Rumor: Interest in Marleau (report: willing to waive NMC for LA, ANA, NYR)

[dwood16]

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/nas151111.html

I've been chatting over at the Blackhawks board. IF Marleau truely wants out and demands a trade, thoughts on this?

Bickell + Shaw + McNeil + 1st for Marleau

I'd do this. I don't have the salaries in front of me though. Shaw and Bickell are very good role players and playoff performers. The first is the main selling point even if it's a late first. Marleau is almost done and that's a high return for him.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/nas151111.html

I've been chatting over at the Blackhawks board. IF Marleau truely wants out and demands a trade, thoughts on this?

Bickell + Shaw + McNeil + 1st for Marleau

I wouldn't be interested personally. Bickell is a pure dump. Shaw is more of the same caliber of player that we already have enough of, imo. I don't think McNeill is going to be anything really special. The 1st is going to be late in all likelihood. There's a lot of quantity and not a lot of quality. It's not horrendous but I think they can do better for Marleau. If they're going to take a cap dump, it needs to be someone that can at least play in the NHL and Bickell is obviously not that at this point.

 

[CrypTic]

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/nas151111.html

I've been chatting over at the Blackhawks board. IF Marleau truely wants out and demands a trade, thoughts on this?

Bickell + Shaw + McNeil + 1st for Marleau

Providing info:

Bickell ($4M for this season and next)

Shaw (24 YO, 2M this season, will be 2nd year of RFA, RFA on expiry at end of this season)

McNeill (22 YO, on ELC, expires at end of season, 863,333 cap hit)

 

[T0uGh C0oki3]

I'd want better pieces if we're taking on Bickell. Shaw + McNeil + a late 1st are pretty meh.

Bickell + Hartman + Pokka + 2nd for Marleau 25 % retained ?

 

[CrypTic]

I wouldn't be interested personally. Bickell is a pure dump. Shaw is more of the same caliber of player that we already have enough of, imo. I don't think McNeill is going to be anything really special. The 1st is going to be late in all likelihood. There's a lot of quantity and not a lot of quality. It's not horrendous but I think they can do better for Marleau. If they're going to take a cap dump, it needs to be someone that can at least play in the NHL and Bickell is obviously not that at this point.

This is the part that bothers me as well. If we weren't near the cap, it would be less of a problem. If you're really excited about McNeill, it could be good but otherwise, it's a late first and OK player + prospect for trading Marleau AND taking on a pure cap dump. If we really HAD to move Marleau and this was the best we could get, I could live with it. But I'd rather keep Marleau.

 

[Vaasa]

Taking Bickell as a cap dump alone should net the Sharks a 1st +. Dude is playing in the AHL and has a $4 mil cap hit. Shaw is nice, but overpaid for a 4th-liner, which is what he would be on the Sharks.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Man. I had no idea Bickell had fallen off that much. Wow.

 

[Hatrick Marleau]

Bickell + Hartman + Pokka + 2nd for Marleau 25 % retained ?

That's better but I wouldn't retain anything if we're taking back Bickell

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I'd be more interested in Chicago's young d-men more than McNeill. I just think the Sharks would be better off getting one there considering their organizational depth right now as opposed to a forward. I'd only consider a forward if this sparks somewhat of a chain reaction up front.

 

[ScottyDont]

I'd be more interested in Chicago's young d-men more than McNeill. I just think the Sharks would be better off getting one there considering their organizational depth right now as opposed to a forward. I'd only consider a forward if this sparks somewhat of a chain reaction up front.

My thoughts on taking Bickell and Shaw is that it'd give us the option of sending Tierney and Goldobin down and getting some better experience for the rest of the year. Bickell didn't have a horrible year last year (though seemingly absent in the PO's). McNeil had a good season last year in the AHL, though slow start this year. A late 1st is better then the 1st we have this year.

 

[CrypTic]

My thoughts on taking Bickell and Shaw is that it'd give us the option of sending Tierney and Goldobin down and getting some better experience for the rest of the year. Bickell didn't have a horrible year last year (though seemingly absent in the PO's). McNeil had a good season last year in the AHL, though slow start this year. A late 1st is better then the 1st we have this year.

