Rumor: Interest in Marleau (report: willing to waive NMC for LA, ANA, NYR)

[Alwalys]

Two gold medals tho

but no chrome. mediocre!

 

[Vaasa]

but no chrome. mediocre!

Patty doesn't need chrome to get into Valhalla. He's already been there and is just slacking off as a hockey player since there aren't any good hand-to-hand wars to fight in right now.

 

[OrrNumber4]

no 2nd overall player can be said to be that, that is your personal and wrong bias. when a team drafts 2nd, the player they pick is HOPEFULLY one that will help that team not be the absolute crud of the league. His role literally was all the stuff you discounted above.

Evgeni Malkin, Chris Pronger...

Moreover, it isn't draft position I am talking about (the fact that you think like that is silly).

San Jose has handed Marleau riches and fame. He has been very well paid, has gotten good minutes/responsibility, and has received the adoration of the fans, not to mention a relatively quiet life for an athlete. To whom much is given, much is expected.

Marleau hasn't had an unquestionably strong playoffs in ages. He's always had a series or two where there have been major issues and his patented disappearing act. Since Vancouver in 2011, Marleau hasn't had a series where he was one of the best players on the ice, despite his salary and icetime.

 

[Alwalys]

Moreover, it isn't draft position I am talking about

that's your mistake. patty was not added to a contender. he was a subgenerational cornerstone type player. in some ways because the sharks overachieved after his drafting, he has never had the depth of talent around him that others have, and that has been to the team's detriment. that and several really bad draft busts.

he helped the team to three final-four finishes during his prime. he's 36 now. let's not be unrealistic about things.

pronger was added to a contending team as an impact player, the team that drafted him doesn't even exist anymore. he still required scott niedermayer, getzlaf, perry, macdonald, penner, selanne and a prime giguere to win that cup, after years and years of "choking" in st louis and ultimate chokery in edmonton. he then choked out the rest of his career in philly.

malkin benefits very obviously from crosby and would not have even sniffed a cup without him. they've been choking for most of a decade since.

 

[OrrNumber4]

that's your mistake. patty was not added to a contender. he was a subgenerational cornerstone type player. in some ways because the sharks overachieved after his drafting, he has never had the depth of talent around him that others have, and that has been to the team's detriment. that and several really bad drmentioning

he helped the team to three final-four finishes during his prime. he's 36 now. let's not be unrealistic about things.

pronger was added to a contending team as an impact player, the team that drafted him doesn't even exist anymore. he still required scott niedermayer, getzlaf, perry, macdonald, penner, selanne and a prime giguere to win that cup, after years and years of "choking" in st louis and ultimate chokery in edmonton. he then choked out the rest of his career in philly.

malkin benefits very obviously from crosby and would not have even sniffed a cup without him. they've been choking for most of a decade since.

Chris Pronger's "choking" runs were better than the best Marleau has ever put forth.

WRT team support, Joe Thornton, Dan Boyle, Evgeni Nabakov, and Dany Heatley aren't worth mentioning?

Moreover, are you really claiming that a lack of support excuses Marleau's own miserable performances in many games? Was he in such despair, seeing the lack of talent around him, that he played poorly?

 

[Alwalys]

Chris Pronger's "choking" runs were better than the best Marleau has ever put forth.

still choked. see the folly of the choking card? funny thing is pronger did more of the actual correct definition of choking than marleau ever has.

WRT team support, Joe Thornton, Dan Boyle, Evgeni Nabakov, and Dany Heatley aren't worth mentioning?

They are worth mentioning but you will note that is still 3 standout players less support than pronger had. Perhaps the most important being giguere. Remember in his prime he was a conn smythe winner on the LOSING team. Nabokov was never close to that.

Moreover, are you really claiming that a lack of support excuses Marleau's own miserable performances in many games? Was he in such despair, seeing the lack of talent around him, that he played poorly?

So pronger or malkin have never had bad performances? ********. It happens. A lot, even to the best players. Patty is a cut below either of those guys which is why he is paid less than both of those. Patty has never made superstar dollar because he is not one. Comparing him to superstars is dumb.

 

[Mafoofoo]

We need Patty mostly to model in argyle sweaters for the store catalog. No one else can do that. That's why he gets like 80% of his salary. Use your heads people.

 

[Bizz]

Marleau hasn't had an unquestionably strong playoffs in ages. He's always had a series or two where there have been major issues and his patented disappearing act. Since Vancouver in 2011, Marleau hasn't had a series where he was one of the best players on the ice, despite his salary and icetime.

I haven't seen Marleau give 100% effort over the entirety of a Playoff run since 2007. We should've traded him after his pathetic excuse of an effort in 2008 & 2009. But noooo... "muh home grown talent. muh fan favorite."

In 2009 we could've gotten a sweet package involving one or more young elite prospects or First round picks. Too late now. He's probably worth a 2nd and a mid tier prospect at best.

 

[OrrNumber4]

still choked. see the folly of the choking card? funny thing is pronger did more of the actual correct definition of choking than marleau ever has.



