Post-Game Talk: I don't remember this feeling

hyduK

Registered User
Feb 21, 2009
2,593
584
Guys, I'm not saying we won because this came in the mail about 45 minutes before the puck drop:

148kdh2.jpg


But we won because this came in the mail 45 minutes before the puck drop. :nod:

(Haha - thanks, Flashy!)

ill be rocking my datsyuk winter classic jersey for the first time at the game on saturday...so hopefully i can contribute to this becoming a trend.
 

ElysiumAB

Registered User
Sep 12, 2013
5,912
5,567
I was at the game, Alfie in OT was awesome.

One thing that stood out, nearly EVERY time Cleary was put on the ice was an offensive zone faceoff. Like he's a Sedin. I just don't understand the logic of putting the worst offensive player on the team on an offensive zone faceoff. Several were after TV timeouts, so no excuse of other lines being tired.
 

Zetterberg4Captain

Registered User
Aug 11, 2009
13,832
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Detroit
tootoo plays and we win

we didnt win because of toots that much is clear but we do play with more confidence when he is in there.

maybe zetts and dats dont like hitting in the game so dont get anything from big hits but the kids do, alffie does and the fans do

dump cleary, keep toots. play him 8mins a game and give clearys minutes to the skilled kids

let miller, sheahan and toots play 4th line to create energy and momentum
 

Big Poppa Puck

HF's Villain
Dec 8, 2009
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Tootoo provides so much energy when he's in there. He's more than just a goon or a useless fighter.

He forechecks aggressively too. It's a shame he can't PK or he'd have so much more value.
 

NyquistIsMyGod*

Guest
Tootoo provides so much energy when he's in there. He's more than just a goon or a useless fighter.

He forechecks aggressively too. It's a shame he can't PK or he'd have so much more value.

Forechecks aggressively but the puck generally gets out. He lays a big hit, the defender has already fed the puck off to the wing. I really like him on the team though. I think many are underrating how awesome his last season with Nashville was. He might have been around 35 points.
 

Vladdy84

L-O-Y-A-L-T-Y
Dec 1, 2011
10,675
12
Farmington
tootoo plays and we win

we didnt win because of toots that much is clear but we do play with more confidence when he is in there.

maybe zetts and dats dont like hitting in the game so dont get anything from big hits but the kids do, alffie does and the fans do

dump cleary, keep toots. play him 8mins a game and give clearys minutes to the skilled kids

let miller, sheahan and toots play 4th line to create energy and momentum

What angered me most was that last game Babs rolled 4 lines. Toots comes in and the 4th line barely plays.
 

alfie follower

Registered User
Oct 16, 2013
1,550
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ottawa
Alfie...lol... 2 goals, an assist off his shot off a skate, and a goal called back.... Not a bad night for the old guy.... keep on rockin Alf
 

NyquistIsMyGod*

Guest
Alfie...lol... 2 goals, an assist off his shot off a skate, and a goal called back.... Not a bad night for the old guy.... keep on rockin Alf

I think he's great, but he does go invisible 5 on 5 with the wrong linemates.
 

ashenhigh

Registered User
Aug 27, 2008
1,960
1
Los Angeles
tootoo plays and we win

we didnt win because of toots that much is clear but we do play with more confidence when he is in there.

maybe zetts and dats dont like hitting in the game so dont get anything from big hits but the kids do, alffie does and the fans do

dump cleary, keep toots. play him 8mins a game and give clearys minutes to the skilled kids

let miller, sheahan and toots play 4th line to create energy and momentum

too much sense!
 

JPE123

Registered User
Jan 23, 2013
3,153
10
Tootoo provides so much energy when he's in there. He's more than just a goon or a useless fighter.

He forechecks aggressively too. It's a shame he can't PK or he'd have so much more value.

