Have the canucks quietly built up a solid prospect pool?

[coastal_nuck]

When you have been a bottom feeder for a few years, you better damn well have a half decent prospect pool. The funny thing is, this is what the majority of fans in Vancouver hang their hat on when judging the state of this team when in fact, the prospect pool could have been a lot better if they made some better decisions in the first round the past few years. (Nylander or Ehlers vs Virtanen, Tkachuk vs Joulevi, McGann, etc).

Anyway, we always think that our prospect pool looks great but not all prospects pan out. I'm optimistic about our pool but I'm not going to prematurely conclude that they will end up at the top of their potential.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I agree somewhat, but I'm not sure if every player can technically have the potential to be a top line NHLer (potential is having or showing the capacity to become or develop into something in the future). An example could be Matt Brassard, our 19 year old, last year's 7th round pick, does he technically have the potential to be a top line NHLer? No, he hasn't shown the capacity to be one, or he would have been drafted higher.

However going back to the original statements, Gadjovich is only 19 and is more likely to have higher upside (potential) than what Canucks1096 originally stated (4th liner or career AHLer). I feel my statement is more realistic based on his age and ability to develop, improve, and translate his skills into the NHL.

What are you basing this bolded part on?

 

[krutovsdonut]

seems like an academic discussion looking at a prospect pool as if it is going to do something.

i have never seen our drafted prospect pool come on all at once and i've never seen a core where the key pieces were all draft picks. history tells us it is a mix of drafts and trades, and the way it usually happens is a couple of guys are good, and then another guy, and then another guy, and there are some supporting pieces and it finally clicks and is better than the sum of its parts for a while.

 

[Superlative Soup]

Not overly. One of the worst defensive prospect pools in the league.

 

[Scott Stevens]

You can always find big guys to goon it up in the FA.
Finding skill is much harder. Virtanen over Nylander was questionable when it happened, its utter madness to defend it now that we know what Nylander turned in to.

A shrinking violet in the playoffs.
I am tired of presidents’ trophies for regular season excellence.

 

[Krnuckfan]

A shrinking violet in the playoffs.
I am tired of presidents’ trophies for regular season excellence.

What the hell has virtanen ever done in the playoffs or in pressure filled situations for that matter (eg. wjc) that would indicate to you that he would perform well?

 

[Hit the post]

I am tired of presidents’ trophies for regular season excellence.

Have to learn to walk before you run (have to make the playoffs first - we have trouble getting out of being in lottery pick contention).

 

[Scott Stevens]

What the hell has virtanen ever done in the playoffs or in pressure filled situations for that matter (eg. wjc) that would indicate to you that he would perform well?

Just the fact he hasn’t failed yet
Hope to see one day
29 is already a known thing after two years of watching

Caveat- the game keeps getting softer and softer and softer and players can play with full confidence of never being hit.

Advantage Willie

 

[PuckMunchkin]

A shrinking violet in the playoffs.
I am tired of presidents’ trophies for regular season excellence.

You don't need to worry about Presidents' trophies for a long time.

Wonder if Toronto would trade Matthews for Virtanen. Only 1+1 in 7 games.

 

[CanaFan]

You don't need to worry about Presidents' trophies for a long time.

Wonder if Toronto would trade Matthews for Virtanen. Only 1+1 in 7 games.

Maybe offer them Gadjovich instead. He’s big and tough and hasn’t failed in the NHL playoffs yet.

 

[Scott Stevens]

You don't need to worry about Presidents' trophies for a long time.

Wonder if Toronto would trade Matthews for Virtanen. Only 1+1 in 7 games.

Matthews didn’t play gutless.

 

[racerjoe]

Just the fact he hasn’t failed yet
Hope to see one day
29 is already a known thing after two years of watching

Caveat- the game keeps getting softer and softer and softer and players can play with full confidence of never being hit.

Advantage Willie

In 50 playoff games in the so far in his career he has 25 pts...
in WJC he has played 12 games and scored 5 pts...

so yeah... Nylander is doing better in the NHL playoffs then him in non NHL playoffs... but Virtanen is going to magically be better.

I like Jake but seriously if you wouldn't rather take Nylander at this point in time I question what you are watching.

 

[Scott Stevens]

In 50 playoff games in the so far in his career he has 25 pts...
in WJC he has played 12 games and scored 5 pts...

so yeah... Nylander is doing better in the NHL playoffs then him in non NHL playoffs... but Virtanen is going to magically be better.

