Pre-Game Talk: Hawks in the SENS Den, Tues 7:30 pm on TSN

[Langdon Alger]

Since when was it that hard to replace a 40 pt forward?

He’s better than that and you know it. He’s played on awful teams the last two years. Put him with a Stone for a full year? He’s going to put up more than 40 points.

 

[Shruggs Peterson]

Since when was it that hard to replace a 40 pt forward?

Look at what this team gave up to get him. Why would EK stay if Duchene walks? Brassard assumes the #1C role as a 32 year old and the depth on forward (barring a surprise) looks more or less what it is today, which isn't good.

 

[Engineer]

He’s better than that and you know it. He’s played on awful teams the last two years. Put him with a Stone for a full year? He’s going to put up more than 40 points.

Maybe, maybe not. He was a 40 pt player last year, he is barely on pace for it this year. Flashy doesn't always lead to points, as any Sens fan should know after watching the last 10 weeks of hockey.

What we gave up should equal a player who can change the fate of a game on his own, aka a clear cut 1A center.

What did we get? A maybe 40 pt player.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Since when was it that hard to replace a 40 pt forward?

Duchene may have lower production recently, but he was not brought in to be a 40 pt player and the Sens did not give up the bundle they gave up for "a 40 pt forward" If he was a run of the mill 40 pt player ... sure but I don't think we can look at Duchene like that

 

[Engineer]

Duchene may have lower production recently, but he was not brought in to be a 40 pt player and the Sens did not give up the bundle they gave up for "a 40 pt forward" If he was a run of the mill 40 pt player ... sure but I don't think we can look at Duchene like that

To play devils advocate.

Seabrook wasn't paid to be a healthy scratch, and Toews wasn't given 10.5 M to be a 50 point player.

Regardless of what we paid and what we received, is he as valuable as our pro-scouts thought?

 

[Langdon Alger]

Maybe, maybe not. He was a 40 pt player last year, he is barely on pace for it this year. Flashy doesn't always lead to points, as any Sens fan should know after watching the last 10 weeks of hockey.

What we gave up should equal a player who can change the fate of a game on his own, aka a clear cut 1A center.

What did we get? A maybe 40 pt player.

He played for the worst team in the league last year. He had 59 points the year before that. You think he’s regressing at age 26? He had 10 points in 14 games before he came here. He’s been much better lately, but overall he’s struggled. You think this will continue? He’s going to be a 40 point guy for the foreseeable future?

He’s played on two of the worst teams in the league the last two years. That contributes to it. No question. He’s going to score more than 40 points here next year. Don’t be silly.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

To play devils advocate.

Seabrook wasn't paid to be a healthy scratch, and Toews wasn't given 10.5 M to be a 50 point player.

Regardless of what we paid and what we received, is he as valuable as our pro-scouts thought?

I thought we overpaid for him... I have no idea what our pro scouts thought.

 

[Engineer]

He played for the worst team in the league last year.

Yes, he was the 1A center on the worst team in the league.

He had 59 points the year before that. You think he’s regressing at age 26? He had 10 points in 14 games before he came here. He’s been much better lately, but overall he’s struggled. You think this will continue? He’s going to be a 40 point guy for the foreseeable future?

It wouldn't be the first time a player has regressed prematurely

He’s played on two of the worst teams in the league the last two years. That contributes to it. No question. He’s going to score more than 40 points here next year. Don’t be silly.

Ottawa was a top 10 team when he arrived.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Talent wise .. I think Duchene is our most talented forward. .. Stone is our best forward but Duchene is our most talented imo.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Talent wise .. I think Duchene is our most talented forward. .. Stone is our best forward but Duchene is our most talented imo.

Agreed

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Yes, he was the 1A center on the worst team in the league.
It wouldn't be the first time a player has regressed prematurely
Ottawa was a top 10 team when he arrived.

You realize this is not like a logical proof.. you are not going to convincingly mount an argument that is going to sway opinion on this front... Do we want Duchene to stay.? Some will say yes and have their reasons and some will say no and have theirs.. its not like math.

 

[Rodzilla]

I cannot understand neither will I ever understand the management of this team

Craig Anderson is one of the most annoying player I’ve watched. Watch my post history, why can’t he just be average ? All or nothing. Why are we banking on a 35+ goalie with no technique ? I cannot understand why Andy wasn’t traded back then when his value was at a high and we had 2 good young goalies.

Mistakes after mistakes, do these guys just not see them or do they act like we’re fools? Man that 2nd goal pissed me the f*** off, how can you say this wasn’t a back breaker? Jesus give me a break.

Our goalies are garbage, and it’s unnacceptable, as bad as this team has been, the goalies are a hugeee part of it, how many games did they cost us?

Oh I am pissed, I gave up on this season but some things just get me triggered

 

[Nalens Oga]

Duchene is a great 1B centre or winger probably, the problem is that a team would need an actual 1A centre to play above him so it's a puzzling move for Ottawa. Adding him to the team even with Turris (who himself is closer to a 1B) would've worked but just using him to replace Turris and then asking him to be the go-to was a bad recipe.

 

[Engineer]

You realize this is not like a logical proof.. you are not going to convincingly mount an argument that is going to sway opinion on this front... Do we want Duchene to stay.? Some will say yes and have their reasons and some will say no and have theirs.. its not like math.

Logical proof of what? That he isn't a 40 pt player? Saying he was on the worst team last year and this year isn't logical proof that he is better than a 40 pt player. I also never claimed it is logical proof of anything.

