Speculation: How does Tampa get under the Cap this offseason?

[Byrddog]

Without Sergachev and Cirelli this team isn't coming close to another Cup next year. There is plenty of room for both of them on a bridge. The only player that hurts to lose is Killorn, but getting some value for him and moving Paquette, Johnson and Coburn for whatever Tampa can get beats losing Sergachev and Cirelli for future maybes and scratch off tickets. It's time for guys like Volkov, Verhaeghe, Stephens, Barre-Boulet and Joseph to see if they can provide more steady contributions to the lineup. Tampa also has Coleman and Goodrow signed for one more year, and there's certainly no guarantee they are sticking around after that. Tampa should keep Maroon and Bogosian, maybe Rutta, and let Shattenkirk walk. He was never planned to be a long term addition here and unless he's willing to have another team friendly short term deal, Tampa isn't keeping a defensive liability in favor of Serg and/or Cirelli. The numbers work fine for Tampa to start the year with 21 or 22 players with having bridged the 3 main rfas for 11-12 million combined and signed the other rfa's and ufa's to 1 or 2 year deals. The loss of Killorn will be unfortunate, but if this team really wants to keep their window open for a while, losing Killorn, Johnson, Paquette and Coburn beats losing Sergachev and Cirelli any day of the week. It wouldn't be that surprising to see next years team look something close to
Palat-Point-Kucherov
Gourde-Cirelli-Stamkos
Goodrow-Barre-Boulet-Coleman
Volkov-Verhaeghe/Stephens-Maroon
Stephens/Verhaeghe/Joseph as the 13th
Hedman-Bogosian/Rutta
McD-Cernak
Serg-Foote
Bogo/Rutta/Schenn rotating as a 7th
Vasi
McE
If there's not quite enough left to have the 13th F on opening night, they can run with 21 initially. If Barre-Boulet doesn't mesh well as a 3C, he can be moved around and either move Gourde back to 3C or have one of Stephens or Verhaeghe center the 3rd line. Tampa should still be fine next year but not because they got rid of 2 of the more promising young players in the organization for prospects and picks that may pan out in the future.

It is sure a good thing you are not the GM, are you sure you are not a Oilers fan because this statment sounds exactly what they have been doing for years. In order to keep two RFA's that the team can not afford long term you are willing to move 4 players? "Killorn, but getting some value for him and moving Paquette, Johnson and Coburn for whatever" while inserting 4 ELC's. I am not against bringing the kids up but you do not do that in one fail swoop. As I have said No team can keep three potential #1 defensemen do not believe me look at Nashville who at one point had Weber, Josi and Jones. How did that work out? I like Sergichev a lot but Mac has a NTC and a lot of term left and if healthy can play with a lesser guy and cover him night in night out. Heddy IMO is the best all around defenseman in the league and bot are leaders on this team therefore part of the core. Now as to Cirelli he is good he is not great, Stamkos can move to center that 2nd line and it creates a spot for the young kids you feel need a chance. I ok with moving Paquette as well but just to create a spot for Verhagehe on the 4th line is a waste. Under no scenerio do you break up that 3rd line after this playoff run Verhagehe is not ready for 2nd line and well Point centers the 1st so there is no useful spot for him for 3 years at least, Stephens and Volkov deserve a chance in the league now as well but not at the expense of ripping apart a team that just lifted a cup with the chance to do it again with the core it has and Cirelli is not a core player here. There is a reason so many guys were given NTC's and NMC's Yzer and JBB have committed to this core. And while we may not like it for some of those guys it is not going to change. And yes it will suck to move some of this talent for futures but thats all that is on the table we can not take Cap nor can we absorb any buyouts. The Core is 27 to 31 years old with the exception of Point at 24. It is set to compete and win a couple more cups and yes just like the Blackhawks Dynasty they will need to meve a payer each year to deal with Cap until they have to rebuild. With that said Now is the time to reload the pipeline with guys who will be ready in 3 to 4 years and that is what JBB will do.