I like Jake but seriously if you wouldn't rather take Nylander at this point in time I question what you are watching.

I’m watching playoff hockey. Admittedly maybe through expiring glasses. The game may end up the no hitter league nylander would thrive in. People say you can get “plugs” in FA. You can also sign soft as babyshit wingers for a year here and there.

 

[CanaFan]

Matthews didn’t play gutless.

What specifically is “playing gutless” and why is it worse than just playing poorly? Does it make your team lose by a bigger amount or is it just one of those things that sounds emphatically worse when you write it on a message board?

Because so far this entire argument sounds more emotional than factual.

 

[Scott Stevens]

What specifically is “playing gutless” and why is it worse than just playing poorly? Does it make your team lose by a bigger amount or is it just one of those things that sounds emphatically worse when you write it on a message board?

Because so far this entire argument sounds more emotional than factual.

I’m not emotional. I am not a leafs fan. I observed a player who doesn’t sacrifice to win. Will avoid getting to a loosie vs a big player in a 50/50 race. Doesn’t wanna feel pain. Maybe he’s still shellshocked by the Swiss wjh hit.

 

[CanaFan]

I’m not emotional. I am not a leafs fan. I observed a player who doesn’t sacrifice to win. Will avoid getting to a loosie vs a big player in a 50/50 race. Doesn’t wanna feel pain. Maybe he’s still shellshocked by the Swiss wjh hit.

Sure, he’s got flaws. Skilled players often do. But if you put him on a PP when you’re down by a goal he’s got a half decent chance to score or set up the tying goal for you. For all his “failings” he still has produced 8 pts in 13 playoff games, which isn’t bad for a kid who’s still learning and growing his game.

It’s just funny that you’d take a guy who isn’t even half the player Nylander is in the regular season and then assume he’ll be some sort of mythical playoff beast when he’s never played a single playoff game. So what if he hits a couple of guys? You don’t win games by outhitting the other team. And if you just want a guy to run around and muck it up, sign a guy like Torres for free and stick him in your bottom 6. You don’t ditch scorers for bangers and grinders.

 

[racerjoe]

I’m watching playoff hockey. Admittedly maybe through expiring glasses. The game may end up the no hitter league nylander would thrive in. People say you can get “plugs” in FA. You can also sign soft as baby**** wingers for a year here and there.

I think you might just need new glasses... they seem to have expired a while ago.

Being physical only works if you are also already effective.

Hell you may have just described Patrick Kane instead of Nylander... or any number of small guys.

 

[Scott Stevens]

Sure, he’s got flaws. Skilled players often do. But if you put him on a PP when you’re down by a goal he’s got a half decent chance to score or set up the tying goal for you. For all his “failings” he still has produced 8 pts in 13 playoff games, which isn’t bad for a kid who’s still learning and growing his game.

It’s just funny that you’d take a guy who isn’t even half the player Nylander is in the regular season and then assume he’ll be some sort of mythical playoff beast when he’s never played a single playoff game. So what if he hits a couple of guys? You don’t win games by outhitting the other team. And if you just want a guy to run around and muck it up, sign a guy like Torres for free and stick him in your bottom 6. You don’t ditch scorers for bangers and grinders.

You can sign soft 50-60 point players free whichever year in particular year you need em

I feel Jake may have 25-25 in him with crushing legal hits and big forechecking turnover numbers. I’d rather that even if nylander got to 80 reg season and playoff pansy.

 

[Scott Stevens]

I think you might just need new glasses... they seem to have expired a while ago.

Being physical only works if you are also already effective.

Hell you may have just described Patrick Kane instead of Nylander... or any number of small guys.

Patrick kane is twice the player nylander will ever be.

Plus he is willing to pay the price to win.

I’m a little flabbergasted how badly I am being opposed to ragging on a non nuck

 

[racerjoe]

Patrick kane is twice the player nylander will ever be.

Plus he is willing to pay the price to win.

I’m a little flabbergasted how badly I am being opposed to ragging on a non nuck

It's not just saying a leaf sucks. It is then also saying a player who is so obviously not even close to as good, is better.

 

[Scott Stevens]

It's not just saying a leaf sucks. It is then also saying a player who is so obviously not even close to as good, is better.

I’m not saying better

I’m saying TO ME Jake is at least untapped
I believe Willie will forever be a soft and scared 70ish point playoff disappointment

Just my view

No prediction for jake

Just that he has still to show himself

TO ME

 

[Peter10]

Your opinion on this is really weird.

