I do not believe who many consider to be the best goalie in the NHL to be untradable.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I agree that we had no choice to sign Price, I think it was the right move
The problem is when MB and his dumb friends traded PK Subban for She Weber, he sent a message that the time to win in Montreal was now
Since then he hasn't done anything, he signed Radulov last summer
He lost Markov and Radulov, he traded away a top 10 prospect in the league today for Drouin who pretty much will replace Radu's offense
He lost Markov, Emelin and others while signing an overrated Alzner who looks terrible so far and going downhill with still 4 more years left after this one which is only 4 games in!!!
He has plenty of cap space, WOW, what's he going to do with it? He has nothing left to trade, you guys can stop with these McCaron, Juulsen and others. These guys will be waiver players in a year or 2 you watch.

That's my problem with him, since taking over he has no direction. with the team he had when he took over with a younger Price, Subban and Pacioretty + a 3rd overall pick, this team should have been competing for the East and the Cup by now, not fighting for a playoff spot every year and have 9 million of cap space not knowing what to do with it because all of his plans FAILED in the summer

I will admit this off season did not go as planed.

- I would of kept Beaulieu vs Benn (bad move)
- I would of played hardball with Markov who is 39 when this playoffs come around. Markov wanted too much and we had to move on earlier than predicted (good move)
- Alzner was signed for too much term IMO. I like what he brings but 5 years was too much. Problem is we had no leverage as our depth at LD was bad (bad move)
- Radulov. Once Dallas came into the picture, we lost him (not a good or bad move... just reality)
- Drouin for Sergachev (great move!)
- Trading Subban for Weber (very questionable move IMO... did we have to do this?)
- Losing Emelin... who cares!
- McCarron is a long term development prospect. That hasn't changed
- Juulsen is no going to be waiver player in a year or two. Come on man!

A very bad start to the year with a tough schedule = more reason fueling the frustration of us not winning a cup. Sorry, it's not how I evaluate.

 

[Giacomo]

Lindgren is NHL ready. They should trade him to Winipeg for trouba+prospects

 

[Mario Lemieux fan 66]

Yes this is true. We are going to trade some picks at the trade deadline (it happens and all GM's do this). Lets review these trades and see if trading the 2nd was worth it.

2016: Shaw for two 2nd and then offset this with trading Eller for two more 2nd round picks.

Was this bad draft pick asset management? Your point means nothing when you review each situation and what the return was.

Shaw filled no need. We had Danault already in place to replace Eller for cheaper. Signing him for 6 years at 3.9 millions is just Madness. Girard or DeBrincat would look good with the team right now. Terrible trade, signing and assets management.

 

[Habs Halifax]

la dee da

Im sure all of MBs relitives agree with you.

btw...not acquiring a number one center for 6 seasons is not "a move we made"

Signing Price for sure. No brainer. Too bad all the other ingredients that you need to go with a goalie like that (in order to contend) are on other teams.

Show us a list of teams that have acquired a #1C over the last 6 years and how they did it. Seems to be a fair way to discus this or are you not interested because you don't care and prefer to be frustrated and look beyond reality.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Shaw filled no need. We had Danault already in place to replace Eller for cheaper. Signing him for 6 years at 3.9 millions is just Madness. Girard or DeBrincat would look good with the team right now. Terrible trade, signing and assets management.

Shaw did fill a need. Depth on RW and his versatility where he can play LW and C if needed.

 

[Giacomo]

Show us a list of teams that have acquired a #1C over the last 6 years and how they did it. Seems to be a fair way to discus this or are you not interested because you don't care and prefer to be frustrated and look beyond reality.

Kopitar was picked up right after Price

 

[Habs Halifax]

Kopitar was picked up right after Price

Was that within the last 6 years? Once again. Show me teams that have acquired a #1C in the last 6 years and how they did it.

 

[Giacomo]

Kopitar was picked up right after Price

We should have picked up someone in the second round at least once.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Shaw did fill a need. Depth on RW and his versatility where he can play LW and C if needed.