Tootoo is a disruptive force on the ice. He makes the opposition do things they don't want to do. We need a guy like this. Especially on a team that seems to covet a Daniel cleary- Tootoo has multiples of value opposed to Cleary
 

FlashyG

Registered User
Dec 15, 2011
4,624
38
Toronto
Tootoo is a disruptive force on the ice. He makes the opposition do things they don't want to do. We need a guy like this. Especially on a team that seems to covet a Daniel cleary- Tootoo has multiples of value opposed to Cleary

I'm not sure how disruptive he was last night, he spent the vast majority of it nailed to the bench.

Karen Newman spends more time on the ice singing the anthems then Tootoo does during the game.

I think the only thing all Wings fans agree on is that Cleary shouldn't be one, but personally I don't think Tootoo is the guy who will or should be taking his roster spot. Cleary is a guy that Babcock moves up and down the line-up and I don't think Tootoo would work anywhere but in the bottom 6. I'd rather one of the kids play in that role when everyone is healthy
 

Vladdy84

L-O-Y-A-L-T-Y
Dec 1, 2011
10,675
12
Farmington
I'm not sure how disruptive he was last night, he spent the vast majority of it nailed to the bench.

Karen Newman spends more time on the ice singing the anthems then Tootoo does during the game.

I think the only thing all Wings fans agree on is that Cleary shouldn't be one, but personally I don't think Tootoo is the guy who will or should be taking his roster spot. Cleary is a guy that Babcock moves up and down the line-up and I don't think Tootoo would work anywhere but in the bottom 6. I'd rather one of the kids play in that role when everyone is healthy

That's because Babcock is... well whatever. Cleary doesn't work ANYWHERE but the 4th line playing with 2 fast players 6-7 minutes a night. I still want the answer to what Cleary does well. Doesn't play his position properly. Takes penalties. Turns the puck over. Loses battles. He backchecks hard. That's it. Toots can shoot, skate, pass and hit better than Cleary.
 

The Zetterberg Era

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Nov 8, 2011
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That's because Babcock is... well whatever. Cleary doesn't work ANYWHERE but the 4th line playing with 2 fast players 6-7 minutes a night. I still want the answer to what Cleary does well. Doesn't play his position properly. Takes penalties. Turns the puck over. Loses battles. He backchecks hard. That's it. Toots can shoot, skate, pass and hit better than Cleary.

The other things you wrote are really hard to prove in that last sentence. I don't think he has a better shot, in fact as pointed out yesterday Tootoo has been a miserable goal scorer at every level of professional hockey. He isn't a very good passer either, but he does get the puck out which is better than some of our guys on that wall, but it is generally a turnover floated to the other D-man that isn't trying to seal him.

We will see he had a decent game last night even though he hardly played. I liked his energy and discipline, but he still sits behind a lot of guys in the organization for me, as does Cleary.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,243
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The other things you wrote are really hard to prove in that last sentence. I don't think he has a better shot, in fact as pointed out yesterday Tootoo has been a miserable goal scorer at every level of professional hockey. He isn't a very good passer either, but he does get the puck out which is better than some of our guys on that wall, but it is generally a turnover floated to the other D-man that isn't trying to seal him.

We will see he had a decent game last night even though he hardly played. I liked his energy and discipline, but he still sits behind a lot of guys in the organization for me, as does Cleary.

But he's relating all of those things specifically to Dan Cleary. Who at this stage in his career, is awful at every single facet of hockey. Except supposedly the mental and character portions.

Clearys shot never gets up, he loses the puck more than just about anybody, we all know he can't skate, and his balance is terrible. So yes, tootoo is better than Cleary in all those areas. Better than other guys on the team? No. But Cleary is the worst forward on the team.
 

FlashyG

Registered User
Dec 15, 2011
4,624
38
Toronto
That's because Babcock is... well whatever. Cleary doesn't work ANYWHERE but the 4th line playing with 2 fast players 6-7 minutes a night. I still want the answer to what Cleary does well. Doesn't play his position properly. Takes penalties. Turns the puck over. Loses battles. He backchecks hard. That's it. Toots can shoot, skate, pass and hit better than Cleary.

