HF praises Chayka and sucks... Hate McPhee but he's killing it

[LeafFever]

Well I for one hated Chayka's offseason moves where he acquired vets in win-now moves rather than continuing with the hard rebuild for a few more seasons. I really dislike doing that too early.

I think they've had enough time to rebuild. How long will this take? They havde to sell something of a winning team to their fans.

 

[CartographerNo611]

Well that's how you win in 2017 in fairness. Bergevin should take note.
It's more other reasons why they are wrong.

Not really, its forwards back checking and having a goalie(s) get hot at the right time. Dumoulin, Cole, Matta, Hainsey, and 38 year old Streit were hardly ideal puck movers. Nashville had 4 puck movers that left Rinne exposed, not to mention Ellis is a midget and is cringey when he attempts to clear the crease.

 

[LeafFever]

Not really, its forwards back checking and having a goalie(s) get hot at the right time. Dumoulin, Cole, Matta, Hainsey, and 38 year old Streit were hardly ideal puck movers. Nashville had 4 puck movers that left Rinne exposed, not to mention Ellis is a midget and is cringey when he attempts to clear the crease.

Yeah but I'm talking about what Bergevin has doen overall. PK for Weber was the opposite type of move you should be doing. It's all about speed and skill. The big tough forwards are of less importance than in previous years.

 

[ColbyChaos]

"Don't Be Dumb"...Have you been following the Coyotees financial issues for the past 2 decades? What tells you they can afford to hand over an 8 year/80 contracts? They keep acquiring guys on LTIR to stay above the cap floor and not having to actually pay the players.

Do you know anything about a team that isnt toronto? They will be able to finacially keep oel its a bigger worry if he decides to test FA

 

[CartographerNo611]

Chayka is loved because he is a young stat jock and last name shares the first letter of Corsi, the biggest littlest stat that is all the rage these days.

 

[BlueBaron]

Just saying... so much for all the experts.

I'm a huge fan of what McPhee did... holding on to depth is looking pretty smart... injuries hit and did not miss a beat.

Waive Hunt they said hahaha

Your problem is you are looking at the Knight's strong start and taking it seriously when they do not give a crap about winning. Not everything McPhee did was bad but if you look at their roster it only has about 3-4 guys who will matter to the team long term. Fluery, Miller, Theodore and Maybe Ship? His big accomplishment cannot be seen on the ice and that was drafting 3 times in the first round. So you are looking at the wrong thing to rate him and you are kidding yourself if you think Vegas is a playoff team.

There are a lot of things we cannot account for with Vegas. What is it like in that locker room, how did Ship feel about missing those games? (did not care from what I have heard). How many guys want to be there. It will be years before wee can properly rate McPhee's job but his asset management has not always been the best. If he is still stuck with 10 D in a month your opinion may change. If you think this was his plan you are kidding yourself. It has not burned him yet, but they have had outstanding goaltending, surprising offense and in their defense they play a solid team game.

Chayka is a different story, his moves looked good on paper but have not translated to on ice success. He is probably overrated around here but this is HF so, it is what it is.

 

[member 290103]

Yeah, I don't get all the excitement about Chayka. So far the guy has just built a team that loses. I mean, on paper, he has done some things that the analytics boys are in love with, but should we not wait until the team is like....good, before we crown him a genius?

The team looks bad again this year. Assuming they finish poorly once again, the guy could very well be fired for all we know.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Chayka is loved because he is a young stat jock and last name shares the first letter of Corsi, the biggest littlest stat that is all the rage these days.

He's smart and ahead of the curve, just like me!

 

[GeeoffBrown]

The real test will be to see how the Knights' drafts turn out. In order to trade Forsberg for Erat, one first has to draft Forsberg. Also, he drafted most of the president's trophy winning Capitals.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Well, I think Vegas will hit a big wall eventually and drop like a brick in the standings. But fun start.

As for Chayka, yeah all the armchair GMs overrated him like crazy. I guess there's something with this board and always thinking youth is the most important and valuable factor in assessing someone's value? Oh and advanced stats! Look, he uses advanced stats! Genius!

 

[Ryan Michaels]

Always thought the Chayka praise was very foolish, still think he has made some good moves but he traded a top 10 pick in a "win now" move for a team that is still just garbage and should have been stockpiling picks. And as many have stated before calling Chaykra a "top 3 gm" before he had even gotten his team out of the basement just because he is managing like an hfboards user was madness. Still think/know McPhee sucks lets not get too excited about Vegas' record yet there is a lot of season left to go.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

Coyotes are the perfect example of a team that has the pressure of "we're supposed to be good now", mixed with bad goaltending and lack of depth. Raanta and Chychrun out does not help. Add in learning a new system that im not so sure how good it is at least defensively, and new faces on the team, and there you have it. Basically all boxes ticked for a bad start.

Completely opposite from Vegas, that is not afraid to lose, play a simple team-oriented system and doesn't get down on themselves when they don't have the lead or whatever happens in a game. Add in a favorable schedule with bunch of road teams coming on 3in4's, bunch of struggling teams and the element of surprise (clearly teams have had a feel out process again them, not much pre-scouting going on at least from the playoff teams) + goalies stepping up and there you have it. All boxes ticked for a good start.

None of this means McPhee is a better GM than Chayka.

It's funny how much crap Chayka gets right now. He's done a lot of moves with the right idea, he's trying to improve the team, and when the results aren't there for 8 games, people love to bash him.

