Speculation: How does Tampa get under the Cap this offseason?

Vilica

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Jun 1, 2014
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I'm biased because I would like my team to offer sheet Cernak, but I think he has a greater likelihood of being more expensive than others might think. If a team offer sheets him to a 5yr, 21.8m contract, that offer still only requires 1 single 2nd round pick as compensation. Bridge deal figures from people on here normally put Cernak at 2yr, 5m. Tampa would be asking him to turn down nearly 17m guaranteed, and there's no way he's making that back in the first 3 years of his next deal. That 5 year deal also puts him on the market as a 29yo UFA, young enough to sign another good contract. Any deal large enough from Tampa to compensate for the bridge deal is going to be a longer one, so he'd hit the market at 31 or 32.

Now there's nothing stopping Tampa from matching that deal, and they certainly could end up matching it, but that means his cap hit goes from 700k to 4.3m instead of 2.5m, an extra 1.8m that needs to get carved out. The difficulty with determining Cernak's compensation is that he's never going to put up the offensive numbers required to boost his cap hit much above 5m. Think back to the offer sheet that Hjalmarsson signed at 3.5m, and then his UFA deal was at 4.1m. That type of defensive defenseman is valuable, but does not get compensated at the level of an offensive defenseman.
 
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LePenseur

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Nov 5, 2016
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Why is everyone so confused, when you are so good you really do not need to get anything back in a trade. Then can unload both Kilorn and Johnson for conditional 7th pick and voila! Threaten to wave them or simply wave them. Then move on an steamroll the NHL for a 3rd year.

Everything above that is gravy.
I am pretty sure they can get a 2nd round pick out of the team's not on Kilorn tradelist. For Jonhson, threaten to wave, then trade him for minimal return, or even give a 3rd round pick to get rid of him once waved if nobody pick him up.
 

Zwui21

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Aug 31, 2019
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A couple of observations after reading through this thread:

• Some people coming up with awful trades as if the Bolts were a yard sale. They aren't. Think of it this way: if your offer sucks, there are probably at least 6 other GMs that can give the Bolts a better value. Like Killorn just got 26 goals in 68 games, GMs salivate at that all day.

• Whoever is suggesting Stamkos getting moved is out of lunch. Saying "well, they just won a Cup without him, so you can trade him" is dumb. We just won a Cup without him? Imagine what we can do with him back in the lineup. Face of the franchise, heart and soul guy that has become a true leader in the lockerroom as well. The guy has 166 points in his last 139 games, and still gets overlooked.
He'll retire as a Bolt.

• JBB said in yesterday's "Post playoff interview" that re-signing Sergachev, Cirelli and Cernak is priority.

• I don't see Sergachev signing an offer sheet. He loves it in Tampa, Kucherov and Vasy are his buddies and are locked long term here. Many saying he doesn't have space to blossom in Tampa as he's behind Hedman & McDonagh, and yet he averaged 22:37 toi this season(#27 most in the league for Dmen) and steady PP time. I see him accepting a bridge deal, Lightning stile. He's the natural replacement for Hedman when he gets old and he knows it.

• Cirelli is heavily relied on in Tampa, both es and pk, starting to get good looks on pp as well. He consolidated himself as 2C in the best team in the league. I don't see how you would swap this + living in Tampa for going in a lesser team being paid 1M more per season. But I still get a sense he'd be the one more willing to accept an offer sheet out of the 3 RFAs.

• Cernak is a great defensive Dman. The guy suggesting he's a product of playing with McDonagh or Hedman mustn't have seen the Bolts play at all. I think he's the more expendable one of the 3 RFA, but if he goes he'll be very missed. He's always been very appreciative of the Bolts going and trading for him, which could play a role on his willingness of accepting a bridge. I don't see him willingly leave Tampa.

• Best case scenario we get rid of Killorn and Johnson. Both still hold market value, but I'd be okay to get a lesser return as long as trades get finalized and we free up the cap space needed. Johnson could become a good 2C for at least 10 teams in the league.