You don't trade two good picks for depth, and then sign it to a 6 year contract. Moreover shaw filled no need for us. When Galchenyuk was tearing it up in his first real try as a first line center, guess who was playing right wing? One Sven Andrighetto. We traded him for a plug who we traded for another plug. There would have been nothing wrong with using Radulov, Gallagher, and Andrighetto as our 3 RW. There was no reason to pay such a high price for such a limited player when we had an answer from within.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You don't trade two good picks for depth, and then sign it to a 6 year contract. Moreover shaw filled no need for us. When Galchenyuk was tearing it up in his first real try as a first line center, guess who was playing right wing? One Sven Andrighetto. We traded him for a plug who we traded for another plug. There would have been nothing wrong with using Radulov, Gallagher, and Andrighetto as our 3 RW. There was no reason to pay such a high price for such a limited player when we had an answer from within.

I will not deny this as a questionable move but we were not the only team trying to acquire Shaw and the 2- 2nd round picks was the value set based on demand. We also traded Eller for 2 more 2nd rounders as well so it was really in the end a Shaw (LW, C, RW) swap for Eller (LW, C). I don't consider this a bad move one way or another. It addressed our need for depth at RW and we needed it a the time.

Ghetto will put up points with the Avs and he will continue to be very bad defensibly. We didn't need this type of player on our roster. We need guys who can win puck battles and Shaw seemed to fit this.

 

[Habs 4 Life]

I will admit this off season did not go as planed.

- I would of kept Beaulieu vs Benn (bad move)
- I would of played hardball with Markov who is 39 when this playoffs come around. Markov wanted too much and we had to move on earlier than predicted (good move)
- Alzner was signed for too much term IMO. I like what he brings but 5 years was too much. Problem is we had no leverage as our depth at LD was bad (bad move)
- Radulov. Once Dallas came into the picture, we lost him (not a good or bad move... just reality)
- Drouin for Sergachev (great move!)
- Trading Subban for Weber (very questionable move IMO... did we have to do this?)
- Losing Emelin... who cares!
- McCarron is a long term development prospect. That hasn't changed
- Juulsen is no going to be waiver player in a year or two. Come on man!

A very bad start to the year with a tough schedule = more reason fueling the frustration of us not winning a cup. Sorry, it's not how I evaluate.

Sorry but that's just a pathetic excuse
We beat Buffalo. We had a day off facing the Caps
Back to back against the Rangers and they had a back to back as well
Day off home opener against a team coming into town having played the night before
Yes let's blame the schedule for Bergerien not doing his job yet having all summer to get things done
Oh and Dallas, well they should have never been in the picture in the first place.

 

[Giacomo]

Was that within the last 6 years? Once again. Show me teams that have acquired a #1C in the last 6 years and how they did it.

Early draft picks is usually only when there found

 

[Captain Mountain]

I will not deny this as a questionable move but we were not the only team trying to acquire Shaw and the 2- 2nd round picks was the value set based on demand. We also traded Eller for 2 more 2nd rounders as well so it was really in the end a Shaw (LW, C, RW) swap for Eller (LW, C). I don't consider this a bad move one way or another. It addressed our need for depth at RW and we needed it a the time.

Ghetto will put up points with the Avs and he will continue to be very bad defensibly. We didn't need this type of player on our roster. We need guys who can win puck battles and Shaw seemed to fit this.

Andrighetto has never been as bad defensively as people seem to think he was/is. But better to trade him for a guy who is bad defensively and also can't score and gets hemmed in his own zone.

 

[CauZuki]

I will admit this off season did not go as planed.

- I would of kept Beaulieu vs Benn (bad move)
- I would of played hardball with Markov who is 39 when this playoffs come around. Markov wanted too much and we had to move on earlier than predicted (good move)
- Alzner was signed for too much term IMO. I like what he brings but 5 years was too much. Problem is we had no leverage as our depth at LD was bad (bad move)
- Radulov. Once Dallas came into the picture, we lost him (not a good or bad move... just reality)
- Drouin for Sergachev (great move!)
- Trading Subban for Weber (very questionable move IMO... did we have to do this?)
- Losing Emelin... who cares!
- McCarron is a long term development prospect. That hasn't changed
- Juulsen is no going to be waiver player in a year or two. Come on man!

A very bad start to the year with a tough schedule = more reason fueling the frustration of us not winning a cup. Sorry, it's not how I evaluate.

