Have the canucks quietly built up a solid prospect pool?

[PuckMunchkin]

You can sign soft 50-60 point players free whichever year in particular year you need em

I feel Jake may have 25-25 in him with crushing legal hits and big forechecking turnover numbers. I’d rather that even if nylander got to 80 reg season and playoff pansy.

I don't think I understand your point well enough to continue trying to discuss this.

 

[CanaFan]

You can sign soft 50-60 point players free whichever year in particular year you need em

I feel Jake may have 25-25 in him with crushing legal hits and big forechecking turnover numbers. I’d rather that even if nylander got to 80 reg season and playoff pansy.

Actually signing a 60 pt UFA - even a soft one - isn’t that easy. There’s only about ~70 players who score 60 pts in a season, which means about 2 per team. So when a couple do get to UFA, you are competing with numerous other teams and often overpaying. Loui Eriksson was our last attempt at signing a 60 pt UFA and that turned out so well.

On the other hand bangers and crashers can be found on waivers, UFA, and acquired reasonably cheaply in trade, if you really feel you need one. Maybe not 25-25 ones but then Jake isn’t close to that player either. Besides, if you assume Jake can figure his shit out and go from being a 10-10 guy to a 25-25 guy someday then maybe you should be equally generous and assume Nylander might improve his game also. Jake isn’t the only one who should get the benefit of the doubt if you’re actually trying to be objective.

 

[sting101]

Actually signing a 60 pt UFA - even a soft one - isn’t that easy. There’s only about ~70 players who score 60 pts in a season, which means about 2 per team. So when a couple do get to UFA, you are competing with numerous other teams and often overpaying. Loui Eriksson was our last attempt at signing a 60 pt UFA and that turned out so well.

On the other hand bangers and crashers can be found on waivers, UFA, and acquired reasonably cheaply in trade, if you really feel you need one. Maybe not 25-25 ones but then Jake isn’t close to that player either. Besides, if you assume Jake can figure his **** out and go from being a 10-10 guy to a 25-25 guy someday then maybe you should be equally generous and assume Nylander might improve his game also. Jake isn’t the only one who should get the benefit of the doubt if you’re actually trying to be objective.

Fair enough but your talking about a player that is 1st line with Matthews vs a guy that is being brought along so that he can be effective enough to play more than 9 10 minutes a game on 3rd and 4th lines.

The room for advancement would seem to favor Virtanen would it not objectively?

 

[CanaFan]

Fair enough but your talking about a player that is 1st line with Matthews vs a guy that is being brought along so that he can be effective enough to play more than 9 10 minutes a game on 3rd and 4th lines.

The room for advancement would seem to favor Virtanen would it not objectively?

Not really. I’d always give the nod to a guy who is an effective NHLer at age 21 over the guy who still hasn’t even shown he CAN play more than 9-10 effective minutes a night.

Some players take a couple years to get comfortable with the intensity of playoff hockey. Even a guy like Joe Sakic had a slow start to his playoff career (11 pts in 12 games) before going on to be one of the top playoff performers of his generation.

Nylander May never get there but a) He’s closer than Jake today, and b) Jake may never get there either.

 

[Ryan Miller*]

Think "solid" is the keyword here.

With hopefully Boqvist in the pool after this draft, Benning will have a done a remarkable job acquiring impressive depth at almost every position: LW in Dahlen/Gadojovich, C in Gaudette/Pettersson, RW in Boeser/Lind, LHD in Juolevi/Brisebois, RHD in Boqvist/Stecher, G in Demko/Dipietro. Remarkable planning and execution in 4 years, really.

Meanwhile, if drafting was left to the armchair GM's, we would have a collection of BPA's, or in other words, a half-dozen 5'10 wingers who put up nice stats but leave our team looking like a poor man's Edmonton Oilers.

 

[Shareefruck]

Why did you bother to clarify that "solid" was the keyword here if you were just going to proceed to argue that it was a "remarkable" job acquiring "impressive" depth?

 

[brokenhole]

Why did you bother to clarify that "solid" was the keyword here if you were just going to proceed to argue that it was a "remarkable" job acquiring "impressive" depth?

