How do you Rebuild... The Montreal Canadiens?

[ismelofhockey]

It's not lazy to suggest that they should consider candidates that are not bilingual. If there are some quality French speaking candidates then all the power to them. My main point was that they shouldn't limit themselves to only selecting bilingual individuals but also consider all the best candidates even if some only speak English.

It's lazy to claim that this is a determinant factor in the team's current woes. It's lazy to claim it's been any kind of factor at all.

 

[ismelofhockey]

And following that protest, guess what happened...

Nothing.

Cunneyworth went back to work as coach, the fans went back to the game, and the media went back to their usual post-game interviews with him. Aside from one small grumble, it ceased to be a news story. And that was with a poor coach. The Habs could hire any legit GM or coach and the fans and media would be fine. An anglo GM would be a story for a few days, then everyone would forget about it.

A bad coach? He'd coached the Amerks for 8 years, bringing them to the conference finals twice. Then he was an assistant in the NHL with the Thrashers, before joining the Bulldogs for a season where he lead his team to the conference finals again. This wasn't a nobody. He had paid his dues. He is now once again coach of the Amerks. Pierre Lebrun reported that many GMs felt Cunneyworth was a good choice.

From his own words, he "suffered a lot" in his short stint as Habs coach. That doesn't sound like everything went back to normal after an initial outroar. Would you like me to pull up a list of articles about this that were written well after the initial uproar? The truth is, the uproar never went away. You could also pull up recordings of sports talk radio shows, especially their call in segments to see that it was constantly in the news and on people's minds. Hell even Serge Savard said an anglophone coach "made no sense". Even comedians and artists made a fuss about it, like Laurent Paquin and Marcel Sabourin.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

I am an Anglophone who lives in Montreal.

I definitely felt the hostility.

 

[DaPhazz]

They have like... zero core players that you would say are prime age to rebuild around. Their 1D is on the wrong side of thirty, as is their goalie. They have no 1C. Their prospect pool is about as shallow as one you buy at Wal-Mart.

They need to draft impact players. Look for market inefficiencies. Fire Bargainbin and probably Julien. They need to seriously improve their scouting and development. Stop wasting draft picks to bring in a fourth line grinder at the trade deadline.

32 is wrong side of 30 now, wut?

 

[rfournier103]

As another poster said, put another franchise in Montreal.

I think the Canadiens take their fans for granted and if they brought back the Maroons (or a reasonable facsimile) I bet the Canadiens would turn around in a hurry.

After the Patriots won the Super Bowl in February 2002, and Boston ended a 16 year championship drought, all the other teams in town got a whole lot better all of a sudden after DECADES of incompetent futility. Even the Bruins.

The Canadiens just need motivation and the threat of fans finding other things to spend their entertainment time and dollars on.

 

[tucson83]

This is a new series of me, the OP, asking HFBoards to tell me how you rebuild a franchise that either a Dumpster, Cursed, or in Mediocrity.
In this one... how can we revive the Habs?

Most likely you guys will say Fire Bergevin.

fire bergevin, trade all your vets for picks to get rid of cap space, bring in a coach that can develop young players, sign cheap young nhl ready players in free agency to fill out the roster , sign one max deal on a defensemen, center or winger, and a goalie drafted or free agency.

 

[LemonSauceD]

Probably stop trading away your top prospects.

 

[The Macho King]

32 is wrong side of 30 now, wut?

... do you not know what that phrase means because 32 is literally the wrong side of 30.

 

[bumblebeeman]

As another poster said, put another franchise in Montreal.

I think the Canadiens take their fans for granted and if they brought back the Maroons (or a reasonable facsimile) I bet the Canadiens would turn around in a hurry.

After the Patriots won the Super Bowl in February 2002, and Boston ended a 16 year championship drought, all the other teams in town got a whole lot better all of a sudden after DECADES of incompetent futility. Even the Bruins.

