How do you Rebuild... The Montreal Canadiens?

[illpucks]

Trade Shea Weber for a young Norris candidate

Dougie Hamilton?

 

[ismelofhockey]

What does my comment have to do with the Leafs?

I simply mentioned Montreal needs to end its discriminatory policy against anglophone GM's and Coaches.

That was my take on the question of this thread. No need to take it so personally.

I don't like lazy arguments. Montreal's language policy has nothing to do with the team's current state.

 

[Peiskos]

I don't like lazy arguments. Montreal's language policy has nothing to do with the team's current state.

Yes Montreal's long standing policy of rejecting 99% of the available GM's and Coaches just because they don't speak French has nothing to do with the team's current state. LOL.

 

[NoName]

Fire Bergevin, draft well, dont hate your russians.

Yep.

Unfortunately ownership has unequivocally indicated that zero of those three is actually going to happen.


The sad fact is that even if all three of those happen, Montreal is still shackled with paying Price and Weber nearly $20 million until 2026 (and Karl Alzner at $4.625 until 2022). They literally can't rebuild; not with that much money sunk into players that are that old. Honestly, I don't think there is a single team in a shi*tier position for building for the future then Montreal; at least teams like Chicago still have their overpaid stars like Kane producing and on the right side of 30... that and 3 Stanley Cups to comfort them in some lean years. Montreal screwed over their future for the next half decade at least... for nothing at all in the present.

The fact that Bergevin hasn't been fired but rather openly backed by Molson speaks volumes about ownership's stubbornness and unwillingness to admit making a mistake, and about the organization's unwillingness to look outside a very limited pool for management candidates.

I am glad I am not a Habs fan.

 

[ismelofhockey]

Yes Montreal's long standing policy of rejecting 99% of the available GM's and Coaches just because they don't speak French has nothing to do with the team's current state. LOL.

Did Toronto's long standing policy of rejecting 80% of the available GMs and coaches (all the European ones) have anything to do with the team's state at the time?
There are more than enough francophone candidates. Before he took over the Habs, Bergevin was just as qualified and well-regarded as Shanahan was before he took over the Leafs.
And tell me, how many coaches hired by the Habs didn't deserve the job? Just for fun, let's go back to the last Cup the Habs won. That should be a somewhat meaningful sample size, right?

Claude Julien: Stanley Cup, Olympic Gold, Jack Adams winner, President's Trophy winner, 18th in wins all time.
Michel Therrien: Stanley Cup Finals, NHL All-Star Team Head Coach, Jack Adams nominee, brought the Habs from last in the Northeast to first in his first season (second stint), and the ECF the following year. When he was fired the Habs were 1st in the Northeast.
Jacques Martin: 17th in wins all time, Jack Adams winner, President's Trophy winner, brought the Habs to the ECF
Guy Carbonneau: Jack Adams nominee
Bob Gainey (interim coach): Stanley Cup (as GM), Stanley Cup Finals
Alain Vigneault: 11th all time in wins, Jack Adams nominee (3), Jack Adams winner, President's Trophy winner (4), set Canucks franchise record for wins in a season, Stanley Cup Finals (2)
Mario Tremblay: pretty terrible, but his hiring had more to do with the fact he was an ex-Hab. He still remained in the league as an assistant for a long time after being fired.
Jacques Laperrière: Habs assistant coach for 16 years winning 2 Stanley Cups, was an assistant in the NHL for many more years with great success
Jacques Demers: Jack Adams winner (2), Stanley Cup winner

So tell me? Which ones did not deserve to get the job? Which ones were not good candidates? Mario Tremblay? So one out of the 9? Does that seem to support your argument that the Habs are picking poor candidates?
Well actually it's not as rosy as I make it out to be. There was one other coach who failed miserably as a coach of the Habs, even though he had paid his dues in the AHL and as an assistant. You may remember him: Randy Cunneyworth... Imagine that... the only anglo they hired was an abject failure, as the circus created by his hiring was a major distraction... It's almost as if the language policy is necessary... but that couldn't be, right?