The Gadojovich's the Lind's the Brisbois's.

 

[Shareefruck]

The Gadojovich's the Lind's the Brisbois's.

Huh?

 

[Toxic0n]

Think "solid" is the keyword here.

With hopefully Boqvist in the pool after this draft, Benning will have a done a remarkable job acquiring impressive depth at almost every position: LW in Dahlen/Gadojovich, C in Gaudette/Pettersson, RW in Boeser/Lind, LHD in Juolevi/Brisebois, RHD in Boqvist/Stecher, G in Demko/Dipietro. Remarkable planning and execution in 4 years, really.

Thanks, I needed a good laugh after a rough afternoon at work.

 

[brokenhole]

Huh?

That's Linden speak on the 2nd tier of prospects.

 

[Shareefruck]

That's Linden speak on the 2nd tier of prospects.

Okay.... but what does that have to do with anything? We're talking about the prospect pool as a whole being solid, not some individual prospects being solid.

If the prospect pool has been impressive and remarkable, it seemed strange to me to even bother giving a disclaimer that "solid" is the key word.

 

[CanaFan]

Think "solid" is the keyword here.

With hopefully Boqvist in the pool after this draft, Benning will have a done a remarkable job acquiring impressive depth at almost every position: LW in Dahlen/Gadojovich, C in Gaudette/Pettersson, RW in Boeser/Lind, LHD in Juolevi/Brisebois, RHD in Boqvist/Stecher, G in Demko/Dipietro. Remarkable planning and execution in 4 years, really.

Meanwhile, if drafting was left to the armchair GM's, we would have a collection of BPA's, or in other words, a half-dozen 5'10 wingers who put up nice stats but leave our team looking like a poor man's Edmonton Oilers.

Ya cause it would be terrible to have Tkachuk on LW instead of Jonah Gadjovich or Nylander on RW instead of Virtanen. Truly you’ve destroyed the fallacy of drafting BPA.

Post of the year.

 

[Disappointed EP40]

Over time, you see the canucks quietly just building a great prospect pool.

I'm excited to see Demkos NHL career start and have to assume he gets 30 games this season. Boeser has proven himself to be a beast etc.

How does the Canucks prospect pool stack up vs the rest of the NHL? Is it top 5 at this point?

Not top 5. Laughable to suggest. Somewhere around the middle for now. Zero D prospects cannot make a good pool.

 

[Disappointed EP40]

That's an opinion, but not shared by very many of the prospect sites or scouting services. They all have the Canucks solidly within the top-10 of NHL teams in terms of their prospect pools, with some sites having them as a high as #5 overall. Another solid draft in 2018 and they'll be easily in the top-five.

“Some sites”.... can you link ? I’m genuinely curious on their research/logic/statistical comparisons.

 

[Shareefruck]

Ya cause it would be terrible to have Tkachuk on LW instead of Jonah Gadjovich or Nylander on RW instead of Virtanen. Truly you’ve destroyed the fallacy of drafting BPA.

Post of the year.

It's especially nonsensical when you consider that the non-BPA picks that we made are probably a little closer (but admittedly still not that close) to 5'10'' wingers that resemble the Oilers than the BPAs at the time.

Virtanen, Boeser, Juolevi, Pettersson
vs.
Nylander/Ehlers, Boeser, Tkachuk, Glass

Push come to shove, the latter is the physically stronger and grittier group of players.

 

[Shareefruck]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing in favor of drafting BPA, but that (and your reasoning in general) looks pretty selective and inaccurate.

Makar was not available to us, Keller was ranked behind Juolevi in most prospect rankings, I don't recall there being a clear favorite when you got all the way down to 23rd overall with the Boeser pick (although I do remember some people wanting Konecny, who by the way is doing pretty well), where is the Pettersson/Glass pick, and where did you get Hughes from?

Tkachuk and Glass were pretty clear favorites in Vancouver from what I remember. Both are the opposite of what you're describing. Pettersson is better than Glass (although it's not like the latter has looked any less promising than he did before), but he seems to fit the mold of soft/skilled Oilers-esque player that you're dismissing a lot more than Glass does.