• Overall the situation is tight, but as always things are not as bad as people want them to be.
Killorn is gone.
Coburn can be waived, if not claimed he goes to the A and Bolts save 1.1M in cap. But, as someone else said, I could see him retire as a Champion.
Paquette is gone.
Tyler Johnson can decide if he wants to agree to a trade this season, a trade in which he has control on the destination, or just get traded next season to one of his 15 decisions of choice. Players tend to prefer to control where they end up, do this could be extra motivation for him to waive his NTC to a team he wants to go to. Othereise just waive his ass lol, someone will pick him up.
 
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Springfield Isotopes

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Dec 9, 2018
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Tampa trade Killorn, Sergachev and The 3rd rounder from Philly to the Devils for the no 20 pick and a contract.
If you think Tampas going to get value think again.. Its a Covid world
If Tampa says no.. Devils will wait for teams to panic. Not lot of teams have capspace. Its going to be hectic and The Sellers is going to be shafted. 80% of the team owners want to lower salaries
 

Shrimper

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Could TB trade someone like Cernak or another RFA for a Robidas Island contract and then put that player on permanent LTIR? Arizona appears to have internal cap issues. Perhaps trade for Hossa's contract and use the LTIR to sign Sergachev?
 

bernmeister

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Jun 11, 2010
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congrats btw on the Cup.
Responses:

I like math problems. This is a good one.

I tried to calculate how Tampa could get under the Cap this season.

I think a good way to start is by calling up former GM Steve Yzerman, and offering him Cirelli, Killorn, and Coburn for one of Detroit's forward prospects, like Svetchnikov, Rasmussen or Veleno and a middle round pick. Instantly gives Detroit a 2nd line.

That would save the Lighntning $6.15 million in Cap Space. Move Mc Ilhinney, who is good value for a backup, and you have $7.45 million in additional Cap space. Or $13.783,333 in Cap space, with only 12 players signed.

So how do you make it work?

This is what I came up with.

Sergachev, long term, 6 years 4.5 million AAV, low value, but Sergachev gets paid to stay in Tampa for awhile, which I think he would like.

Cernak, on a $1.75 million AAV 2 year bridge

Shattenkirk staying in Tampa for $1 million

Cal Foote jumps up at $925 000

Bogosian or Schenn for league minimum $700 000

Equals $8.875 million in defensive investment.

4 ELC RFA forwards in Stephens, Volkov, Verhaeghe and Joseph that I gave slighty above their 5% QOs, at a sum of $3.25 million.

Sign a backup goalie at league minimum.

Total salary expenditure $12.825 million.

Leaves the Lightning with roughly $900 000 in Cap Space, with some prospects at forward that could make the jump.

Sound feasible?

Serg has to like taking 4.5 and no way he does that long term. A covid bridge deal of ONE OR TWO years at that is still cheap for him, so no, not feasible. He would not be a happy camper and that = probs.


I think Sergachev signs for more than that. Also, Lightning won't deal Cirelli

BriseBois likely already has a trade lined up for at least one of Killorn, Johnson, Palat or Gourde. With how good Gourde has been this post-season I would actually take him on the Habs. They probably need to deal at least 2 of those guys, maybe 3 and they will likely need to acquire some salary back in these deals. That will save them some cap, but will greatly weaken their line-up. If you add in some kids and some minimum salary free agents, they should come in under the cap.

I also wonder if they don't try to trade McDonagh. With enough whealing and dealing with the players mentionned BriseBois should be able to build a decent team under the cap while keeping his core players. But he needs to be working the phone, right now

Agree, he gets more and will want term if possible, but def mo $ regardless.


No.
Cernak should get at least 2.5 and Shat will leave and get more than 1m. Even BOGO should get 1.25-1.5m.
Killorn will get traded.
One NTC has to waive to move.
Shat will leave and get mo, for sho(re)

========
Answer to yr prob.

1. Rangers extend Deangelo 5.5 x 6
2 rangers retain 1m per = 4.5 effective
3 Rangers throw in a prospect W like Jacob Elmer

for this

NY gets Sergachev rfa rights, gives him deal commensurate w/market, slight volume discount for term, I'm guessing 6 x 6.5 ish.