Some might argue that since he is more relied upon as the 1A center on a garbage team, that the extra ice-time he is afforded should lead to additional points. This has been witnessed with players moving from teams like Arizona, especially defenseman, where they are highly regarded and they underperform when traded to a talented team, yes I'm aware that Duchene isn't a defenseman before you call that out.

Are you trying to argue that he hasn't had the opportunity to play with talented players on Ottawa? Mark Stone has 40 points in 40 games. Point per game. This bottom three team has a player outperforming Patrik Laine who is a superstar member of a top 5 team in the league, yet the centerman can't put up points. Maybe it's the player, not the team.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Yes, he was the 1A center on the worst team in the league.

Who were his linemates? Maybe playing on a bad team means your production goes down and you don’t have much confidence in yourself or your teammates.

It wouldn't be the first time a player has regressed prematurely

Two off years on bad teams. Do you think playing on bad teams has nothing to do with this? Are you kidding me?

Ottawa was a top 10 team when he arrived.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Logical proof of what? That he isn't a 40 pt player? Saying he was on the worst team last year and this year isn't logical proof that he is better than a 40 pt player. I also never claimed it is logical proof of anything.

Some might argue that since he is more relied upon as the 1A center on a garbage team, that the extra ice-time he is afforded should lead to additional points. This has been witnessed with players moving from teams like Arizona, especially defenseman, where they are highly regarded and they underperform when traded to a talented team, yes I'm aware that Duchene isn't a defenseman before you call that out.

Are you trying to argue that he hasn't had the opportunity to play with talented players on Ottawa? Mark Stone has 40 points in 40 games. Point per game. This bottom three team has a player outperforming Patrik Laine who is a superstar member of a top 5 team in the league, yet the centerman can't put up points. Maybe it's the player, not the team.

I am not trying to argue. Just my opinion is we should try to keep him. I like him as a player. Some others, possibly you, do not.

 

[Engineer]

I am not trying to argue. Just my opinion is we should try to keep him. I like him as a player. Some others, possibly you, do not.

I'm just having a discussion, no arguements implied or intended, I'm of the opinion that he should probably be retained as well, but I really don't think he is worth the 7M+ he will want.

 

[Langdon Alger]

I'm just having a discussion, no arguements implied or intended, I'm of the opinion that he should probably be retained as well, but I really don't think he is worth the 7M+ he will want.

No, but he’s probably going to get at least 6 years at 6 million per. They gave up so much to get him. It’s like the Ryan deal. Give up a lot for a guy who needs an extension soon. He’ll get it unless he wants to move on.

 

[Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk]

I don't want to give more then 5 mil for Dooche. I know he'll command more, but he's a f***ing Tamagotchi. He makes cute noises and flashes and does pretty things but then you just spent $30 on an egg that'll sit on the bench for six years.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I'm just having a discussion, no arguements implied or intended, I'm of the opinion that he should probably be retained as well, but I really don't think he is worth the 7M+ he will want.

fair enough... I think the Sens problems start and end on bigger issues than Matt Duchene. ... He's the guy Dorion went out and got and went all in on.. Was that the right thing to do..I do not know, and I am not going to defend that.. We will need a player in that role.. He could be that player .. If there is a better option or a plan that does not include him .. fine.. Thing is I do not see a plan with the team .. I see a somewhat inexperienced GM making what I think are mistakes and ..he has overestimated the capability of the team to contend. With our owner and the bad contracts he inherited he has a hell of a lot of work to do to right this ship. Duchene is not really part of the problem imo. Dorion's decision making has to improve going forward.

 

[Tundraman]

Our 2 goalies have serious rebound control issues. They put the puck in dangerous areas almost every time. The book on our goalies has to be just put the puck at their pads and go for the rebound or try a wraparound. Just from memory at least 3 goals against tonight were on a 2nd shot right after a bad rebound. That doesn't include the 2nd chances that didn't go in. What's going on those are rookie goalie mistakes.

 

[Engineer]

fair enough... I think the Sens problems start and end on bigger issues than Matt Duchene. ... He's the guy Dorion went out and got and went all in on.. Was that the right thing to do..I do not know, and I am not going to defend that.. We will need a player in that role.. He could be that player .. If there is a better option or a plan that does not include him .. fine.. Thing is I do not see a plan with the team .. I see a somewhat inexperienced GM making what I think are mistakes and ..he has overestimated the capability of the team to contend. With our owner and the bad contracts he inherited he has a hell of a lot of work to do to right this ship. Duchene is not really part of the problem imo. Dorion's decision making has to improve going forward.

Yeah, I agree with the majority of this. I suppose the concern is whether or not Duchene becomes an issue with a long term extension (like Ryan)

He inherited bad contracts, but he's starting to pile them on as well... Anderson.. Condon... Boro possibly.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Yeah, I agree with the majority of this. I suppose the concern is whether or not Duchene becomes an issue with a long term extension (like Ryan)

He inherited bad contracts, but he's starting to pile them on as well... Anderson.. Condon... Boro possibly.

Agreed imo he's made several misjudgments, on top of the bad contracts he inherited.. Burrows extension. Extending Andy so early in the year, Condon .. top backup $ and term, giving away draft picks like candy .. All with the knowledge he had to resign Stone, Ceci and Karlsson, three very important pieces and now Duchene who he paid dearly to exchange for Turris and buy 6.5 million cost certainty for 1 year and in the same window Brassard needs a new deal. I cannot come close to figuring out wtf his plan is. He has hindered a rebuild by giving away so many picks and they will have to sell assets and figure out who they are going to keep. We may get a lottery pick this year and give one up next year.

 

[Langdon Alger]

14 wins in 41 games played. A -33 goal differential.

Party on Wayne!

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

14 wins in 41 games played. A -33 goal differential.

Party on Wayne!