So please, stop repeating this silly argument that language is holding the Habs back. It isn't holding Quebec back, and it isn't holding back its hockey team.

 

[GHJimmy]

1- Fire everyone not named Claude Julien, Stéphane Waite, Trevor Timmins and Kirk Muller.

2- Hire Patrick Roy as the President of Hockey Operations. Why? Because you don't want him to work as the GM, since he's madder than a hornet nest, but the guy HATES loosing. So you want him to keep everyone in check, without him taking any decisions. Heck, you can even hire him before firing Bergevin, just for the lolz.

3- Hire Julien Brisebois as the GM. French or english, he's probably the best soon-to-be GM right now.

4- Find a way to dump Carey Price, and Karl Alzner. Shae Weber with a cap hit of 7M$ is ok I guess right now. I LOVE Carey Price, but you just can't pay him that money for that many years. And Alzner is just goddawful.

5- Trade Pacioretty for something good. You won't get a center I guess, but another hole we have is on the LHD. So maybe we can do something here.

6- Throw money at Tavares. If he don't take it, try to throw some at Paul Statsny.

7- Hire Plakanec back at 3M$ for a year or two max.

8- Maybe we would need a human sacrifice.

9- Hope that Mete and Juulsen are ready for next years, because a lot will depends on them.

I love every part of this post if only a dumb not so social guy could see this! You explain the whole entire scheme of the organization!

 

[Lshap]

Did Toronto's long standing policy of rejecting 80% of the available GMs and coaches (all the European ones) have anything to do with the team's state at the time?
There are more than enough francophone candidates. Before he took over the Habs, Bergevin was just as qualified and well-regarded as Shanahan was before he took over the Leafs.
And tell me, how many coaches hired by the Habs didn't deserve the job? Just for fun, let's go back to the last Cup the Habs won. That should be a somewhat meaningful sample size, right?

Claude Julien: Stanley Cup, Olympic Gold, Jack Adams winner, President's Trophy winner, 18th in wins all time.
Michel Therrien: Stanley Cup Finals, NHL All-Star Team Head Coach, Jack Adams nominee, brought the Habs from last in the Northeast to first in his first season (second stint), and the ECF the following year. When he was fired the Habs were 1st in the Northeast.
Jacques Martin: 17th in wins all time, Jack Adams winner, President's Trophy winner, brought the Habs to the ECF
Guy Carbonneau: Jack Adams nominee
Bob Gainey (interim coach): Stanley Cup (as GM), Stanley Cup Finals
Alain Vigneault: 11th all time in wins, Jack Adams nominee (3), Jack Adams winner, President's Trophy winner (4), set Canucks franchise record for wins in a season, Stanley Cup Finals (2)
Mario Tremblay: pretty terrible, but his hiring had more to do with the fact he was an ex-Hab. He still remained in the league as an assistant for a long time after being fired.
Jacques Laperrière: Habs assistant coach for 16 years winning 2 Stanley Cups, was an assistant in the NHL for many more years with great success
Jacques Demers: Jack Adams winner (2), Stanley Cup winner

So tell me? Which ones did not deserve to get the job? Which ones were not good candidates? Mario Tremblay? So one out of the 9? Does that seem to support your argument that the Habs are picking poor candidates?
Well actually it's not as rosy as I make it out to be. There was one other coach who failed miserably as a coach of the Habs, even though he had paid his dues in the AHL and as an assistant. You may remember him: Randy Cunneyworth... Imagine that... the only anglo they hired was an abject failure, as the circus created by his hiring was a major distraction... It's almost as if the language policy is necessary... but that couldn't be, right?

So please, stop repeating this silly argument that language is holding the Habs back. It isn't holding Quebec back, and it isn't holding back its hockey team.