I'd also keep Shaw up but why would you play Bickell over Tierney? I'm reserving judgment on Goldobin in the NHL bc IMO he shouldn't have played on the 2nd line, esp with Marleau playing C (when it's been quite a while since he played there) and his biggest flub (not finding the puck quickly enough after it landed) was flukey. He's probably not in the lineup anyway if Smith and Couture are back. Plus, Goodrow or Carpenter are already possibilities.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

My thoughts on taking Bickell and Shaw is that it'd give us the option of sending Tierney and Goldobin down and getting some better experience for the rest of the year. Bickell didn't have a horrible year last year (though seemingly absent in the PO's). McNeil had a good season last year in the AHL, though slow start this year. A late 1st is better then the 1st we have this year.

28 points in the regular season and 5 in 18 playoff games for what he is paid is what I would call horrible. Tierney doesn't need to be sent down. He just needs to work through his struggles. McNeill is not a bad prospect but I think they can do better than him and I think they can do better than a 28-30th overall pick.

It also depends on how you see this impacting the team. Do you go for futures or do you go for things that will do what it can to replace what is being lost? In either case, Bickell, Shaw, McNeill, and a 1st from Chicago don't really do that on its own. If we're talking about sending someone like Goldobin and Tierney down, where does that put someone like McNeill? I don't think he has the tools needed to be a 2nd line player in the NHL and I don't think this team needs more 3rd line caliber players.

 

[ScottyDont]

28 points in the regular season and 5 in 18 playoff games for what he is paid is what I would call horrible. Tierney doesn't need to be sent down. He just needs to work through his struggles. McNeill is not a bad prospect but I think they can do better than him and I think they can do better than a 28-30th overall pick.

Ok, I guess when I said horrible, I meant that he shouldn't be banished to the AHL horrible. For what he's paid? Ok horrible. I think him being in the AHL is more about cap savings then anything else.

Assuming Marleau wants out, he's going to want to go to a contender. Chicago is one of the few teams in the league that can be a guaranteed contender. McNeil isn't the best, and a late first isn't the best, but with a NMC, it could be worse.

It also depends on how you see this impacting the team.

Trade Wingels, bring in McNeil, ???, profit.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Ok, I guess when I said horrible, I meant that he shouldn't be banished to the AHL horrible. For what he's paid? Ok horrible. I think him being in the AHL is more about cap savings then anything else.

Assuming Marleau wants out, he's going to want to go to a contender. Chicago is one of the few teams in the league that can be a guaranteed contender. McNeil isn't the best, and a late first isn't the best, but with a NMC, it could be worse.



Trade Wingels, bring in McNeil, ???, profit.

Which should speak volumes that Chicago would assign him to the AHL to save less than a mil. If Chicago is involved considering the rumors, Nashville and Anaheim would both be involved and I think both could give a better offer than that proposal.

 

[CrypTic]

Ok, I guess when I said horrible, I meant that he shouldn't be banished to the AHL horrible. For what he's paid? Ok horrible. I think him being in the AHL is more about cap savings then anything else.

Assuming Marleau wants out, he's going to want to go to a contender. Chicago is one of the few teams in the league that can be a guaranteed contender. McNeil isn't the best, and a late first isn't the best, but with a NMC, it could be worse.



Trade Wingels, bring in McNeil, ???, profit.

You don't save that much in cap by sending someone to the AHL. You get cap relief of $950k less whatever you pay the player who replaces Bickell. The Sharks would have the same problem. Basically, you're eating the entire $4M less possibly a few hundred thousand $$ (at best).

The late first rounder kind of offsets the Bickell salary dump so I wouldn't count that as part of the return for Marleau. From what I understand, McNeill isn't doing well in the AHL and wouldn't even be the first call-up on the Hawks or probably the Sharks. So why would you replace Wingels with him? Wingels isn't our worst F.