They are worth mentioning but you will note that is still 3 standout players less support than pronger had. Perhaps the most important being giguere. Remember in his prime he was a conn smythe winner on the LOSING team. Nabokov was never close to that.



So pronger or malkin have never had bad performances? ********. It happens. A lot, even to the best players. Patty is a cut below either of those guys which is why he is paid less than both of those. Patty has never made superstar dollar because he is not one. Comparing him to superstars is dumb.

How is Pronger more of a choker? What is your definition?

Nabakov in his prime was a Vezina finalist. He had about 3 to 4 years of Vezina contention. Nabakov between 2008 and 2010 was perfectly comparable to Giguere in his cup year. Also and again, I do not see how a goalie's poor performances excuse a skater's lack of production.

Marleau has had several bad stints of play. Like I said, when was the last time he had a series where he was one of SJs top 2-3 players? Marleau has not earned Malkin money, but he and Pronged have very comparable salaries. For several years, Marleau made in excess of 6.5 million, along with clauses, ice time, the captainship, etc.

 

[OrrNumber4]

I haven't seen Marleau give 100% effort over the entirety of a Playoff run since 2007. We should've traded him after his pathetic excuse of an effort in 2008 & 2009. But noooo... "muh home grown talent. muh fan favorite."

In 2009 we could've gotten a sweet package involving one or more young elite prospects or First round picks. Too late now. He's probably worth a 2nd and a mid tier prospect at best.

I think this is a dangerous line of thinking. Marleau is a hard worker. I cannot say I have seen him slack off more than any other player. Granted, he's not a paragon of relentless hustle, but he's not at all lazy.

It is just that he is easy to shut down and struggles to adapt his game. Offensively, he is a player with a very good shot and great north-south speed. He's not an agitator, a playmaker, or a grinder. He's not going to drive the net or imitate Tomas Holmstrom. He's biased towards a cautious game and does not thrive when he needs to open up.

That attitude needs to change. Maybe what Sutter said about Marleau's arrogance all those years ago wasn't a throwaway line.

 

[hohosaregood]

I haven't seen Marleau give 100% effort over the entirety of a Playoff run since 2007. We should've traded him after his pathetic excuse of an effort in 2008 & 2009. But noooo... "muh home grown talent. muh fan favorite."

In 2009 we could've gotten a sweet package involving one or more young elite prospects or First round picks. Too late now. He's probably worth a 2nd and a mid tier prospect at best.

Man, that 2009 class is looking pretty sweet. Coulda had Palmieri and whoever it was for Marleau and that would be after coming off a terrible year by Patty.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Stuart didn't ask for a trade. He was the "player that wants to live here" guy. DW opened the door and drove him to the airport.

Pretty sure Stuart did ask for a trade after DW told him he wasn't going to be in the top four going forward.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

How is Pronger more of a choker? What is your definition?

Nabakov in his prime was a Vezina finalist. He had about 3 to 4 years of Vezina contention. Nabakov between 2008 and 2010 was perfectly comparable to Giguere in his cup year. Also and again, I do not see how a goalie's poor performances excuse a skater's lack of production.

Marleau has had several bad stints of play. Like I said, when was the last time he had a series where he was one of SJs top 2-3 players? Marleau has not earned Malkin money, but he and Pronged have very comparable salaries. For several years, Marleau made in excess of 6.5 million, along with clauses, ice time, the captainship, etc.

I don't know why you try to frame your Marleau argument with salary comparisons. Especially to those two players. Marleau never really made Malkin or Pronger money. He only had a comparable rate to Pronger for two years.

 

[Gilligans Island]

Pretty sure Stuart did ask for a trade after DW told him he wasn't going to be in the top four going forward.

That's what I recall was reported as well.

 

[LadyStanley]

Stuart didn't ask for a trade. He was the "player that wants to live here" guy. DW opened the door and drove him to the airport.

I thought that was Setoguchi wanting back?


http://blogs.mercurynews.com/purdy/...east-for-a-while-but-come-the-trade-deadline/

Purdy on rumors; doesn't think Marleau will be moved soon (but closer to the trade deadline? ).

 

[magic school bus]

I thought that was Setoguchi wanting back?


http://blogs.mercurynews.com/purdy/...east-for-a-while-but-come-the-trade-deadline/

Purdy on rumors; doesn't think Marleau will be moved soon (but closer to the trade deadline? ).

But Stuart only signed here to be close to his family.

 

[Alwalys]

How is Pronger more of a choker? What is your definition?

Choking is when a team in an otherwise advantageous position loses because of reasons related only to the team's own performance. So a team has to perform below its otherwise objective ability. If a team is not advantageously rostered, or faces objective situations that deplete its advantages, it is not choking. Thus all the juggernaut blues teams pronger led that failed in the playoffs were true chokers. Pronger's status as a superstar contributes to this.

Marleau has not earned Malkin money, but he and Pronged have very comparable salaries. For several years, Marleau made in excess of 6.5 million, along with clauses, ice time, the captainship, etc.