On another note for a couple years there has been a fire Coop banter well "How do we like him now". I am not saying he is the best coach in the league because I think that is Trotz, but he is a coach who has got this team deep in the playoffs most years and it was good to just see him step back and let the on ice leaders take this team to the Cup this season. This group of players has cured that loss to the Bluejackets in round one last year may have well been the single most important series played since the first Cup win. And the good thing we are a threat to repeat this a couple more times.

 

[BatVader]

Cirelli + Killorn to Winnipeg for #10 + Heinola
Gives Tampa space to sign Sergachev

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Cernak plays with McDonagh, he barely plays with Hedman, closer to 3% than 30% that will tell you any Tampa fan

Hedman gets to carry the worst D in our team i.e: Rutta, Bogosian, Shattenkirk

Erik Cernak - Fantasy Hockey Game Logs, Advanced Stats and more - Frozen Tools

Well saying 3% would simply be inaccurate, no? Dobbers has it at 27% ES time spent with Hedman

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Cirelli + Killorn to Winnipeg for #10 + Heinola
Gives Tampa space to sign Sergachev

Winnipeg wouldnt even pay #10 for that, let alone add their best prospect

 

[kabidjan18]

Cirelli is probably staying.

But for good measure, Dallas would give the 2020 1st, 2020 4th, and 2021 3rd. So an extra 4th on the OS compensation.

 

[DFC]

I wonder what level of OS it would actually take to lure these guys away.

I feel like we'll match any offer thrown at Sergachev. With Cirelli... I'm not sure how we offer him even 4m. Which sounds absurd, but, really, Brayden Point is a 10m player making 6.75. If Cirelli scales down similarly, it would be somewhere in the neighborhood of 4 on a bridge.

 

[Price is Wright]

Killorn is gone. Only a modified NTC. Has value. 26 in 68 is the kind of goals where a team pays you proper value instead of a cap dump. $4.4M off the books with $5.3M in space. Let's pretend they took back a cheap player to fill a spot. $8.7M should cover Sergachev and Cernak.

Gourde/Johnson/Palat all have no trade clauses. They only move if they want to. If none want to move, you ask Cirelli and Sergachev to take a bridge to next season when Johnson and Palat move to modified NTC.

 

[DFC]

Killorn is gone. Only a modified NTC. Has value. 26 in 68 is the kind of goals where a team pays you proper value instead of a cap dump. $4.4M off the books with $5.3M in space. Let's pretend they took back a cheap player to fill a spot. $8.7M should cover Sergachev and Cernak.

Gourde/Johnson/Palat all have no trade clauses. They only move if they want to. If none want to move, you ask Cirelli and Sergachev to take a bridge to next season when Johnson and Palat move to modified NTC.

We can scrape together some pennies on guys like Coburn and Paquette. Expecting Stephens to be a near league min regular next year. Not sure if they can keep Verhaeghe at that level too.

Lots of questions around whether or not Foote can come in next year as a bottom pairing guy.

I think they need Johnson to waive; if not him, then Gourde.

 

[8999]

At 9.5 starting next season, is Vasilevskiy untouchable, untradeable or both? It appears NMC will take effect after this upcoming season.

 

[AimForTopCheddar]

At 9.5 starting next season, is Vasilevskiy untouchable, untradeable or both? It appears NMC will take effect after this upcoming season.

We wouldn't move Vasy. He's the best goalie in the league.

 

[hmc1987]

Cirelli + Killorn to Winnipeg for #10 + Heinola
Gives Tampa space to sign Sergachev

TBL dont have much of a choice tbh

 

[hmc1987]

Cirelli is probably staying.

But for good measure, Dallas would give the 2020 1st, 2020 4th, and 2021 3rd. So an extra 4th on the OS compensation.