NY gets proven LD
TB gets proven RD at annual discount.

everybody wins.
GMs can throw me a consultancy fee on this one.
 

Hockeyfannnn91

Registered User
Jan 26, 2019
1,268
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A couple of observations after reading through this thread:

• Some people coming up with awful trades as if the Bolts were a yard sale. They aren't. Think of it this way: if your offer sucks, there are probably at least 6 other GMs that can give the Bolts a better value. Like Killorn just got 26 goals in 68 games, GMs salivate at that all day.

• Whoever is suggesting Stamkos getting moved is out of lunch. Saying "well, they just won a Cup without him, so you can trade him" is dumb. We just won a Cup without him? Imagine what we can do with him back in the lineup. Face of the franchise, heart and soul guy that has become a true leader in the lockerroom as well. The guy has 166 points in his last 139 games, and still gets overlooked.
He'll retire as a Bolt.

• JBB said in yesterday's "Post playoff interview" that re-signing Sergachev, Cirelli and Cernak is priority.

• I don't see Sergachev signing an offer sheet. He loves it in Tampa, Kucherov and Vasy are his buddies and are locked long term here. Many saying he doesn't have space to blossom in Tampa as he's behind Hedman & McDonagh, and yet he averaged 22:37 toi this season(#27 most in the league for Dmen) and steady PP time. I see him accepting a bridge deal, Lightning stile. He's the natural replacement for Hedman when he gets old and he knows it.

• Cirelli is heavily relied on in Tampa, both es and pk, starting to get good looks on pp as well. He consolidated himself as 2C in the best team in the league. I don't see how you would swap this + living in Tampa for going in a lesser team being paid 1M more per season. But I still get a sense he'd be the one more willing to accept an offer sheet out of the 3 RFAs.

• Cernak is a great defensive Dman. The guy suggesting he's a product of playing with McDonagh or Hedman mustn't have seen the Bolts play at all. I think he's the more expendable one of the 3 RFA, but if he goes he'll be very missed. He's always been very appreciative of the Bolts going and trading for him, which could play a role on his willingness of accepting a bridge. I don't see him willingly leave Tampa.

• Best case scenario we get rid of Killorn and Johnson. Both still hold market value, but I'd be okay to get a lesser return as long as trades get finalized and we free up the cap space needed. Johnson could become a good 2C for at least 10 teams in the league.

• Overall the situation is tight, but as always things are not as bad as people want them to be.
Killorn is gone.
Coburn can be waived, if not claimed he goes to the A and Bolts save 1.1M in cap. But, as someone else said, I could see him retire as a Champion.
Paquette is gone.
Tyler Johnson can decide if he wants to agree to a trade this season, a trade in which he has control on the destination, or just get traded next season to one of his 15 decisions of choice. Players tend to prefer to control where they end up, do this could be extra motivation for him to waive his NTC to a team he wants to go to. Othereise just waive his ass lol, someone will pick him up.

Your living in a dreamworld if you think these players who have no trades will simply just waive them cause they want to keep some 22 yr old kid , most those guys took less money cause they pay less taxes , goodluck trying to convince them to go to montreal lets say

Better hope Brisebois has some blackmail material cause hes got alot of work to do man , killorn is the only one with a legit shot to move unless he somehow manages to put 14 teams on his trade list he knows isnt taking any money contracts back
 
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Tripod

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Tampa trade Killorn, Sergachev and The 3rd rounder from Philly to the Devils for the no 20 pick and a contract.
If you think Tampas going to get value think again.. Its a Covid world
If Tampa says no.. Devils will wait for teams to panic. Not lot of teams have capspace. Its going to be hectic and The Sellers is going to be shafted. 80% of the team owners want to lower salaries
That is unrealistic and you know it.

Killorn+Cernak for #18 or #20 + depth elc guy is a much more realistic trade that would happen...and NJ should 100% do that.

Add a 40+ winger
Add a much needed RHD for the middle pairing
 

HoweHullOrr

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Oct 3, 2013
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I'd think Killorn will go. A lot depends on the teams he's listed on his no trade list as far as what the return will be. If there's only one or two buyers on his list, the return could be pretty underwhelming.