Pronger had a 9.5m superstar contract in his prime, patty never reached that. And his current contract is structured to reduce cap hit but he got actually paid as much as patty's highest contract.

Bottom line is patty is a great player but short of a superstar. Comparing him to true superstars is not valid.

 

[bigwillie]

Every time I open this page I'm expecting a "Confirmed with Link: Marleau to Ducks for 3rd Round Pick" thread to be stickied on top.

Seriously, I always thought Doug Wilson was crazy like a fox, but now he's seemed to have lost it and is just flat out crazy. He seems to me to be the type who would honor Marleau's request out of a little respect, but would also deal him out of a little spite.

 

[WantonAbandon]

I think this is a dangerous line of thinking. Marleau is a hard worker. I cannot say I have seen him slack off more than any other player. Granted, he's not a paragon of relentless hustle, but he's not at all lazy.

It is just that he is easy to shut down and struggles to adapt his game. Offensively, he is a player with a very good shot and great north-south speed. He's not an agitator, a playmaker, or a grinder. He's not going to drive the net or imitate Tomas Holmstrom. He's biased towards a cautious game and does not thrive when he needs to open up.

That attitude needs to change. Maybe what Sutter said about Marleau's arrogance all those years ago wasn't a throwaway line.

Yeah, but you can summarize what you just said by saying: Guys Marleau is not now nor has he ever been the Best player in the world. NBC is not dying for Crosby vs Marleau match ups. Well to that I say touché.

With Marleau you still have a player that is very comparable to Hossa and a shade better than Sharp.

As for drafting, the Sharks aren't getting a high round pick by trading Marleau. Most likely the other assets will be more exciting than the draft pick.

However, with the destinations selected Marleau is nearly impossible to move except maybe to New York during the offseason.

 

[Alwalys]

The possibility that Marleau may make the all-time games played record is instructive. His style of play contributed greatly to that. Hard to fault the guy for one of the longest, most successful careers in history. In fact it could be argued that those who expected otherwise out of him are the actual ones failing. Marleau has provided what he has provided very consistently over a long period of time. That gave anyone who understood that plenty of time to integrate it into the roster.

Instead too much time was spent, as is the case with may fans, wishing patty was something he is not. And that as much as anything else has led to failure (to the extent that the marleau situation is considered failure).

 

[Hangemhigh]

When Marleau was drafted I hoped he would become way better than Nolan or maybe Damphousse. It kind of pissed me off that he wasn't that physical with his size, but I eventually got over it. I enjoyed Sharks hockey alot more after accepting Marleau and "doesn't shoot" Thornton for who they are.

Also, I don't have to spent as much time and money watching playoff games, so that's nice.

 

[SactoShark]

Pretty sure Stuart did ask for a trade after DW told him he wasn't going to be in the top four going forward.

That's what I recall was reported as well.

That was DW's story after he made the play here vs. live here comment, then traded Stuart a few weeks later. I guess you can take him for his word after Stuey went bye bye. I'll take him for his first words. I'm not buying that Stuart, who decided he wanted to come back to San Jose while he was still playing for Detroit to be with his family, suddenly wanted out because of ice time.

Great move regardless.

 

[Led Zappa]

That was DW's story after he made the play here vs. live here comment, then traded Stuart a few weeks later. I guess you can take him for his word after Stuey went bye bye. I'll take him for his first words. I'm not buying that Stuart, who decided he wanted to come back to San Jose while he was still playing for Detroit to be with his family, suddenly wanted out because of ice time.

Great move regardless.

He also said twice that I can remember that he was ready to go after an injury and the coach still kept him out. He was not happy. I am confident he wanted out because of how he was being used.

 

[DarrylshutzSydor]

The possibility that Marleau may make the all-time games played record is instructive. His style of play contributed greatly to that. Hard to fault the guy for one of the longest, most successful careers in history. In fact it could be argued that those who expected otherwise out of him are the actual ones failing. Marleau has provided what he has provided very consistently over a long period of time. That gave anyone who understood that plenty of time to integrate it into the roster.

Instead too much time was spent, as is the case with may fans, wishing patty was something he is not. And that as much as anything else has led to failure (to the extent that the marleau situation is considered failure).

Sorry, but the Sharks AND Marleau are the posterchildren for Chokers. Pronger isn't even in the same stratosphere as the term choker. Marleau's career was successful at one thing, letting down the San Jose Sharks fans.

 

[WTFetus]

That was DW's story after he made the play here vs. live here comment, then traded Stuart a few weeks later. I guess you can take him for his word after Stuey went bye bye. I'll take him for his first words. I'm not buying that Stuart, who decided he wanted to come back to San Jose while he was still playing for Detroit to be with his family, suddenly wanted out because of ice time.

Great move regardless.

That's how I saw it too. Could've been a bit mutual, but the play here vs. live here seemed to definitely be aimed at Stuart at the time, and players like Setoguchi in the past.