Cirelli is gone baby, gone

 

[JTBF81]

It is sure a good thing you are not the GM, are you sure you are not a Oilers fan because this statment sounds exactly what they have been doing for years. In order to keep two RFA's that the team can not afford long term you are willing to move 4 players? "Killorn, but getting some value for him and moving Paquette, Johnson and Coburn for whatever" while inserting 4 ELC's. I am not against bringing the kids up but you do not do that in one fail swoop. As I have said No team can keep three potential #1 defensemen do not believe me look at Nashville who at one point had Weber, Josi and Jones. How did that work out? I like Sergichev a lot but Mac has a NTC and a lot of term left and if healthy can play with a lesser guy and cover him night in night out. Heddy IMO is the best all around defenseman in the league and bot are leaders on this team therefore part of the core. Now as to Cirelli he is good he is not great, Stamkos can move to center that 2nd line and it creates a spot for the young kids you feel need a chance. I ok with moving Paquette as well but just to create a spot for Verhagehe on the 4th line is a waste. Under no scenerio do you break up that 3rd line after this playoff run Verhagehe is not ready for 2nd line and well Point centers the 1st so there is no useful spot for him for 3 years at least, Stephens and Volkov deserve a chance in the league now as well but not at the expense of ripping apart a team that just lifted a cup with the chance to do it again with the core it has and Cirelli is not a core player here. There is a reason so many guys were given NTC's and NMC's Yzer and JBB have committed to this core. And while we may not like it for some of those guys it is not going to change. And yes it will suck to move some of this talent for futures but thats all that is on the table we can not take Cap nor can we absorb any buyouts. The Core is 27 to 31 years old with the exception of Point at 24. It is set to compete and win a couple more cups and yes just like the Blackhawks Dynasty they will need to meve a payer each year to deal with Cap until they have to rebuild. With that said Now is the time to reload the pipeline with guys who will be ready in 3 to 4 years and that is what JBB will do.

On another note for a couple years there has been a fire Coop banter well "How do we like him now". I am not saying he is the best coach in the league because I think that is Trotz, but he is a coach who has got this team deep in the playoffs most years and it was good to just see him step back and let the on ice leaders take this team to the Cup this season. This group of players has cured that loss to the Bluejackets in round one last year may have well been the single most important series played since the first Cup win. And the good thing we are a threat to repeat this a couple more times.

I'm glad you're not the GM as Tampa would be back to a fringe team soon enough. Killorn and Johnson are not part of the core anymore(Killorn is close but Johnson is not). They are 30 and 31 vs Cirelli and Serg at 22 and 23. Cirelli and Serg are quickly becoming a part of not only the current core but the future one as well. Yes, losing Killorn and Johnson does hurt depth, but guys such as Verhaeghe and Stephens already saw some time with the big club this year as did Volkov. Players such as Barre-Boulet and Joseph should also have a chance to contribute. These guys have done very well at the AHL level and they need the opportunity to prove it in Tampa. Yo uh advocate for getting rid of both of Tampa's best young players for more picks and prospects that won't help a team in their prime window at all. A fee years ago this strategy may have been solid, but not for where Tampa is at now. The cap isn't staying flat forever, by the end of their bridge deals the cap will have begun rising again. There are also other players Tampa will be moving out between now and the end of the 23-24 season.

Stamkos is much better at the W now, and be seemed much more comfortable there this past season. Regardless, keeping Cirelli and Sergachev is no doubt the first priority. Cirelli is good but not great, okay. I'll take a 23 year old who just finished his 2nd full year and took 4th in the Selke while still having not come close to realizing his offensive potential rather than a couple guys who might become as good 4 years from now when who knows where Tampa will be positioned. Serg will certainly not be the 3LD forever, within a couple years tops he'll be a regular in the top 4 and perhaps even sooner if the plan is to play him on the right side again. A d-core going forward with Hedman, McD, Serg, Cernak and Foote is a pretty good one.

