In Defense of Chiarelli

[TL12]

Canucks fan here.

In terms of value for 2 players, you guys got bent over and ****ed all night long.

BUT.

What Larsson can be? He can be your #1 as he develops, and honestly in terms of a teams need, when your core matures just a bit and enters their prime, you have a chance of getting a GREAT D core to match with your still stacked FWD's.

Today feels like a dark day, but I feel like you guys will be a legitimate threat as early as this season. Playoffs? I'd put money you guys make it in.

 

[Niet]

It's a defenseman world and we're all just living in it. I think we're seeing just how the league values forwards, and wingers in particular, in contrast with defensemen. I was frustrated with the trade at first, but it's becoming more clear that you simply aren't getting a first pairing defenseman without giving up something substantial.

 

[redgrant]

Larsson averaged 22:31 time on ice per game last year, and just under 21 minutes the year before (with substantially better numbers).

The fact that Chia bit does not mean this was a proper evaluation of Hall's value.

So you acknowledge hes 22 minutes on NJD. Hes easily 25 minutes here and against the toughest competition with majority dzone starts.

Like Chia said hes not a sexy dman but will make this team better.

I still havent heard what trade proponents of KEEP HALL wanted. Hamonic Subban were all non starters.

What did you want RNH for Dumba?

 

[Mc5RingsAndABeer]

I'm not saying the Oilers were bad because of Hall. I said the Oilers were bad with Hall anyways so how could we possibly get worse with Larsson?

It was the inevitable that we had to make a trade for defence that we were going to lose value-vise. I always believed that but I didn't expect it to feel this bad. However, I do understand it's for the better.

We could easily get worse with Larsson. Hall was the second best player on the Oilers after McDavid.

I was fine losing value, but this was horrific. The fact that another GM said he would've offered more is just more proof.

 

[Draiskull]

Isles said they wouldn't trade Hamonic for him.

He didn't get enough but I think that he got the best he could.

Hall isn't worth as much as people might think he is.

It was reported that there was an offer from NYI on the table but Chia wanted Larsson instead.

everyone loves Hamonic's contract but Larsson makes only 300K more and is signed a year longer.

Hamonic has been talked about all season in rumors and Larsson has been under the radar forever.. IMO the difference between the 2 isnt that much.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

We could easily get worse with Larsson. Hall was the second best player on the Oilers after McDavid.

I was fine losing value, but this was horrific. The fact that another GM said he would've offered more is just more proof.

And look where the Oilers finished last year.

The Oilers need to upgrade their league worst defense. Yes it sacrifices some scoring up front but defense is worth so much right now.

 

[Draiskull]

We could easily get worse with Larsson. Hall was the second best player on the Oilers after McDavid.

I was fine losing value, but this was horrific. The fact that another GM said he would've offered more is just more proof.

prove this FACT of yours.. who was the Dman this GM was going to offer?

 

[redgrant]

We could easily get worse with Larsson. Hall was the second best player on the Oilers after McDavid.

I was fine losing value, but this was horrific. The fact that another GM said he would've offered more is just more proof.

Do you have proof that another GM said theyd offer more and whats the prospective package?

Chia noted how hard he looked and this was the best deal. A lot of Hall fans cant accept that his value isnt Hall for Faulk straight up.

 

[redgrant]

It was reported that there was an offer from NYI on the table but Chia wanted Larsson instead.

everyone loves Hamonic's contract but Larsson makes only 300K more and is signed a year longer.

Hamonic has been talked about all season in rumors and Larsson has been under the radar forever.. IMO the difference between the 2 isnt that much.

Hamonic wouldnt even have the hype if he didnt request a trade. Thats the only reason teams like Edmonton got excited. Oh boy someone wants to leave this might solve our problems without much pain....

No in real life you gotta give something to get something.

 

[01LC4N]

People are as per usual

Overrating Hall coming off back to back dissapointing seasons.

Underrating Larsson who's a legit top pair right shot D with huge upside still

And underestimating the impact of a culture change. You ship out the face of the losing culture and division in the dressing room and bring in winning vets like Lucic and Demers it has a massive impact. Huge wake up call for Eberle and Nuge.