I think the difference between Cleary and Tootoo comes down to personal preference.

They each have skills that the other does not.

Cleary has more offensive upside although he hasn't shown much of it the past few years. (better shot, better at screening goalies, and deflecting pucks etc), He's better positioned IMO, slightly better on the forecheck and better in the defensive end. He does take way to many penalties though, and some nights seems to have trouble keeping the puck on his stick and staying upright on his skates.

Tootoo is a much better skater, a more frequent, and a harder hitter. He also provides a physical edge that the wings lack completely. He also often finds himself out of position chasing those big hits, and as others have pointed out those big hits don't usually prevent the opposition from moving the puck. His biggest asset over Cleary IMO though is that his speed tends to draw penalties while Cleary's lack of speed leads to him taking them.

At the end of the day though I think when healthy neither one of them is in the line-up.
 

The Zetterberg Era

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But he's relating all of those things specifically to Dan Cleary. Who at this stage in his career, is awful at every single facet of hockey. Except supposedly the mental and character portions.

Clearys shot never gets up, he loses the puck more than just about anybody, we all know he can't skate, and his balance is terrible. So yes, tootoo is better than Cleary in all those areas. Better than other guys on the team? No. But Cleary is the worst forward on the team.

Could be I will still say Cleary's shot is better than Tootoo's shot right now, you know why even as we have bemoaned Dan Cleary for a while. I don't want him in the lineup, but his three goals in 36 games this season matches Tootoo's entire Wings total. Even since his decline after the 2010-11 season Cleary has nearly half of Tootoo's career total in goals. Tootoo hasn't been an efficient goal scorer since junior, he doesn't have a very good shot and the biggest part of his only high point season was basically the huge spike in assists.

If we want to talk about the fourth line guy with a decent shot that seems to have no luck with it, that is Eaves. You can also see this at the AHL level like how Eaves scores there, Tootoo has one goal in 12 games and it was on an odd man rush tap in. That is on the best offensive team in the AHL one that scores at will on the opposition and still he struggles offensively especially in the goal scoring department on that level. A large part of that is his shot isn't very good, when it's hard it's completely inaccurate and off target.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,243
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Could be I will still say Cleary's shot is better than Tootoo's shot right now, you know why even as we have bemoaned Dan Cleary for a while. I don't want him in the lineup, but his three goals in 36 games this season matches Tootoo's entire Wings total. Even since his decline after the 2010-11 season Cleary has nearly half of Tootoo's career total in goals. Tootoo hasn't been an efficient goal scorer since junior, he doesn't have a very good shot and the biggest part of his only high point season was basically the huge spike in assists.

If we want to talk about the fourth line guy with a decent shot that seems to have no luck with it, that is Eaves. You can also see this at the AHL level like how Eaves scores there, Tootoo has one goal in 12 games and it was on an odd man rush tap in. That is on the best offensive team in the AHL one that scores at will on the opposition and still he struggles offensively especially in the goal scoring department on that level. A large part of that is his shot isn't very good, when it's hard it's completely inaccurate and off target.

C'mon man.

Let's talk about those 3 goals for a sec. Empty netter, open net, open net. Not like any of his goals are a result of him having a good shot. Actually his goals could be scored by anyone on the team.

Hes got mostly phantom assists and bogus goals, if we're being 100% real.
 

The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
Nov 8, 2011
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C'mon man.

Let's talk about those 3 goals for a sec. Empty netter, open net, open net. Not like any of his goals are a result of him having a good shot. Actually his goals could be scored by anyone on the team.

Hes got mostly phantom assists and bogus goals, if we're being 100% real.

Start telling me when Tootoo has scored an impressive goal?

Something about Cleary that bothers me is he has scored two of his three since they started filming and I don't think that is an accident.