Even if someone thinks that Benning has done a good job, these are just bizarre and unfounded conclusions to draw.

 

[CanaFan]

Nice revisionism. At the end of the day, this would be the starting line-up of the HF Vancouver BPA team.

Nylander-Keller-Konecny
Makar-Hughes

Doesn’t look half bad.

Also are you saying Pettersson wasn’t a BPA pick? Benning chose him cause of his position rather than his talent level?

Weird argument but ok.

 

[ChilliBilly]

Not top 5. Laughable to suggest. Somewhere around the middle for now. Zero D prospects cannot make a good pool.

Zero? Juolevi, Brisebois, Tryamkin, Rathbone, Brassard ... We have a ton of prospects, and Juolevi is lock to play in the NHL. He probably should have gone about 9 instead of 5, and her certainly isn't setting the world on fire. Of course, Tryamkin will be a very good NHL player someday, hopefully with us. the rest are, of course, "prospects". If even one of them becomes a regular NHLer is sort of 50 - 50.

Instead of zero, saying we have rather dismal D man future set of prospects would have been a lot more accurate.

 

[Hit the post]

Instead of zero, saying we have rather dismal D man future set of prospects would have been a lot more accurate.

True but to be fair, there isn't a huge difference between the two statements is there?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Think "solid" is the keyword here.

With hopefully Boqvist in the pool after this draft, Benning will have a done a remarkable job acquiring impressive depth at almost every position: LW in Dahlen/Gadojovich, C in Gaudette/Pettersson, RW in Boeser/Lind, LHD in Juolevi/Brisebois, RHD in Boqvist/Stecher, G in Demko/Dipietro. Remarkable planning and execution in 4 years, really.

Meanwhile, if drafting was left to the armchair GM's, we would have a collection of BPA's, or in other words, a half-dozen 5'10 wingers who put up nice stats but leave our team looking like a poor man's Edmonton Oilers.

But most teams have better depth then we do...

 

[Ryan Miller*]

But most teams have better depth then we do...

Examples? If you are seeking thoughtful responses from me to your ideas, please try to articulate your point all at once, and in depth, rather than needing constant prodding by others to form your argument for you.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

For the hell of it,I compiled my picks in the last 4 drafts...My pick for 2016 was PLD,but he was taken by CBJ,my second choice was Matt Tkachuk.

Me:.....Nylander,Merkley,Tkachuk,Glass

Canucks.....Virtanen,Boeser,Juolevi,Petterson

My picks look good,but the Canucks picks have two players that have elite potential.

 

[Nucker101]

For the hell of it,I compiled my picks in the last 4 drafts...My pick for 2016 was PLD,but he was taken by CBJ,my second choice was Matt Tkachuk.

Me:.....Nylander,Merkley,Tkachuk,Glass

Canucks.....Virtanen,Boeser,Juolevi,Petterson

My picks look good,but the Canucks picks have two players that have elite potential.

I’m in the same boat as you with those picks except I had Ehlers.

 

[Canucks1096]

However going back to the original statements, Gadjovich is only 19 and is more likely to have higher upside (potential) than what Canucks1096 originally stated (4th liner or career AHLer). I feel my statement is more realistic based on his age and ability to develop, improve, and translate his skills into the NHL.

Only 20% of second round picks actually make it to the nhl. Saying he can be more than bottom 6 forward is being Optimistic. Being a 4th liners is still better than 80% of second round picks. Not sure how that is being pessimistic.

Back in 2014 the Province top 10 list half of them didn't even make it to the nhl. That includes Jensen, Shinkaruk, Schroeder, Cederholm, Cassels

It is what it is. Not all of the top prospects will make a big impact.

 

[Hit the post]

Back in 2014 the Province top 10 list half of them didn't even make it to the nhl. That includes Jensen, Shinkaruk, Schroeder, Cederholm, Cassels

Actually Schroeder played for a playoff team (Blue Jackets) for 20+ games this past season. Season before, he had a similiar function (depth/black ace) for another playoff team.