TBL fans keep talking about Tyler Johnson. First of all, he has a full NTC. 2nd, his AAV is $5 m over the next 4 years. In a COVID, flat cap world, that's a difficult contract to trade even IF he waives for some team. I'd say it would take a considerable amount of luck for TBL to able to move him and would have better luck moving him in 2021 when he goes to a 20-team NMC clause.

Yanni Gourde also has the infamous NTC. His AAV is $5.16 m over the next 5 years. Again, this will be a difficult contract to move IF Gourde waives for some team.

Palat has a NTC as well. His AAV is $5.3 m over just the 2 years. He may draw more interest (he's probably the best player of the group) for a team that sees itself as a contender that is going for it IF he waives his NTC.

Paquette ($1.65 m) and Goodrow's ($925k) contracts are more reasonable, and just have one year of term. So, they could be moved, but that doesn't provide very much cap relief. They could buy out Braydon Coburn, but his salary is just $1.7 m, so not that much relief there ultimately.

Perhaps attaching Goodrow to one the NTC forwards plus adding a reasonable sweetner might help IF one of them can be convinced to waive.

All in all, I'm not seeing this as an ideal situation for the TBL despite whatever bravado their loyal fans project. Something is going to have to happen, and given circumstances, the returns on these trades could be surprising/underwhelming. Most GMs have their own players to subtract as their first priority, so the majority of teams will be trimming payroll to a self-imposed spending limit. Teams will be trying to reduce salary versus pick up more for the most part, and the few buyers that remain will be looking for bargains I'd think.
 
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BigHabs

#11
Aug 3, 2009
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It’s only 250k saving on the cap and I know Bolts fans will be like just get a pick for him but would they be interested in a deal around:

:habs

Jordan Weal

:bolts

Cedric Paquette

I think the Habs would like Paquette’s more physical play. Weal would save a bit of cap but also give them a body up front while shedding a little salary. Just the Bolts fans have been trying to move him.
 

HoweHullOrr

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Oct 3, 2013
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That is unrealistic and you know it.

Killorn+Cernak for #18 or #20 + depth elc guy is a much more realistic trade that would happen...and NJ should 100% do that.

Add a 40+ winger
Add a much needed RHD for the middle pairing

Not sure the Devils are the right profile. Over the last years, they have tended to spend closer to the cap floor than the cap ceiling. They are rebuilding, so not sure they need to grab players now given they won't be a really competitive team for a few years. Doesn't seem like a spending spree matches their timeline really well right now.

I'd think it would take something very enticing for them to move away from taking the high overall picks they will land for their rebuild. Under the current circumstances, they can certainly afford to wait unless they see a really helpful move that's a bargain. jmho.
 

Bob and 200 others

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Apr 30, 2012
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congrats btw on the Cup.
Responses:



Serg has to like taking 4.5 and no way he does that long term. A covid bridge deal of ONE OR TWO years at that is still cheap for him, so no, not feasible. He would not be a happy camper and that = probs.




Agree, he gets more and will want term if possible, but def mo $ regardless.



Shat will leave and get mo, for sho(re)

========
Answer to yr prob.

1. Rangers extend Deangelo 5.5 x 6
2 rangers retain 1m per = 4.5 effective
3 Rangers throw in a prospect W like Jacob Elmer

for this

NY gets Sergachev rfa rights, gives him deal commensurate w/market, slight volume discount for term, I'm guessing 6 x 6.5 ish.

NY gets proven LD
TB gets proven RD at annual discount.

everybody wins.
GMs can throw me a consultancy fee on this one.
Absolutely dreadful, go home you're drunk:laugh:
 

Hockeyfannnn91

Registered User
Jan 26, 2019
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It’s only 250k saving on the cap and I know Bolts fans will be like just get a pick for him but would they be interested in a deal around:

:habs

Jordan Weal

:bolts

Cedric Paquette

I think the Habs would like Paquette’s more physical play. Weal would save a bit of cap but also give them a body up front while shedding a little salary. Just the Bolts fans have been trying to move him.
Just give a 4-6th and hes yours , you got 97 picks

Jean charles will wet himself with excitement for another french player to be in mtl , add david perron and heads will explode
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
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Not sure the Devils are the right profile. Over the last years, they have tended to spend closer to the cap floor than the cap ceiling. They are rebuilding, so not sure they need to grab players now given they won't be a really competitive team for a few years. Doesn't seem like a spending spree matches their timeline really well right now.