I don't think either should be in the ideal lineup. But Tootoo is not a goal scorer, he is good for around 7 goals during an a full 82 game season.

.091 Goals Per game at the NHL level
.21 Goals per game at the AHL level

The guy doesn't have a good shot and he won't score goals. Make the argument on skating and hitting, but while Tootoo isn't an offensive black-hole, he doesn't provide much offensive skill. So if you want to mention his tools in any form of argument it opens up the point that he has never produced much of substance, outside of a complete statistical anomaly of a season with 24 assists exactly double the amount he had in his next best season.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,243
14,753
Start telling me when Tootoo has scored an impressive goal?

Something about Cleary that bothers me is he has scored two of his three since they started filming and I don't think that is an accident.

I don't think either should be in the ideal lineup. But Tootoo is not a goal scorer, he is good for around 7 goals during an a full 82 game season.

.091 Goals Per game at the NHL level
.21 Goals per game at the AHL level

The guy doesn't have a good shot and he won't score goals. Make the argument on skating and hitting, but while Tootoo isn't an offensive black-hole, he doesn't provide much offensive skill. So if you want to mention his tools in any form of argument it opens up the point that he has never produced much of substance, outside of a complete statistical anomaly of a season with 24 assists exactly double the amount he had in his next best season.

Cleary gets every opportunity in the world, worked into the pp, and bumped up the lineup regularly. Even though he deserves none of it. Gets opportunities with elite linemates tootoo never gets.

Can't even compare the two when their opportunities are so night and day different. If tootoo got Clearys opportunist I guarantee he could match the production. Because anyone in the league prob could with how Cleary gets spoon fed with line mates and empty nets.
 

InjuredChoker

Registered User
Dec 25, 2011
31,402
345
LTIR or golf course
Start telling me when Tootoo has scored an impressive goal?

Something about Cleary that bothers me is he has scored two of his three since they started filming and I don't think that is an accident.

I don't think either should be in the ideal lineup. But Tootoo is not a goal scorer, he is good for around 7 goals during an a full 82 game season.

.091 Goals Per game at the NHL level
.21 Goals per game at the AHL level

The guy doesn't have a good shot and he won't score goals. Make the argument on skating and hitting, but while Tootoo isn't an offensive black-hole, he doesn't provide much offensive skill. So if you want to mention his tools in any form of argument it opens up the point that he has never produced much of substance, outside of a complete statistical anomaly of a season with 24 assists exactly double the amount he had in his next best season.

to be fair for tootoo, he produced at the same points per minute pace that year as he did his other years with nashville. he just got more of them and managed to stay healthy. his offense dried out when he came here.
 
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The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
Nov 8, 2011
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Cleary gets every opportunity in the world, worked into the pp, and bumped up the lineup regularly. Even though he deserves none of it. Gets opportunities with elite linemates tootoo never gets.

Can't even compare the two when their opportunities are so night and day different. If tootoo got Clearys opportunist I guarantee he could match the production. Because anyone in the league prob could with how Cleary gets spoon fed with line mates and empty nets.

Guy who are under a half point a game in the AHL are not going to do a whole lot offensively, also he has a 500+ game career of offensive futility at the NHL level. You can guarantee it but I doubt it.

I do agree that Cleary has been spoon feed minutes, will say again in a post I don't think either guy plays in an ideal lineup. Just flat out disagree that Tootoo has a better shot or offensive feel.
 

Pavels Dog

Registered User
Feb 18, 2013
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I think he's great, but he does go invisible 5 on 5 with the wrong linemates.
Well he's 40+.

His ability to be a big impact player every now and then is a good sign for the playoffs when he'll be giving it his best and possibly last shot. He's been great together with Helm or Datsyuk.

Interesting to see whether he makes the Olympic team. Kristian Huselius recently made his prediction for the Team Sweden roster and didn't have Alfie on it, but I have a feeling he'll make it. Especially if Eriksson isn't back to 100% in time.
 

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