It's not about "Good" candidates. It's about the best candidate. When one team has a smaller pool of candidates to choose from, they inevitably end up with lesser talent. Because the best candidate will often be outside their smaller pool.

 

[Lshap]

I don't like lazy arguments. Montreal's language policy has nothing to do with the team's current state.

There is no actual language policy for the Habs. It's a marketing decision that adapts over time, and will adapt again.

 

[Deficient Mode]

All GMs are mediocre. The volatility of GM rankings in the public mind - how easily a GM can go from one of the worst to one of the best and vice versa - demonstrates this. I don't think the Habs are missing out on too much by not hiring from the English-only segments of the Old Boys Club.

 

[CupsOverCash]

Fire HC and GM. Stop being biased to french canadians. Suck for a couple of seasons and draft well. Get rid of unhelpful salary for hopefully draft picks. Build wisely in FA. Dont just sign players to make fans happy. Make the right moves. Oh and find a center lol.

 

[pheasant]

I have always said there are 4 C's of rebuilding. Collapse, collect, compete, contend. These 4 stages make up a rebuild, and each stage bleeds into the next on a little bit. Montreal is somewhere between collapse and collect.

The Habs have no choice but to stick with Weber and Price for the immediate future, so a full on "scorched earth" style rebuild is impossible. They can't collapse to the point of 1st overall picks, but they can still sell off assets and gain futures and cap space. In doing so, you also create many open roster spots. That is step 1.

Step 2 is to collect. That means getting more futures by taking on cap dumps. Have a high roster turnover. One year UFA deals that get flipped at the deadline. Waiver claims on guys who want one more shot. College and Euro league UFA's. Collect everything you can.

Stay in this stage until the team starts to compete. Players you drafted will make an impact, maybe a waiver claim or someone else becomes a legit contributor. Once you are competitive you fix holes, lock down key pieces, and soon try to contend.

 

[justafan22]

Have Price wave his NMC for Vancouver or wait for Seattle to take him in the draft (it's the only 2 places he'd eveer waive to since it's the closet to his hometown)

Trade Weber for prospect/picks

Trade pacioretty for a good package

Trade petry for picks

Get lucky in the lottery and draft and develop.

You can't really rebuild with the first two contracts on your roster

Oh, and turf everyone in management.

 

[ismelofhockey]

It's not about "Good" candidates. It's about the best candidate. When one team has a smaller pool of candidates to choose from, they inevitably end up with lesser talent. Because the best candidate will often be outside their smaller pool.

Yes, inevitably. That's why Montreal's list of coaches reads like a list of current or future hall of famers. That's why all NHL teams are rushing to hire European coaches, because they don't want to end up with lesser talent. They want "the best!" regardless of all other factors... Give it up. It just isn't true. There are more quality candidates than there are jobs. There is absolutely no proof than Montreal's francophone policy has hurt them. I challenge you to find proof. And when you're searching, try to remember Randy Cunneyworth. Try to remember that this is not a team in Arizona.

 

[Holymakinaw]

"Have Price wave his NMC for Vancouver or wait for Seattle to take him in the draft (it's the only 2 places he'd eveer waive to since it's the closet to his hometown)

Trade Weber for prospect/picks"



Problem with the above proposal is.........

- They have to HOPE that Seattle would want to take Carey Price and his contract.
- NO ONE will take Weber and his "8 million a year for all those years" contract. No way, Jose.

Montreal likely can't rebuild properly, because they cannot get out of those horrible deals.

 

[ismelofhockey]

There is no actual language policy for the Habs. It's a marketing decision that adapts over time, and will adapt again.

You've just described a policy...
If Joel Quenneville or Barry Trotz become available, or any other top coach, the team would IMO be able to make the fans accept it. But those guys are available once a generation, the Habs would have to have a vacancy at the time, and they would have to beat out the other teams with vacancies. It's not as if you snap your fingers and the best coach in the league suddenly works for you. The Habs have had great coaches. Whatever they're doing, language has not been a factor. Once again, prove me otherwise.