You can act like you know what Brisebois will do, but you don't know anymore than I do, or anyone else, sorry. I look at the team longer term than the next 2 or 3 years. Yes, players will get moved out each year, starting with likely Killorn and Johnson this year, and then likely one of Palat or Gourde after next year(depending on how JBB feels about Coleman and Goodrow and what they are looking for on their next deals). I also wouldn't be inserting 4 brand new players in, as Verhaeghe, Stephens and Volkov all saw playing time this year, and if Barre-Boulet isn't with the team next year, not sure why Tampa is keeping him, only to let him rot in Syracuse.

What I can also see happening is for Tampa to only get rid of Johnson, Paquette and Coburn, and keep Killorn in favor of Cernak. If Brisebois and Cooper plan on moving Serg back to the right, they can run a left side of Hedman-McD-low coat ufa 3LD, then Bogo/Rutta, Serg, Foote on the right. Then Tampa can start the year with:
Palat-Point-Kuch
Killorn-Cirelli-Stamkos
Goodrow-Gourde-Coleman
Volkov-Verhaeghe/Stephens-Maroon
Hedman-Bogo or Rutta
McD-Sergachev
3LD-Foote
Or
Hedman-Bogo
McD-Rutta
Serg-Foote


My preference would still to be get good value for Killorn and keep the defense as strong as possible. In your scenario, Tampa still has no one for the 2nd line RW next to I presume Killorn and Stamkos and likely end up either moving up one of Coleman/Gourde or trying out one of Barre-Boulet or Volkov up there. The only way I can ever see 2 of the 3 rfas leaving Tampa and not ending any good short term future chances is if it's maybe Cirelli for an RHD and Cernak+ for a top 6 winger. Tampa of course would have to make the cap work which would be tricky, but I've seen some examples where it might work(Cirelli for Dumbaw/retention and Cernak+ for Rakell for example). Also, with the expansion draft coming next offseason, Brisebois has to figure out what deal he can make to keep 5 strong dmen and perhaps have them not take a F that he doesn't want to lose. Brisebois needs to balance the now with 5 years from now in any moves he makes, and trading his two best young assets for magic beans(of which Tampa already has a few of being blocked from having a chance) in favor of keeping a depth piece or two isn't a winning strategy for future Cups.

 

[Bob and 200 others]

I'm glad you're not the GM as Tampa would be back to a fringe team soon enough. Killorn and Johnson are not part of the core anymore(Killorn is close but Johnson is not). They are 30 and 31 vs Cirelli and Serg at 22 and 23. Cirelli and Serg are quickly becoming a part of not only the current core but the future one as well. Yes, losing Killorn and Johnson does hurt depth, but guys such as Verhaeghe and Stephens already saw some time with the big club this year as did Volkov. Players such as Barre-Boulet and Joseph should also have a chance to contribute. These guys have done very well at the AHL level and they need the opportunity to prove it in Tampa. Yo uh advocate for getting rid of both of Tampa's best young players for more picks and prospects that won't help a team in their prime window at all. A fee years ago this strategy may have been solid, but not for where Tampa is at now. The cap isn't staying flat forever, by the end of their bridge deals the cap will have begun rising again. There are also other players Tampa will be moving out between now and the end of the 23-24 season.

Stamkos is much better at the W now, and be seemed much more comfortable there this past season. Regardless, keeping Cirelli and Sergachev is no doubt the first priority. Cirelli is good but not great, okay. I'll take a 23 year old who just finished his 2nd full year and took 4th in the Selke while still having not come close to realizing his offensive potential rather than a couple guys who might become as good 4 years from now when who knows where Tampa will be positioned. Serg will certainly not be the 3LD forever, within a couple years tops he'll be a regular in the top 4 and perhaps even sooner if the plan is to play him on the right side again. A d-core going forward with Hedman, McD, Serg, Cernak and Foote is a pretty good one.