This^

The OP stated some valid points, but didn't go far enough, in my opinion. Taylor Hall was the “Alpha†on this team, and the rest of the “core†players followed his lead. When McDavid went down with an injury, Taylor Hall picked up his game and carried the team. Dynamics changed again, when Connor came back. Are some hockey players prone to sulking, if they are not the centre of attention? Maybe.

I believe McDavid backed off, after coming back from injury, as not to show up Taylor. The same with the rest of the “core†players. I think moving forward, Conner McDavid will be a more dominate player, now that the “Alpha†has been moved out. This is now Connor's team. The rest of the “core†now knows that, if they can trade Taylor, no one is safe (except probably McDavid). I also believe Yakupov was ostracized early, for not falling in line with the pecking order, which stunted his growth with the team. Coaches are just as much to blame for this, because they are unwilling to change the dynamics in the room. They give the Alpha to much freedom, hoping the rest of the team “will follow a leaderâ€. My hope is the remaining players, here for opening night, work harder as a team, because there is a change in dynamics.

We may have lost the trade in value, but the dynamics on this team had to change. Of course this is just my opinion.

 

[RattsSSV]

So you acknowledge hes 22 minutes on NJD. Hes easily 25 minutes here and against the toughest competition with majority dzone starts.

Don't count your chickens till they hatch.

Like Chia said hes not a sexy dman but will make this team better.

Chia could trade McDavid for one of the best dmen in league + and would have made the team better, doesn't mean it's right.

I still havent heard what trade proponents of KEEP HALL wanted. Hamonic Subban were all non starters.

What did you want RNH for Dumba?

Maybe because we don't answer to you?

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Don't count your chickens till they hatch.


Chia could trade McDavid for one of the best dmen in league + and would have made the team better, doesn't mean it's right.



Maybe because we don't answer to you?

Isn't improving the team kinda the point?

 

[RattsSSV]

Isn't improving the team kinda the point?

Yes, but my crystal ball doesn't get as good of reception as ops.

I'm a doubter until I see it happen, and even still we got bent over big time.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Yes, but my crystal ball doesn't get as good of reception as ops.

I'm a doubter until I see it happen, and even still we got bent over big time.

Fair enough but Chiarelli had to improve the defense and this was likely the best way.

 

[redgrant]

Don't count your chickens till they hatch.


Chia could trade McDavid for one of the best dmen in league + and would have made the team better, doesn't mean it's right.



Maybe because we don't answer to you?

You seem pretty sure he's a failure before he's even gotten his Jersey. Maybe you shouldn't count your chickens before they hatch.

Regarding McDavid you see the return for a 1st line winger like hall. Centres like McDavid are worth their weight in gold.

Of course you don't answer to me but I find it funny guys like you are critiquing the deal but don't offer any alternatives. As I said it's a fantasy that there was some Faulk for hall nhl 2016 fantasy on the table.

 

[redgrant]

Yes, but my crystal ball doesn't get as good of reception as ops.

I'm a doubter until I see it happen, and even still we got bent over big time.

What crystal ball did I use? I said its factual that this team is not a playoff team with hall that's a fact.

Time will tell how Larsson pans out. I like that toughest minutes will be handled by him.

 

[RattsSSV]

You seem pretty sure he's a failure before he's even gotten his Jersey. Maybe you shouldn't count your chickens before they hatch..

Guess you missed this:

I agree he's definitely talented and there is a good chance his point production increases due to the increase in offensive talent on the Oilers, however not only do I fear the loss of Hall is going to sharply affect Draisaitl's game, but also the number of points the team produces.

 

[redgrant]

Guess you missed this:

I think the logic is that Lucic can make up 70% offense of hall and add other intangibles hall didn't have.

At the same time Larsson isn't here for offense per Chia. Time will tell if this team gets better defensively.

 

[RattsSSV]

I think the logic is that Lucic can make up 70% offense of hall and add other intangibles hall didn't have.

At the same time Larsson isn't here for offense per Chia. Time will tell if this team gets better defensively.