The Canadiens just need motivation and the threat of fans finding other things to spend their entertainment time and dollars on.

The Alouettes were a dynasty in the 2000's, I guess Montrealers don't care that much about the CFL?

 

[DowntownBooster]

It's lazy to claim that this is a determinant factor in the team's current woes. It's lazy to claim it's been any kind of factor at all.

Think what you want. Several other posters have said the same thing. Don't limit your options when it comes to choosing a coach and gm.

 

[Sabresruletheschool]

Montreal put all there eggs into Weber and Price so they have to act now. Try to sign Patches to a short term deal with the least amount of cap hit possible, get a top 4 defenceman, throw everything you got at Tavares. How to accomplish this and stay in cap, I have no idea. Unless you trade Patches for very little cap coming back. Find someone to trade Alzner for a pick, and start from there.

Edit: new plan

Trade Patches for a 1st, find a team to trade Alzner for a pick. Any pick, or for free. Take the 1st from the Patches trade, add a pick or prospect to it and try to get a cheap top 4 defenceman. Or if you can trade Pacioretty for a cheap top 4 defenceman, do that. Now with the money you save from the trades, offer Tavares a lucrative contract. And don't be afraid to use your 1st from this year to get a good player. To me, using that pick if its outside the top 2 is crazy. Montreal doesn't have the time to develop prospects, their time is now, and there isn't a whole lot of time to do it.

 

[KIRK]

This is a new series of me, the OP, asking HFBoards to tell me how you rebuild a franchise that either a Dumpster, Cursed, or in Mediocrity.
In this one... how can we revive the Habs?

Most likely you guys will say Fire Bergevin.

Ask Bergevin what he would do the revive the Habs, then do the opposite.

 

[ismelofhockey]

Think what you want. Several other posters have said the same thing. Don't limit your options when it comes to choosing a coach and gm.

Ah, the popular appeal fallacy. Another clear sign of lazy thinking.

 

[DowntownBooster]

Ah, the popular appeal fallacy. Another clear sign of lazy thinking.

The responses are rather lazy. Same thing over and over.

 

[rfournier103]

The Alouettes were a dynasty in the 2000's, I guess Montrealers don't care that much about the CFL?

Took the Bs nine years to win the Cup after the Patriots won their first Super Bowl. In that nine years, the Patriots won three Super Bowls, the freaking Red Sox won not one but two World Series, and the Celtics won a title before the Bruins woke up and won the Cup.

It took the Bruins totally bottoming out and becoming completely irrelevant in Boston for the necessary changes in management to be made. When that happens to the Canadiens, they’ll get better.

 

[sharknado]

A bad coach? He'd coached the Amerks for 8 years, bringing them to the conference finals twice. Then he was an assistant in the NHL with the Thrashers, before joining the Bulldogs for a season where he lead his team to the conference finals again. This wasn't a nobody. He had paid his dues. He is now once again coach of the Amerks. Pierre Lebrun reported that many GMs felt Cunneyworth was a good choice.

From his own words, he "suffered a lot" in his short stint as Habs coach. That doesn't sound like everything went back to normal after an initial outroar. Would you like me to pull up a list of articles about this that were written well after the initial uproar? The truth is, the uproar never went away. You could also pull up recordings of sports talk radio shows, especially their call in segments to see that it was constantly in the news and on people's minds. Hell even Serge Savard said an anglophone coach "made no sense". Even comedians and artists made a fuss about it, like Laurent Paquin and Marcel Sabourin.

You are saying that 3 francophones were against having an anglophone as a coach. An an interim coach at that. What a surprise. As I said in another thread, I really hope the Nordiques can come back so that Quebec can have their all francophone team and leave us alone.

 

[rfournier103]

I really don’t get the whole Anglophone vs Francophone thing. Maybe because I’m an American. If I were a Canadiens fan, I wouldn’t care who coached or played for the team as long as they won. I just don’t get it.