I'd think it would take something very enticing for them to move away from taking the high overall picks they will land for their rebuild. Under the current circumstances, they can certainly afford to wait unless they see a really helpful move that's a bargain. jmho.
My thinking is that Cernak is the RHD top 4 Dman that you would hope to get a pick like #18 or 20 to be and the Devils get someone who can add depth up front. Killorn can be kept while Palmieri is traded if the Devils went that route too and get a great return for Palms. Or they could keep Killorn for a year and resign Palms, then flip Killorn later.

Lots of options.
 

HoweHullOrr

Registered User
Oct 3, 2013
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My thinking is that Cernak is the RHD top 4 Dman that you would hope to get a pick like #18 or 20 to be and the Devils get someone who can add depth up front. Killorn can be kept while Palmieri is traded if the Devils went that route too and get a great return for Palms. Or they could keep Killorn for a year and resign Palms, then flip Killorn later.

Lots of options.

Your idea is closer than a lot of the other proposals I've seen in here. My point is that NJD haven't been a big spending team, and with COVID and fewer fans (or no fans) driving the regular revenue, I can't see them going on much of a spending spree. They are rebuilding and can afford to be patient, especially in a reduced revenue environment. With all of this in mind, if they are tempted to add now, its probably going to have to be a shrewd move that's a bargain & really appealing to them.
 

Sota Popinski

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Tampa trade Killorn, Sergachev and The 3rd rounder from Philly to the Devils for the no 20 pick and a contract.
If you think Tampas going to get value think again.. Its a Covid world
If Tampa says no.. Devils will wait for teams to panic. Not lot of teams have capspace. Its going to be hectic and The Sellers is going to be shafted. 80% of the team owners want to lower salaries
Killorn on his own returns more than the 20th pick. Get real.
 

Scorvat

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Mar 17, 2015
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Bolts will match an offersheet for Cernek right? 4.2M at 3 years for a Tanev replacement is great. I'm gonna guess on of their NTC forwards go to the Avalanche
 

JTBF81

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Dec 6, 2018
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I'd think Killorn will go. A lot depends on the teams he's listed on his no trade list as far as what the return will be. If there's only one or two buyers on his list, the return could be pretty underwhelming.

TBL fans keep talking about Tyler Johnson. First of all, he has a full NTC. 2nd, his AAV is $5 m over the next 4 years. In a COVID, flat cap world, that's a difficult contract to trade even IF he waives for some team. I'd say it would take a considerable amount of luck for TBL to able to move him and would have better luck moving him in 2021 when he goes to a 20-team NMC clause.

Yanni Gourde also has the infamous NTC. His AAV is $5.16 m over the next 5 years. Again, this will be a difficult contract to move IF Gourde waives for some team.

Palat has a NTC as well. His AAV is $5.3 m over just the 2 years. He may draw more interest (he's probably the best player of the group) for a team that sees itself as a contender that is going for it IF he waives his NTC.

Paquette ($1.65 m) and Goodrow's ($925k) contracts are more reasonable, and just have one year of term. So, they could be moved, but that doesn't provide very much cap relief. They could buy out Braydon Coburn, but his salary is just $1.7 m, so not that much relief there ultimately.

Perhaps attaching Goodrow to one the NTC forwards plus adding a reasonable sweetner might help IF one of them can be convinced to waive.

All in all, I'm not seeing this as an ideal situation for the TBL despite whatever bravado their loyal fans project. Something is going to have to happen, and given circumstances, the returns on these trades could be surprising/underwhelming. Most GMs have their own players to subtract as their first priority, so the majority of teams will be trimming payroll to a self-imposed spending limit. Teams will be trying to reduce salary versus pick up more for the most part, and the few buyers that remain will be looking for bargains I'd think.
No bravado needed, just realistic analysis of the situation. The fantasized gutting of the Lightning by so many on here just won't be happening, again...