 

[Mallard]

The key is to build through the draft and draft well.

 

[MSSLYNX]

You've just described a policy...
If Joel Quenneville or Barry Trotz become available, or any other top coach, the team would IMO be able to make the fans accept it. But those guys are available once a generation, the Habs would have to have a vacancy at the time, and they would have to beat out the other teams with vacancies. It's not as if you snap your fingers and the best coach in the league suddenly works for you. The Habs have had great coaches. Whatever they're doing, language has not been a factor. Once again, prove me otherwise.

Was Randy Cunneyworth a good coach? He is the one they are referring to with the language crap plus now Jonathan Drouin because he has been playing poorly.
There is an election in The province this fall and the liberal party strongly linked to the anglophone votes is not doing well in polls outside of Montreal so that doesnt help quieting things down.

 

[ismelofhockey]

Was Randy Cunneyworth a good coach?

Who knows really. But one thing's sure, he was a terrible choice for the Montreal Canadiens. People act like the team operates in a vacuum. This isn't the Sun Belt. The Habs are more than a sports team.

 

[sharknado]

Did Toronto's long standing policy of rejecting 80% of the available GMs and coaches (all the European ones) have anything to do with the team's state at the time?
There are more than enough francophone candidates. Before he took over the Habs, Bergevin was just as qualified and well-regarded as Shanahan was before he took over the Leafs.
And tell me, how many coaches hired by the Habs didn't deserve the job? Just for fun, let's go back to the last Cup the Habs won. That should be a somewhat meaningful sample size, right?

Claude Julien: Stanley Cup, Olympic Gold, Jack Adams winner, President's Trophy winner, 18th in wins all time.
Michel Therrien: Stanley Cup Finals, NHL All-Star Team Head Coach, Jack Adams nominee, brought the Habs from last in the Northeast to first in his first season (second stint), and the ECF the following year. When he was fired the Habs were 1st in the Northeast.
Jacques Martin: 17th in wins all time, Jack Adams winner, President's Trophy winner, brought the Habs to the ECF
Guy Carbonneau: Jack Adams nominee
Bob Gainey (interim coach): Stanley Cup (as GM), Stanley Cup Finals
Alain Vigneault: 11th all time in wins, Jack Adams nominee (3), Jack Adams winner, President's Trophy winner (4), set Canucks franchise record for wins in a season, Stanley Cup Finals (2)
Mario Tremblay: pretty terrible, but his hiring had more to do with the fact he was an ex-Hab. He still remained in the league as an assistant for a long time after being fired.
Jacques Laperrière: Habs assistant coach for 16 years winning 2 Stanley Cups, was an assistant in the NHL for many more years with great success
Jacques Demers: Jack Adams winner (2), Stanley Cup winner

So tell me? Which ones did not deserve to get the job? Which ones were not good candidates? Mario Tremblay? So one out of the 9? Does that seem to support your argument that the Habs are picking poor candidates?
Well actually it's not as rosy as I make it out to be. There was one other coach who failed miserably as a coach of the Habs, even though he had paid his dues in the AHL and as an assistant. You may remember him: Randy Cunneyworth... Imagine that... the only anglo they hired was an abject failure, as the circus created by his hiring was a major distraction... It's almost as if the language policy is necessary... but that couldn't be, right?

So please, stop repeating this silly argument that language is holding the Habs back. It isn't holding Quebec back, and it isn't holding back its hockey team.

On your list of coaches, there is only 2 that has one the SC as a head coach.
If you really want to make a good case about which franco head coach did not deserve to get the job, you need to list all available coaches during the year that those 7 others coaches got hired.