 

[ismelofhockey]

I really don’t get the whole Anglophone vs Francophone thing. Maybe because I’m an American. If I were a Canadiens fan, I wouldn’t care who coached or played for the team as long as they won. I just don’t get it.

Understandable. It's not really a "vs" thing. No one hates each other. I wouldn't even say it's dislike. There is a certain amount of antagonism emanating from the fact that Quebec does things differently than Canada, from the fact anglophones ruled Quebec economically rather like a colony, and media like to play people up on that on both sides.
For the Habs though, you need to understand a little history. Canadiens literally meant "french-canadians" before the British in Canada began to identify as Canadians. Quebec took control of its own destiny in the 60s in what was called the Quiet Revolution. It could be argued that Maurice Richard played a role in inspiring Quebeckers to hold their chins up, as the first of a long line of french-canadian superstars who lead the Habs in the 50s, 60s and 70s. The Habs became more than a sports team. They were an example of what Quebec could achieve. People still want to be able to identify with their team. They want to connect with their team. The coach is the main point of contact between the team and the fans, so losing something in translation is simply not appealing.
The other facet is that Quebec is quite scared to lose its identity, its language and unique perspective. Quebec's 7 million or so francophones are surrounded by 300 million anglophones. Quebec has seen what happened to french minorities in the States and in Canada, and worries that the same could happen in Quebec. So Quebec takes measures to protect its culture. Measures that for some reason anger Canadians. As a symbol of French-Canadian emancipation, putting an anglophone in charge of the Habs would seem like not only stepping into the past, but also relinquishing a cultural flagship to the English tsunami.

 

[MSSLYNX]

I really don’t get the whole Anglophone vs Francophone thing. Maybe because I’m an American. If I were a Canadiens fan, I wouldn’t care who coached or played for the team as long as they won. I just don’t get it.

Dont worry. Its not really a thing.
Both franco and anglo in Mtl want a winning team.
Thing is anglos blame Bergevin for the Sergachev-Drouin deal. They were quite happy when they learned about the deal but now that Drouin fizzled last year, they say MB dealt for him because he was franco. Clearly not the case.
You will see that anglos blame french television and radio for « forcing » MB’s hand. So dumb.
There is a provincial election in a few months too. Political tensions tend to slide all the way to sports. If you dont know about the way Quebecers vote differetnly according to their language then i dont blame you for not getting it. Like our media dealing with Trump.

 

[rfournier103]

Understandable. It's not really a "vs" thing. No one hates each other. I wouldn't even say it's dislike. There is a certain amount of antagonism emanating from the fact that Quebec does things differently than Canada, from the fact anglophones ruled Quebec economically rather like a colony, and media like to play people up on that on both sides.
For the Habs though, you need to understand a little history. Canadiens literally meant "french-canadians" before the British in Canada began to identify as Canadians. Quebec took control of its own destiny in the 60s in what was called the Quiet Revolution. It could be argued that Maurice Richard played a role in inspiring Quebeckers to hold their chins up, as the first of a long line of french-canadian superstars who lead the Habs in the 50s, 60s and 70s. The Habs became more than a sports team. They were an example of what Quebec could achieve. People still want to be able to identify with their team. They want to connect with their team. The coach is the main point of contact between the team and the fans, so losing something in translation is simply not appealing.
The other facet is that Quebec is quite scared to lose its identity, its language and unique perspective. Quebec's 7 million or so francophones are surrounded by 300 million anglophones. Quebec has seen what happened to french minorities in the States and in Canada, and worries that the same could happen in Quebec. So Quebec takes measures to protect its culture. Measures that for some reason anger Canadians. As a symbol of French-Canadian emancipation, putting an anglophone in charge of the Habs would seem like not only stepping into the past, but also relinquishing a cultural flagship to the English tsunami.

Thank you for the very educational reply.