You can act like you know what Brisebois will do, but you don't know anymore than I do, or anyone else, sorry. I look at the team longer term than the next 2 or 3 years. Yes, players will get moved out each year, starting with likely Killorn and Johnson this year, and then likely one of Palat or Gourde after next year(depending on how JBB feels about Coleman and Goodrow and what they are looking for on their next deals). I also wouldn't be inserting 4 brand new players in, as Verhaeghe, Stephens and Volkov all saw playing time this year, and if Barre-Boulet isn't with the team next year, not sure why Tampa is keeping him, only to let him rot in Syracuse.

What I can also see happening is for Tampa to only get rid of Johnson, Paquette and Coburn, and keep Killorn in favor of Cernak. If Brisebois and Cooper plan on moving Serg back to the right, they can run a left side of Hedman-McD-low coat ufa 3LD, then Bogo/Rutta, Serg, Foote on the right. Then Tampa can start the year with:
Palat-Point-Kuch
Killorn-Cirelli-Stamkos
Goodrow-Gourde-Coleman
Volkov-Verhaeghe/Stephens-Maroon
Hedman-Bogo or Rutta
McD-Sergachev
3LD-Foote
Or
Hedman-Bogo
McD-Rutta
Serg-Foote


My preference would still to be get good value for Killorn and keep the defense as strong as possible. In your scenario, Tampa still has no one for the 2nd line RW next to I presume Killorn and Stamkos and likely end up either moving up one of Coleman/Gourde or trying out one of Barre-Boulet or Volkov up there. The only way I can ever see 2 of the 3 rfas leaving Tampa and not ending any good short term future chances is if it's maybe Cirelli for an RHD and Cernak+ for a top 6 winger. Tampa of course would have to make the cap work which would be tricky, but I've seen some examples where it might work(Cirelli for Dumbaw/retention and Cernak+ for Rakell for example). Also, with the expansion draft coming next offseason, Brisebois has to figure out what deal he can make to keep 5 strong dmen and perhaps have them not take a F that he doesn't want to lose. Brisebois needs to balance the now with 5 years from now in any moves he makes, and trading his two best young assets for magic beans(of which Tampa already has a few of being blocked from having a chance) in favor of keeping a depth piece or two isn't a winning strategy for future Cups.

Agreed with all of this. That posters ideas are god awful! Lets trade two young, potential core pieces to keep two old pieces way past their prime? f***ing awful!

 

[Vasilevskiy]

Winnipeg wouldnt even pay #10 for that, let alone add their best prospect

Winnipeg wouldn't pay #10 for a #2C that is 4th in Selke award and that is getting better offensively?

Winnipeg wishes their #10 gets to be as good as Cirelli is right now.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Stamkos to the Avs. Is Stamkos going to waive? Not sure. Avs are another no state tax and contender so he might. Are the Avs interested? What futures would they offer? Tampa does need RD and would they move Timmins and their 1st in the package? What are the Lightning looking for? Can't ask for that much due to their cap issues and how this one trade fixes all their cap problems?

Lots of questions but this might work. What you guys think? What would be a fair trade value set on Stamkos? $0.75/dollar or $0.66/dollar? What does this do for the Avs cap?

- Stamkos
for
- Timmins
- 2020 1st
- Jost

 

[Znith]

We can scrape together some pennies on guys like Coburn and Paquette. Expecting
.

Killorn is gone. Only a modified NTC. Has value. 26 in 68 is the kind of goals where a team pays you proper value instead of a cap dump. $4.4M off the books with $5.3M in space.

So right. I'm baffled by people thinking that Cirelli would have to be included to cap dump Killorn.

First of all Killorn has value in himself. Teams value cup pedigree, and this guy is a 45+ pt player at $4.4, which is decent, and has 3 years which is perfect. I'm not saying you'll get a haul for the guy, but for sure you don't have to include to get him off the books. I'd say a non blue chip prospect, or like a 2nd rounder. But hell even if you get a 3rd or whatever.

Paquette is the kind of depth guy tons of teams would want. Physical and can play, 1.6$m for 1 year. He won't get a ton but you can for sure grab a 4th or something.