 

[Peiskos]

Did Toronto's long standing policy of rejecting 80% of the available GMs and coaches (all the European ones) have anything to do with the team's state at the time?
There are more than enough francophone candidates. Before he took over the Habs, Bergevin was just as qualified and well-regarded as Shanahan was before he took over the Leafs.
And tell me, how many coaches hired by the Habs didn't deserve the job? Just for fun, let's go back to the last Cup the Habs won. That should be a somewhat meaningful sample size, right?

Claude Julien: Stanley Cup, Olympic Gold, Jack Adams winner, President's Trophy winner, 18th in wins all time.
Michel Therrien: Stanley Cup Finals, NHL All-Star Team Head Coach, Jack Adams nominee, brought the Habs from last in the Northeast to first in his first season (second stint), and the ECF the following year. When he was fired the Habs were 1st in the Northeast.
Jacques Martin: 17th in wins all time, Jack Adams winner, President's Trophy winner, brought the Habs to the ECF
Guy Carbonneau: Jack Adams nominee
Bob Gainey (interim coach): Stanley Cup (as GM), Stanley Cup Finals
Alain Vigneault: 11th all time in wins, Jack Adams nominee (3), Jack Adams winner, President's Trophy winner (4), set Canucks franchise record for wins in a season, Stanley Cup Finals (2)
Mario Tremblay: pretty terrible, but his hiring had more to do with the fact he was an ex-Hab. He still remained in the league as an assistant for a long time after being fired.
Jacques Laperrière: Habs assistant coach for 16 years winning 2 Stanley Cups, was an assistant in the NHL for many more years with great success
Jacques Demers: Jack Adams winner (2), Stanley Cup winner

So tell me? Which ones did not deserve to get the job? Which ones were not good candidates? Mario Tremblay? So one out of the 9? Does that seem to support your argument that the Habs are picking poor candidates?
Well actually it's not as rosy as I make it out to be. There was one other coach who failed miserably as a coach of the Habs, even though he had paid his dues in the AHL and as an assistant. You may remember him: Randy Cunneyworth... Imagine that... the only anglo they hired was an abject failure, as the circus created by his hiring was a major distraction... It's almost as if the language policy is necessary... but that couldn't be, right?

So please, stop repeating this silly argument that language is holding the Habs back. It isn't holding Quebec back, and it isn't holding back its hockey team.

Hmmm, why do you insinuate this was only Toronto's policy? it was common practice across the entire league to not hire European GM's. It was just the culture back in the day and many could argue it still is when you realize that to this day there is only 1 European GM in the NHL in Jarmo Kekalainen of the Columbus Blue Jackets.

 

[TeddyBare]

Like Bob McKenzie said.

"How many GM's believe in having a 10 figure salary cap player that can't score goals? Not many from the ones I've talked to"

 

[ismelofhockey]

Hmmm, why do you insinuate this was only Toronto's policy? it was common practice across the entire league to not hire European GM's. It was just the culture back in the day and many could argue it still is when you realize that to this day there is only 1 European GM in the NHL in Jarmo Kekalainen of the Columbus Blue Jackets.

Yeah, that's my point.

 

[filip85]

Pierre McGuire for GM

 

[lwvs84]

I would get a coach who is good at developing young guys. I'd limit/shut down Price for a year, I don't know if he has any lingering injuries but I'd make sure he comes back completely healthy. Trade any guys that won't be here in 3 years, get prospects/picks. I don't know how good the Montreal scouting department is, but if it isn't good... overhaul it. Build through the next 2-3 drafts, without Price in net the Canadiens should have a good draft pick. I know it would cost Montreal a LOT (benching 10 mil) but they probably can't move that contract so better to protect the investment and get another good pick. If you can move the big contracts, then do it... but I'm not sure how movable Weber and Price are at this point. Also, don't spend big on aging vet players. Keep some vets to help develop the young guys, but minimize the cost and term and let the kids start taking over.

 

[Capsguy312]

Stop trying to build a team on french canadiens. The habs are the most political and biased organization in the league.
And it's turned against them now over the years.