I happen to be of French-Canadian extraction myself, and I know a bit of the history - both historical and hockey. I just think that winning would be the most important thing for fans. That’s all...

Did anyone complain about Ken Dryden, Scotty Bowman, and Larry Robinson not being French? Seriously question.

 

[ismelofhockey]

The responses are rather lazy. Same thing over and over.

My responses are lazy? I've put in the time to support my arguments with facts. I took the time to list all of the recent coaches of the team and their accomplishments. I brought up Randy Cunneyworth and corrected 2 claims about him, mentioning articles and quotes. Your answer was to say "whatever, a lot of people think like me so I must be right" which is not an argument but a fallacy.
Maybe if you presented any facts of your own, I could add even more to the discussion. But as your claims so far have been limited to "focusing on French is bad", I can only answer that. It is not my fault your arguments lack rigor.

 

[MSSLYNX]

Thank you for the very educational reply.

I happen to be of French-Canadian extraction myself, and I know a bit of the history - both historical and hockey. I just think that winning would be the most important thing for fans. That’s all...

Did anyone complain about Ken Dryden, Scotty Bowman, and Larry Robinson not being French? Seriously question.

Yeah noticed the name!
Of course not. They were good.
But i could give you a list of francos who were drafted or traded for anddidnt develop. All got the: Habs drafted this guy only because he was French.

 

[ismelofhockey]

Thank you for the very educational reply.

I happen to be of French-Canadian extraction myself, and I know a bit of the history - both historical and hockey. I just think that winning would be the most important thing for fans. That’s all...

Did anyone complain about Ken Dryden, Scotty Bowman, and Larry Robinson not being French? Seriously question.

No, they didn't. But Larry Robinson and Ken Dryden learned French, and Habs fans would happily welcome a coach of Scotty Bowman's stature. The point is that if it's not going to be a Scotty Bowman, it may as well be a francophone. Because once you can't have the very best, all the other candidates are similar enough that picking a francophone will not hurt your chances of winning.

 

[sharknado]

Understandable. It's not really a "vs" thing. No one hates each other. I wouldn't even say it's dislike. There is a certain amount of antagonism emanating from the fact that Quebec does things differently than Canada, from the fact anglophones ruled Quebec economically rather like a colony, and media like to play people up on that on both sides.
For the Habs though, you need to understand a little history. Canadiens literally meant "french-canadians" before the British in Canada began to identify as Canadians. Quebec took control of its own destiny in the 60s in what was called the Quiet Revolution. It could be argued that Maurice Richard played a role in inspiring Quebeckers to hold their chins up, as the first of a long line of french-canadian superstars who lead the Habs in the 50s, 60s and 70s. The Habs became more than a sports team. They were an example of what Quebec could achieve. People still want to be able to identify with their team. They want to connect with their team. The coach is the main point of contact between the team and the fans, so losing something in translation is simply not appealing.
The other facet is that Quebec is quite scared to lose its identity, its language and unique perspective. Quebec's 7 million or so francophones are surrounded by 300 million anglophones. Quebec has seen what happened to french minorities in the States and in Canada, and worries that the same could happen in Quebec. So Quebec takes measures to protect its culture. Measures that for some reason anger Canadians. As a symbol of French-Canadian emancipation, putting an anglophone in charge of the Habs would seem like not only stepping into the past, but also relinquishing a cultural flagship to the English tsunami.

This is true for the previous generation like myself. The current generation that never experienced any of this doesn't and will never understand it unless they are given a history lesson about which should also include the racist remarks the Rocket had to endure on the ice. That is why I think the habs need to move on and let the previous generation scream as much as they want.

 

[MSSLYNX]

Habs signed some overage junior guy who was invited to their prospect camp last year and who had a great season this year.

Thing is he is a franco.

Go see the thread on Habs board. Didnt take long for « fans » to link that signing to the signing of another franco from the same team by Tampa.

Of course they say that signing is only « a backlash » of the Tampa signing. Crap.