Normally when evaluating something it's not just about proving there aren't as many bad things as people believe. What about providing some evidence that Bergevin deserves to keep his job?

What has he done to make us a better team in the playoffs? Why are we seemingly worse today than 5 years ago? Why should anyone give this guy more slack?

 

[NotProkofievian]

I will not deny this as a questionable move but we were not the only team trying to acquire Shaw and the 2- 2nd round picks was the value set based on demand.

We didn't need him.

We also traded Eller for 2 more 2nd rounders as well so it was really in the end a Shaw (LW, C, RW) swap for Eller (LW, C). I don't consider this a bad move one way or another. It addressed our need for depth at RW and we needed it a the time.

It's a silly move even if you look at it like that. Eller and Shaw are both 3rd line players. To make that exchange we traded two good 2nd round picks for 2 picks that will be later in the round, that we have to wait 1 and 2 years to make. It's as if we traded two good picks for two not so good picks. That's a bad move.

Ghetto will put up points with the Avs and he will continue to be very bad defensibly. We didn't need this type of player on our roster. We need guys who can win puck battles and Shaw seemed to fit this.

If you haven't noticed, we need guys who can put the puck in the net. Shaw really does nothing to move the needle in that direction, and we gave up quality assets to get him, when we had someone who can score and traded him for a useless plug.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Sorry but that's just a pathetic excuse
We beat Buffalo. We had a day off facing the Caps
Back to back against the Rangers and they had a back to back as well
Day off home opener against a team coming into town having played the night before
Yes let's blame the schedule for Bergerien not doing his job yet having all summer to get things done
Oh and Dallas, well they should have never been in the picture in the first place.

I was talking about us not having a good off season showed my reasons. I don't think it's pathetic, I call it reality but you are clouded with your frustrations so I understand.

- 3 games on the road (Buf, Was, NYR). Two of them back to back and two of them home openers.
- 2 games at home (Chi, Tor). Two very good NHL teams and likely in the top 10
- 3 western road games (SJ, LA, Ana). We rarely do well on these trips in past years.

Yeah, I certainly would call this a tough schedule to start the year. Is it the reason why we are 1-3? Not sure. But it has an impact no doubt IMO. We will be lucky to be 5-7 or 6-6 by the end of the month. Time will tell. Then we will be able to evaluate with a larger sample size instead of a premature evaluation because it supports the "Bergevin supporters or non supporters". What a ridiculous line in the sand some people have taken

 

[Habs Halifax]

Normally when evaluating something it's not just about proving there aren't as many bad things as people believe. What about providing some evidence that Bergevin deserves to keep his job?

What has he done to make us a better team in the playoffs? Why are we seemingly worse today than 5 years ago? Why should anyone give this guy more slack?

With Bergevin, we went from a bubble playoff team to a legit top 10 NHL team winning 3 division titles in 5 years. You can use the Price card and I don't care. You ask me a question and I answered it. If you don't like reality, that is not my problem.

Now, if we end up missing the playoffs with a relatively healthy roster this year, then yeah, I say this is a major step backwards and we seriously need to look at replacing our GM. Are we at that point? NO, not yet. It's a very long season and lots can happen.

 

[Habs 4 Life]

Was that within the last 6 years? Once again. Show me teams that have acquired a #1C in the last 6 years and how they did it.

Turris is up there, well better than what we have Ottawa in the final 4
Ryan Johansen was traded. SCF
Caps just traded Johanssen, a great center for 2 2nd round picks!!!!!! We traded that for a 3rd /4th line player in Andrew Shaw!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Habs Halifax]

Turris is up there, well better than what we have Ottawa in the final 4
Ryan Johansen was traded. SCF
Caps just traded Johanssen, a great center for 2 2nd round picks!!!!!! We traded that for a 3rd /4th line player in Andrew Shaw!!!!!!!!!!

- Turris was a gamble the Sens took and it paid off. You are correct, this was within our reach as well

- RyJo. Forget about it. We did not have a Jones types to compete in trade negotiations.

- Johanssen. I don't think our 2-2nd's = the Devils 2-2nd's. We likely had to sweeten the deal. But yes, I think we could of acquired him if we felt he was a top 2 center. As far as I can tell, he is playing LW for the Devils. I guess he's not good enough to be a center for their team?

Any more examples?