Only thing I disagree with what you guys are saying is that Sergachev + Cirelli is wayyyy more than $8m, you'll need 6+ for serg, 5 ish for Cirelli, so you might have to move more $$ out.

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

Stamkos to the Avs. Is Stamkos going to waive? Not sure. Avs are another no state tax and contender so he might. Are the Avs interested? What futures would they offer? Tampa does need RD and would they move Timmins and their 1st in the package? What are the Lightning looking for? Can't ask for that much due to their cap issues and how this one trade fixes all their cap problems?

Lots of questions but this might work. What you guys think? What would be a fair trade value set on Stamkos? $0.75/dollar or $0.66/dollar? What does this do for the Avs cap?

- Stamkos
for
- Timmins
- 2020 1st
- Jost

No. End of.

 

[Habs Halifax]

No. End of.

You never know how that plays out... Lots of guys with NTC's. You could try to pull a Hornqvist on them. I would not try to pretend this will be easy and it's just a normal off season. I think you need to clear about $6M - $8M of space so that's two contracts, not one. So Killorn and who?

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

Would the Rangers be a good trading partner? In need of LD & center. Could put together a deal where tampa sends either Cirelli or Serg and a cap dump for a combo of young cost controlled players/prospects & picks. Seems like there are lots of different combonations that work. Definitely going to hurt Tampa fans to start trading guys that just won the cup, but this is the ugly/necessary business cost of putting together such a talented team.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Killorn is gone. Only a modified NTC. Has value. 26 in 68 is the kind of goals where a team pays you proper value instead of a cap dump. $4.4M off the books with $5.3M in space. Let's pretend they took back a cheap player to fill a spot. $8.7M should cover Sergachev and Cernak.

Gourde/Johnson/Palat all have no trade clauses. They only move if they want to. If none want to move, you ask Cirelli and Sergachev to take a bridge to next season when Johnson and Palat move to modified NTC.

Tampa also needs to sign a RD in that mix of off season moves. So they likely have to clear at least $6M - $8M range. I think both Sergachev and Cirelli are bridged. McAvoy was bridged at $4.9M for 3 years so I would expect Sergachev to be around the same ish (less tax in Tampa so they might be able to get him for lower than McAvoy). Not sure what kind of bridge Cirelli gets. Around $4.5M or less? Could bridge him for 2 years and it would be less.

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

You never know how that plays out... Lots of guys with NTC's. You could try to pull a Hornqvist on them. I would not try to pretend this will be easy and it's just a normal off season. I think you need to clear about $6M - $8M of space so that's two contracts, not one. So Killorn and who?

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

Would the Rangers be a good trading partner? In need of LD & center. Could put together a deal where tampa sends either Cirelli or Serg and a cap dump for a combo of young cost controlled players/prospects & picks. Seems like there are lots of different combonations that work. Definitely going to hurt Tampa fans to start trading guys that just won the cup, but this is the ugly/necessary business cost of putting together such a talented team.

We've had discussions here with some Rangers fans and they go nowhere.

 

[Hockeyfannnn91]

Basically telling brisebois you can f*** off if your even thinking of asking me to waive my ntc cause it aint happening

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'm fully aware Stamkos likes it in Tampa. That's not new information. There was a part where I said... "Will he waive the NMC?". I don't think it's a far fetched idea. You and I don't have the advantage of being the Tampa GM and knowing what those guys with NTC's are saying... including Stamkos with his NMC. Tampa won the cup without Stamkos and imagine what reaction he would get if he is asked if he would like to be with the Avs? He might get pissed off and say yeah... sure. Or he might say... too bad. I took a discount to stay and I have a NMC. Trade someone else.

You better bet they have paid attention to the Hornqvist situation too! This might be easy to pull off or more complicated... guess work. And those players are not dumb. I'm sure there is chatter on that behind the scenes with the players on the team