Is Alex Ovechkin a top 10 player of all time?
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CanadienShark
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- Dec 18, 2012
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Gretzky, Lemiuex, Orr, Howe are obviously there. I have Jagr and Bourque in there too. After that, it becomes tougher. Ovechkin has a legit case, but so do like 10 others.
- Feb 10, 2010
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Top 10 easily. Top 5 is the question.
Ovie is the greatest player of his generation - had the highest peak, leads in points, easily in primary points, while having 50% more goals than any other player (that's not a typo). No player in history has ever had that kind of goal scoring dominance. Ovie also has more Harts than anyone else, more Pearson nominations than any other player, and by far more hardware than any other player (17 major awards to Crosby's 11, and that's generously counting the Smythe that Sid obviously didn't earn).
Setting the all-time NHL goals record in a low scoring era would essentially mean Ovie has lapped the field in goal scoring. He wouldn't just have to be better at it than Gretzky, he'd have to be way better. Like, ~ 30% better.
Outside Howe and Gretzky - and to a far lesser extent Orr and Lemieux - Ovechkin's resume stacks up nicely against all the players from the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s. The key difference is that Ovechkin was playing in an international league and competing with an exponentially larger talent pool, whereas the players from the older decades were only competing against players from one small country, which itself has subsequently doubled in size. If a player's separation from the pack in 1965 is comparable to a player's separation in modern years, there is a solid rational basis for giving the edge to the modern player.
Ovie is the greatest player of his generation - had the highest peak, leads in points, easily in primary points, while having 50% more goals than any other player (that's not a typo). No player in history has ever had that kind of goal scoring dominance. Ovie also has more Harts than anyone else, more Pearson nominations than any other player, and by far more hardware than any other player (17 major awards to Crosby's 11, and that's generously counting the Smythe that Sid obviously didn't earn).
Setting the all-time NHL goals record in a low scoring era would essentially mean Ovie has lapped the field in goal scoring. He wouldn't just have to be better at it than Gretzky, he'd have to be way better. Like, ~ 30% better.
Outside Howe and Gretzky - and to a far lesser extent Orr and Lemieux - Ovechkin's resume stacks up nicely against all the players from the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s. The key difference is that Ovechkin was playing in an international league and competing with an exponentially larger talent pool, whereas the players from the older decades were only competing against players from one small country, which itself has subsequently doubled in size. If a player's separation from the pack in 1965 is comparable to a player's separation in modern years, there is a solid rational basis for giving the edge to the modern player.
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Pretty much how I see it as well.
Top 10 forward for sure by now but there are some great Dmen and goalies all time as well.
I think his transformation from an offensive force to a trigger man early in his career keeps him behind his direct peers Richard and Hull which keeps him out of the Top Ten.
- Aug 12, 2008
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Labeling Ovi a trigger man is the lazy way of putting ovi down on these boards. He does so much more then that but you have to watch the games...…..
sufferer
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Yes, he was the trigger man for the esteemed playmaking duo of Dainius Zubrus and Chris Clark which allowed him to score 50 goals and 100 points in his rookie year.
He became mainly a trigger man after 2010. For the first five years he was Bobby Hull then morphed into Brett Hull.
No, he really doesn't. Predatory hits with no regard for defensive positioning don't impress me.
He, like Richard, Jagr and Hull, will be rated on his offensive exploits.
KoozNetsOff 92
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OV is better than Richard. More rockets, better goal finishes, more harts, more GPG leads, more PPG leads. Considering Richard played in a 6 team league and peaked in the post WWII seasons when the NHL was crap, OV has a better hart and AST record too imo. I don't really care about cups he stacked up on a dynasty in that weak era.
I won't get into OV vs Jagr, but Bobby Hull is interesting. Their regular seasons are similar: OV has 1 more rocket, Hull has more dominant wins. OV has 1 more hart, Hull has more nominations. Hull has 2 more rosses, OV has 1 more PPG win. Hull has 2 more 1st ASTs. Hull has more high end pt finishes. However, considering OV plays in a league with Europeans and Americans and obviously 31 teams instead of 6, I think that evens it out. OV would have even more awards (09 ross & 10 hart immediately come to mind), more ASTs, better pt/goal finishes and more dominant rocket wins if only facing Canadians. His regular season resume would probably be better than Hull's in that scenario but at the moment they are close enough. So playoffs. Each has 1 cup, obviously in Hull's day you only needed 4 wins to make the SCF so that's not exactly a fair comparison. OV's cup is worth more imo. The smythe wasn't awarded when Hull won his cup and it's arguable if he would have won as Pilote had more pts as a Dman and Mikita had 3 less pts but 2 more goals. So who knows, but let's give him the smythe anyway. In his era for playoffs, after removing Howe and Orr (and some guy who only played 7 games), Hull was 1st in GPG and 3rd in PPG.. Exactly the same as OV for his era. And again, give OV the same competition as Hull and he moves up to 2nd in PPG.
So what does Hull have that OV doesn't? Yes there's minor arguments each way, but there's nothing that should make Hull 5th (and a basically consensus top 10) and OV questionable to crack the top 10.
JasonRoseEh
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GreatGonzo
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You’re never impressed by Ovechkin because of your loyalty to Crosby, who’s defense you overrate to no end. It’s safe to say your option means little in anything to do with Ovechkin.
GreatGonzo
Surrounded by Snowflakes
Ya, Ovechkin is ten times the player Brett Hull was. Put their careers side by side after their peaks and your opinion just crumbles...
tacogeoff
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sr edler
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I'm not in any boat here regarding these two players, but this is too silly. Ovi was out-pointed and generally out-played by his own line-mate during the 2018 playoffs. Kuznetsov was tap-dancing all over the ice, zone-entering like a maniac, setting up guys left and right with free candy, scored the series-winning goal against the arch-rivals, and out-pointed Ovi in the finals against Vegas.
Ovi scored 3 more goals than Kuznetsov. If Edmonton won the Cup in 2006 against Carolina should Fernando Pisani have won the Smythe over Pronger? He (Pisani) did score 9 more goals than Pronger after all those playoffs.
The Macho King
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nowhereman
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That goes both ways and the same could be said of your own bias for Ovechkin/against Crosby. In all honesty, most every Crosby vs. Ovechkin thread is just bias-driven mudslinging. It's the same posters going back and forth with the same tired arguments, neither able to really look at things objectively (if that's even possible with hockey).
Anyway, yeah, OV is in my top 10. It's a big mess after the big 4 but he's certainly in the mix with Beliveau, Sid, Hull, Richard, Harvey, Hasek, Jagr and Harvey. That said, I have him closer to #10 than #5.
- Feb 10, 2010
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Who had the primary assist on that goal?
There were three back-breaking late 3rd period or OT game winning goals in that series. The primary points went to:
Ovechkin + Kuznetsov
Ovechkin + Vrana
Ovechkin + Backstrom
See a pattern?
Unlike you, I watched all those games. Ovie was the Caps' best player.
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