Just comparing Jakes playoff stats in the WHL and AHL with what he had done there in the regular season isnt really awe inspiring

WHL Regular Season:	192 gp	85-76-161	0.84 p/g
WHL Playoffs:	40 gp	8-15-23	0.58 p/g
AHL Regular Season:	67 gp	9-10-19	0.28 g/p
AHL Playoffs:	10 go	0-1-1	0.1 g/p

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

So just because he hasnt played in the NHL playoffs yet you expect him to be better than Nylander eventhough his playoff production in the WHL and AHL was significant less than his already not so great regular season totals?

I understand that points is not everything, in particular playoffs but if I was counting on him to be an impact player I would at least expect him to roughly replicate his production from the regular season.

 

[F A N]

Your opinion on this is really weird.

Just comparing Jakes playoff stats in the WHL and AHL with what he had done there in the regular season isnt really awe inspiring

WHL Regular Season:	192 gp	85-76-161	0.84 p/g
WHL Playoffs:	40 gp	8-15-23	0.58 p/g
AHL Regular Season:	67 gp	9-10-19	0.28 g/p
AHL Playoffs:	10 go	0-1-1	0.1 g/p

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

So just because he hasnt played in the NHL playoffs yet you expect him to be better than Nylander eventhough his playoff production in the WHL and AHL was significant less than his already not so great regular season totals?

I understand that points is not everything, in particular playoffs but if I was counting on him to be an impact player I would at least expect him to roughly replicate his production from the regular season.

I think it's hard to tell because there's simply no evidence or track record. For example, Evander Kane playoff stats in the WHL wasn't awe inspiring either. But he was certainly an impact player in the playoffs for San Jose this season. And things can change. Eberle was as clutch as it got at the WJC but was nonexistent in the playoffs last season.

 

[Peter10]

I think it's hard to tell because there's simply no evidence or track record. For example, Evander Kane playoff stats in the WHL wasn't awe inspiring either. But he was certainly an impact player in the playoffs for San Jose this season. And things can change. Eberle was as clutch as it got at the WJC but was nonexistent in the playoffs last season.

Of course this is mainly because of the relative small sample size. A little cold streak at the wrong time and you are labeled as a playoff choker. Or you run hot and suddenly you are clutch. However, I still think his junior production is at least giving an indication of what to (realistically) expect. It doesnt mean that it will play out like that in the NHL but I think it is more reliable than expecting him to be a playoff beast just because of reasons.

If I had the choice between Nylander and a Raffi Torres re-incarnation on my team I would still take Nylander. Even in his best playoffs Torres (11pts in 22gp) didnt match Nylanders record (8 pts in 13gp). In the playoffs you preferably have both kinds of players but the Torres type is there to support the Nylander type. And the Torres type will be useless if he doesnt have scorers on the team unless you have a red hot goalie putting you on a cinderella run.

 

[F A N]

Of course this is mainly because of the relative small sample size. A little cold streak at the wrong time and you are labeled as a playoff choker. Or you run hot and suddenly you are clutch. However, I still think his junior production is at least giving an indication of what to (realistically) expect. It doesnt mean that it will play out like that in the NHL but I think it is more reliable than expecting him to be a playoff beast just because of reasons.

I don't disagree with you here. Virtanen has not shown that he's a playoff performer or big game player. With that said, he's not tracking to be an impact player and that can make a huge difference. A team that advances deep in the playoffs usually has a valuable 3rd line contributor.

If I had the choice between Nylander and a Raffi Torres re-incarnation on my team I would still take Nylander. Even in his best playoffs Torres (11pts in 22gp) didnt match Nylanders record (8 pts in 13gp). In the playoffs you preferably have both kinds of players but the Torres type is there to support the Nylander type. And the Torres type will be useless if he doesnt have scorers on the team unless you have a red hot goalie putting you on a cinderella run.

I agree. I think it is too soon to call Nylander a playoff bust and no question I would rather have Nylander than a Torres re-incarnation. But like you are suggesting, it depends on the team. If you have one year to win it all, do you choose Cody Hodgson at his best or Samuel Pahlsson at his best? In 2013, I preferred Hodgson as the 3C, but on a team that has no trouble scoring, Pahlsson could be the difference between winning the Cup and not winning it. I truly believe that if we had a healthy Malhotra, we would have won the Cup.