 

[ScottyDont]

So why would you replace Wingels with him? Wingels isn't our worst F.

I don't think Wingels is our worst F, I think he's the most expendable and best trade bait.

 

[CrypTic]

I don't think Wingels is our worst F, I think he's the most expendable and best trade bait.

That makes sense. But what does that have to do with McNeill? That was the part I didn't understand. As it stands now, McNeill isn't going to replace anyone on the Sharks. He most likely wouldn't be the top winger (or converted C) for call ups from the AHL.

Also, wrt to the earlier post, we don't have to trade Marleau even if he wants out. If he really wants out (and that's one of the rumors but it's just a rumor), I hope that DW tries hard to find a good deal for Marleau and for the Sharks. But if that's not possible, either Marleau will need to expand his list of teams he'd accept a trade to, circumstances will have to change so that some team on his list makes an acceptable offer, or else he won't be traded.

 

[Hatrick Marleau]

I think Nashville or Tampa would be our best partners for trading Marleau.

 

[T0uGh C0oki3]

I think Nashville or Tampa would be our best partners for trading Marleau.

Marleau for Erne +

 

[Groo]

Marleau for Erne +

I like it so far.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

If Marleau does not expand his list from those 3 teams, I say we keep him. We cannot afford to trade a player like him considering how we are a border-line playoff team to begin with. More so, if his return sucks (which will be the case if LA, ANA and NYR are our only options).

 

[Led Zappa]

If Marleau does not expand his list from those 3 teams, I say we keep him. We cannot afford to trade a player like him considering how we are a border-line playoff team to begin with. More so, if his return sucks (which will be the case if LA, ANA and NYR are our only options).

That's just an opening move. Now that he's made it known to DW that he's open to being moved DW can come to him with offers. Prior to that DW said he would not ask them. Even if you don't believe DW never asked them, as I don't, I still don't think he would continually ask them after they said no. Now he can.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

That's just an opening move. Now that he's made it known to DW that he's open to being moved DW can come to him with offers. Prior to that DW said he would not ask them. Even if you don't believe DW never asked them, as I don't, I still don't think he would continually ask them after they said no. Now he can.

Yep. I would not blame Marleau for not going to 'any' team just like I would not blame DW for holding on to Patty till he gets a return that is good for the team.

 

[DarrylshutzSydor]

You don't save that much in cap by sending someone to the AHL. You get cap relief of $950k less whatever you pay the player who replaces Bickell. The Sharks would have the same problem. Basically, you're eating the entire $4M less possibly a few hundred thousand $$ (at best).

The late first rounder kind of offsets the Bickell salary dump so I wouldn't count that as part of the return for Marleau. From what I understand, McNeill isn't doing well in the AHL and wouldn't even be the first call-up on the Hawks or probably the Sharks. So why would you replace Wingels with him? Wingels isn't our worst F.

I wasn't aware that ANY of a players salary is counted towards the Cap if he is sent to the minors......Is this true?

 

[CrypTic]

I wasn't aware that ANY of a players salary is counted towards the Cap if he is sent to the minors......Is this true?

Yes. I don't have the section of the CBA to quote but here's a summary from Hockey's Cap:

What is a Buried Contract?
Teams do not receive full cap relief when a player on a one-way NHL contract is reassigned to the American Hockey League, or is loaned to a team in another professional league.

The players salary cap hit, minus the sum of the minimum NHL salary for the respective season and $375,000, still counts towards the team’s salary cap total.

The cap hit relief is therefore equal to the minimum salary of the respective season + $375,000:

2014-15: $550,000 + $375,000 = $925,000
2015-16: $575,000 + $375,000 = $950,000
2016-17: $575,000 + $375,000 = $950,000
2017-18: $650,000 + $375,000 = $1,025,000
2018-19: $650,000 + $375,000 = $1,025,000
2019-20: $700,000 + $375,000 = $1,075,000
2020-21: $700,000 + $375,000 = $1,075,000
2021-22: $750,000 + $375,000 = $1,125,000



https://www.hockeyscap.com/faq#buried