Killorn will be getting moved, and his return, while perhaps not as great as it would've been in a non-covid world, certainly won't be underwhelming. If even 2 teams are highly motivated to acquire him, his price goes up. Most reasonable people believe he'll get anywhere from a later 1st to a 2nd+3rd, with varying offers in between.

Yes, Johnson does have an ntc. Players have waived them before, even in Tampa, contrary to what some would have people believe. For the very reason you stated, he may be interested in waiving for specific teams now. He knows he is gone after next year, why wait until then and risk having to go to one of 20 teams when he could have much better control over a fresh start somewhere else. Aside from this past season, he is a pretty reliable ~50 point guy who can be on 10-15 teams 2nd lines. His contract isn't that overpaid at all for what he brings, and if the acquiring team didn't like the fit, the ntc still kicks in after one more season. Tampa will likely take underwhelming return here, but to clear the space will be far more important. If Johnson won't budge then Brisebois can play hardball and threaten to waive him, which Johnson won't want as there are teams he probably wouldn't want to go to that would likely claim him.

Gourde and Palat aren't going anywhere. There was some debate a few months ago as to which of the three between Johnson, Gourde, and Palat would be the focus on moving in addition to Killorn, but it's clear now which two should be staying. Gourde was also not moved last Summer by JBB, and he was one of his first big extensions, so can't see him going. Palat proved his worth and then some this season plus playoffs, so he won't be getting asked to waive aside from a very last resort either.

Paquette will be getting traded more than likely, as his 1.65 million will allow Tampa to essentially sign 2 cheaper depth guys on shorr term deals, like Verhaeghe, Stephens, Volkov etc. Tampa could try to keep him, but players such as Goodrow and Coleman are more valuable to hold onto in this price than range. Tampa will likely take a 4th or 5th for him. Goodrow is a key part of the 3rd line and with what he brings relative to his cap hit, can't see Brisebois interested in moving him. There are several options with Coburn, either he can be traded if he waives, he could retire, or Tampa can buy him out/send him down. While the 1.1-1.7 million isn't huge, in multiple models of how the team will look next year, it makes a difference.

No one in Tampa believes the team won't lose some pieces, but we also know how the team has handled these supposed "cap hell" situations the past 5 or 6 years and been more than fine. Tampa isn't tossing big sweeteners to move these contracts as these guys aren't washed up cap dumps with little value. Despite the guarantees and assurances from so many that Tampa will have to do this or will certainly lose that player, it just hasn't been the case with the team under the recent and current leadership(Yzerman/Brisebois). Until these negative returns and scenarios ravage the Lightning, those of us that support them will continue to believe in how the team usually gets things done.
 

Video Coach

Registered User
Sep 16, 2005
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I could see Ryan McDonagh getting moved. Great d man that would fit on a lot of teams. There’s cost certainty there as well and Sergachev is probably ready to move into a top 4 role at ES.

Then I’d guess Killorn. Just bc he doesn’t have full trade protection.
 

More 2004

Stamkos Apologist
May 3, 2004
3,334
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Tampa
Tampa trade Killorn, Sergachev and The 3rd rounder from Philly to the Devils for the no 20 pick and a contract.
If you think Tampas going to get value think again.. Its a Covid world
If Tampa says no.. Devils will wait for teams to panic. Not lot of teams have capspace. Its going to be hectic and The Sellers is going to be shafted. 80% of the team owners want to lower salaries
responding so I can laugh more at this later.
 

HoweHullOrr

Registered User
Oct 3, 2013
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2,227
Killorn will be getting moved, and his return, .....

Yes, Johnson does have an ntc. .

Besides Killorn, you need one of the three [Johnson, Gourde, Palat] to waive. Not impossible of course, but certainly not automatic. So, that's step 1.

Then, if that step is cleared, then you can see what you get.

I don't think you'll see a lot of teams with cap space or money to spend, and I think a lot of players will be available. Don't think you can compare the COVID and the no/low revenue reality to other past situations. They won't be similar imho. But I guess we'll find out. Good luck.
 
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