Everybody wanted Tippett out and more offensive oriented style where the young guys could thrive. Everybody knows without good veteran players a young losing team isn't going anywhere. Everybody knows they have to be able to hold on to their best asset that is OEL and can't afford to let him walk.

Chayka did something about all those things. All his moves made sense. And just because they've had a terrible start, doesn't mean no positive things moving forward. It's clear they're not a complete team yet, but rarely do teams become playoff teams overnight. You add piece by piece, make evaluations each summer and try to improve your team. At some point, it'll start paying off.

People act like turning a rebuilding bottom team into a playoff team (without drafting a superstar) in one summer is easier than to have good first 7 games with a team nobody expects anything of. And don't be kidding yourself, Vegas will drop down like a rock sooner than you know it.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

Always thought the Chayka praise was very foolish, still think he has made some good moves but he traded a top 10 pick in a "win now" move for a team that is still just garbage and should have been stockpiling picks. And as many have stated before calling Chaykra a "top 3 gm" before he had even gotten his team out of the basement just because he is managing like an hfboards user was madness. Still think/know McPhee sucks lets not get too excited about Vegas' record yet there is a lot of season left to go.

"Stockpiling picks" have to stop somewhere. They've done it for a long time now, and like half of their roster are young guys. They weren't getting a McDavid in the draft, or anything remotely close to that.

It's easy to talk in hindsight what they should have done or not do, but you can never win anything in this league unless you try to actually improve your team. Drafting a full roster isn't going to happen.

I don't know why people have a such time understand how hard it is to turn a losing team into a winning one. Leafs had 2 wins in their first 9 games last year. And they had a very similar start, can't keep leads. It's a learning curve, and the Yotes don't even have their #1 goalie in net, or #3 dman in the lineup.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

While we're making stupid proclamations based on a small number of the most chaotic games of the season, let's also pretend the Oilers and Habs are actually bottom 3 teams in the league, and that Detroit is better than Washington.

It's funny how much crap Chayka gets right now. He's done a lot of moves with the right idea, he's trying to improve the team, and when the results aren't there for 8 games, people love to bash him.

Chayka gets a lot of crap because people who failed grade 8 math find numbers threatening and will use any opportunity available to argue against them and people who are associated with them.

 

[bukwas]

There weren't many of us here(theres a poll out there somewhere) who respected how McPhee handled the expansion draft. I liked that he was building a team with drive and character with the odd trade chip and consideration for the future.

 

[LeafFever]

Do you know anything about a team that isnt toronto? They will be able to finacially keep oel its a bigger worry if he decides to test FA

You think Arizona will habve no problem handing over 80 million? Do you follow hockey at all? I have been following the Coyotees financial situation since 1996. It seems I know more about the Coyotees than you do.
It's odd to me that a discussion in which you claim of all teams Arizona has no money issues you ask if someone follows any hockey outside Toronto. You would think we were discussing the New York Rangers with your response.

 

[ColbyChaos]

You think Arizona will habve no problem handing over 80 million? Do you follow hockey at all? I have been following the Coyotees financial situation since 1996. It seems I know more about the Coyotees than you do.
It's odd to me that a discussion in which you claim of all teams Arizona has no money issues you ask if someone follows any hockey outside Toronto. You would think we were discussing the New York Rangers with your response.

For their franchise player yes. They already have no problem paying Boland, Stepan and others, OEL likely wont get 10x8 80 million deal I could see him making 8.5-9 range which considering his salary for next season is already 7 million it is no where near as much of a hurdle as your making it.

 

[LeafFever]

For their franchise player yes. They already have no problem paying Boland, Stepan and others, OEL likely wont get 10x8 80 million deal I could see him making 8.5-9 range which considering his salary for next season is already 7 million it is no where near as much of a hurdle as your making it.

None of those players are making anything close to what OEL will get.
So I don't follow hockey outside Toronto? It's outrageous to say of all teams Arizona can't afford 80 million. What in the world are you talking about?

 

[aufheben]

It's not even Halloween yet lol

 

[NORiculous]

Great for the new team to have a good start. Let’s see how it goes from here.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Isn't Chayka some sort of analytics darling? No wonder segments of HF think the world of him. He basically runs an NHL club like they would.

 

[airbus220]

Chayka was late to the party to sign a coaching staff, but that's on the owner when coaching is the most important.

 

[Nalens Oga]

Meh I'd still rather have Chayka than GMGM based on the moves they've made. I do however think that Chayka isn't as good as people assume and GMGM isn't as bad as people say.

One of the issues with Chayka.....is that he has a supposed analytics background but his work was never public so we have no idea exactly what his analytics background is. The analytics guys on twitter, they're all mostly doing something useful or another but you can clearly point to some of them and say they're idiots with idiotic opinions and poor interpretations while others are respectable and I have no idea which camp Chayka would fall into because we just don't know him.

 

[airbus220]

Well I for one hated Chayka's offseason moves where he acquired vets in win-now moves rather than continuing with the hard rebuild for a few more seasons. I really dislike doing that too early.

Wasn't that the owners decision.

 

[ColbyChaos]

None of those players are making anything close to what OEL will get.
So I don't follow hockey outside Toronto? It's outrageous to say of all teams Arizona can't afford 80 million. What in the world are you talking about?

Arizona will resign OEL (as much as it upsets you) no point going further since youre already convinced they cant afford to give him a raise close to what Subban makes.