Personally I'm not a big fan of Lucic, but if his contract and length are reasonable he would add another dimension to the left wing. His speed is a concern though.

Cheers man.

 

[dookers9]

No you are correct.

Hes a #2 RHD with #1 potential. Big D seem to take longer to develop.

Look at how long people crapped on Hedman for.

I'll be patient with Larsson but I hope he understands the environment hes coming to

Totally. I get the fan response...Hall was a big favourite and was a key cog in "the dream".

But now we have a 23 yr old who'd had his best year by all accounts, coming to a fan base that may well have very little patience. These scenarios often don't go so hot.

All that said, as an aside, I'm pleased to see that Hall is disappointed by the move - it's been too common the story over the years that players are more than happy to leave. I'd have loved to see Hall find success here. I wish him well.

 

[PumpkinBombX]

I honestly don't care who they trade as long as they make the playoffs.

I bet if they made zero other changes our goals for would stay the same (likely improve with a full season of McDavid) and goals against go down.

There is only so many minutes and so much puck to go around.

 

[Ritchie Valens]

I get the knee-jerk reactions of the majority of the fan base wanting Chia's head on a stick. Maybe this has been mentioned, maybe not...but do we really think he didn't get Katz's and Nicholson's blessing on this trade first? Hall merchandise (jersey's, t-shirts, etc.) was a big money maker for Katz. I'd say both gave Chiarelli his full support and blessing on this, which makes me think even more Lucic is all but officially an Oiler.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I cheer for the logo on the front first and foremost. Right now this trade looks like sweaty ass on a hot day in the desert. Only time will tell who "wins" this trade...who knows, there may not be a winner and it turns into a hockey trade. As it stands now, NJ needed scoring the same way Edmonton needs defense.

For now, I'll withhold judgement until opening night's roster.

*Imagine if there was internet (specifically HF) and social media back in 1988. Gino Reda tweets out "Hearing L.A. and the Oilers are closing in on a blockbuster. Believed #TheGreatOne is L.A. bound.

 

[Mr Positive]

I wonder who NJ will bring in to replace Larsson? Hamhuis maybe. Not a RHD though, and with so few D hitting UFA they might not get anyone really, and they're already low in the standings. They will be praying that Seversen is as good as Larsson, and that's a bad bet. I don't think that we would find many Devils fans against this trade since they won the trade, but you have to wonder. They could have kept Larsson and just signed one of the many UFA wingers available this offseason. Boedker, Okposo, Eriksson, Lucic, Perron, Hudler. It's pretty stacked for wingers this year. They aren't as good as Hall, but building your team is the most important thing. Them trading Larsson was a much bigger deal than if we traded Klefbom for instance.

Meanwhile we will have no effort to replace Hall. Not his skills mind you, but his spot in the lineup. We could sign Lucic, but we don't even need to.

Maybe the Devils have their replacement lined up, but I fear they don't, and that this was a knee jerk trade of opportunity. I'm a big fan of Hall's, so I hope his new team does well. I have no desire to see him do badly just so our GM looks good.

 

[Replacement*]

I think the logic is that Lucic can make up 70% offense of hall and add other intangibles hall didn't have.

At the same time Larsson isn't here for offense per Chia. Time will tell if this team gets better defensively.

The trouble with this is it misses that Hall really worked well with Draisaitl and I don't see anybody, certainly not Lucic, doing that much with Drais game. Drai Hall worked so well because Hall could front run and Drai could hit him with stuff. Drai is going to be waiting for heavy ol Lucic to lumber up the ice. I don't see that working the same way.

Realistically we lost Hall and Drai production here in one deal. Hall was near perfect for Drai.

 

[MessierII]

The trouble with this is it misses that Hall really worked well with Draisaitl and I don't see anybody, certainly not Lucic, doing that much with Drais game. Drai Hall worked so well because Hall could front run and Drai could hit him with stuff. Drai is going to be waiting for heavy ol Lucic to lumber up the ice. I don't see that working the same way.

Realistically we lost Hall and Drai production here in one deal. Hall was near perfect for Drai.

You know what will help Drai and everyone's game? Being able to break out of the D zone.