Has the Red Wings struggle changed your opinion of Yzerman as a GM?

Has Detroit's struggles to rebuild into a contender changed your opinion on Stevie Y as a GM?

  • Yes, negatively.

    Votes: 172 44.9%
  • No.

    Votes: 211 55.1%

  • Total voters
    383

WarriorofTime

Registered User
Jul 3, 2010
29,691
18,024
Name a couple of top GMs using the following criteria:

- No lottery wins
- No top 3 picks
- No inherited superstars
He should have bottomed out more. This isn't even debatable. The whole "we tried the bottom out thing and we lost the lottery, so we gave up", getting Nate Danielson instead of Bedard/Carlsson/Fantilli/Smith/Michkov when they have like two players on the roster that factor into the long-term was boneheaded. A potential star forward is way more important for the Red Wings than David Perron's 24 goals.
 

Axel Sandy Pelikan

Jonatan Berggren is our Lord and Savior,
May 11, 2023
1,056
1,058
He should have bottomed out more. This isn't even debatable. The whole "we tried the bottom out thing and we lost the lottery, so we gave up", getting Nate Danielson instead of Bedard/Carlsson/Fantilli/Smith/Michkov when they have like two players on the roster that factor into the long-term was boneheaded. A potential star forward is way more important for the Red Wings than David Perron's 24 goals.

I hate that this is making me do so, because I shouldn't want him to fail, but my god, I want Connor Bedard to flame out horrifically so Chicago falls on their damn faces again. It's not our fault that you're paying a combined 8M to Andreas Athanasiou and Corey Perry.

No, they did the opposite of "Gave up". You should be trying to be better tomorrow than you are today. You should be giving young players with talent support so you're not wasting them.

Michkov isn't gonna be in the US for another 4 years at least.

You guys need to make up your minds about Larkin...
He's a 1C that we really like. He's not a superstar. But he's a really f***in good hockey player. No, YOU all need to stop with this "If you don't have these guys that we've prescribed as good young players, you're garbage".

Would it be better had we won the lottery and landed Stutzle or Beniers or Fantilli? Of course it would. But if you don't win the lottery, you don't throw your hands up and say "Whelp, we tried, we gotta suck again!"
 

Spring in Fialta

A malign star kept him
Apr 1, 2007
25,458
14,683
Montreal, QC
I hate that this is making me do so, because I shouldn't want him to fail, but my god, I want Connor Bedard to flame out horrifically so Chicago falls on their damn faces again. It's not our fault that you're paying a combined 8M to Andreas Athanasiou and Corey Perry.

No, they did the opposite of "Gave up". You should be trying to be better tomorrow than you are today. You should be giving young players with talent support so you're not wasting them.

Michkov isn't gonna be in the US for another 4 years at least.


He's a 1C that we really like. He's not a superstar. But he's a really f***in good hockey player. No, YOU all need to stop with this "If you don't have these guys that we've prescribed as good young players, you're garbage".

Would it be better had we won the lottery and landed Stutzle or Beniers or Fantilli? Of course it would. But if you don't win the lottery, you don't throw your hands up and say "Whelp, we tried, we gotta suck again!"

Fans don't seem to realize that there's staff and players with careers and ambition all over the league and resumes to build up. GMs can't just look at their players and staff every summer and say 'Didn't pick high enough, so I'll try and make the team worst once again!'

It's unrealistic.

Also, David Perron isn't good enough to ruin a tank job.
 

King In The North

Sean Bennett
Jul 9, 2007
12,003
2,366
Winterfell
:laugh: thrilled to death with being run over for 4 years and coming out of it with Danielson, Edvinsson, Raymond and Kasparand some depth high ceiling picks that every org has?

While the teams around you are hitting on picks like Sanderson, Mintyukov, Mercer, Jarvis, etc.

Seider is better than Sanderson and Raymond is better than Mercer, Jarvis....
 

Axel Sandy Pelikan

Jonatan Berggren is our Lord and Savior,
May 11, 2023
1,056
1,058
Jesus f***ing Christ you have to be trolling
Hold up mirror to face. You get ridiculous answers to your commentary when your commentary is ridiculous. Alex Tuch and Jeff Skinner are very good players. Jeff Skinner has also been lauded as one of the worst contracts in the league as recently as two years ago. Buffalo took a huge step forward when their two #1OA D hit the league and Tage Thompson took a monumental leap forward.
But back to basics, nobody in Detroit is calling Larkin a superstar. Hell, over half the Wings fanbase didn't want to give him 8.7x8. We have questions about him too.

However, whenever Larkin has had a plus team around him (exhibitions, All-Star game, Olympics, etc..), he's been an upper end player. He's been held back by Detroit's overall lack of talent. That's why he's not a superstar. He can't do it all by himself. But guys like Patty Kane and Mitch Marner lauded what Larkin was able to do when they skated with him. Lastly, he scored around 70 points a couple times on a one-line team with two competent NHL defensemen and five complete scrubs.
 
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Matt Ress

Don't sleep on me
Aug 5, 2014
5,144
2,909
Appalachia
I'm not sure that credibility is something that exists on these boards. My message was understood by those that needed to understand it.
It may surprise you to find that some posters have credibility. You answered a tough but relevant post with some irrelevant trash. Making an excuse for it won't be beneficial to you.
 

CamPopplestone

Registered User
Sep 27, 2017
2,515
2,896
Not at all. Detroit was in arguably the worst position in the league when he took over in regards to overpaid bad players and absolutely nothing in the prospect pool. They've improved slightly every year under him. And if they hadn't sold at the deadline this past season they'd have had a higher points percentage jump, but he saw the writing on the wall and was proactive in selling.

They've got a good young core of pieces with more on the way. He's got some decent players he's signed to free agent deals like Holl to help insulate the young players over the next few years. This was a from absolutely nothing rebuild. You're lucky to see any progress in 4 years at all.

Even if they stall and don't keep getting better, I genuinely don't think any other GM, taking over Detroit when and where they were, would have done a better job.
 

WF19

Registered User
Nov 18, 2009
1,326
1,002
I disagree it’s that easy. Florida Panthers are also in Florida and have sucked for a LONG time. It takes good management to build a great team.
There also hasn't been enough time to tell if a Point or Kucherov have been found. Could end up Lombardi, Mazur, Buch, even Soderblom got keep progressing. The only draft picks in the Yzerman Era playing so far is Seider, Raymond and Ed is coming sooner than later. All the signings he makes are still value signings that he can essentially trade off for picks. Hence hiw the Wings have picked 900 tines since he's been drafting.
 

norrisnick

The best...
Apr 14, 2005
29,384
13,953
It may surprise you to find that some posters have credibility. You answered a tough but relevant post with some irrelevant trash. Making an excuse for it won't be beneficial to you.
There is nothing credible about these boards since Bobby Mac stopped calling posters assclowns. The post was neither tough or relevant. And the response certainly wasn't irrelevant. If you don't know the connection, maybe someone can fill you in later.
 

Chainshot

Give 'em Enough Rope
Sponsor
Feb 28, 2002
151,444
101,947
Tarnation
It still seems like he's trying to build something in a different mold than he had in Tampa or with what is trendy in other places. Namely, his defensive pipeline are a bunch of trees, but mobile, skilled trees. Then he has a collection of 2-way sorts down the middle. From afar, it seems like stout defense and waves a 2nd lines to win matchup roles from a prospect and pipeline standpoint.

The UFA stuff, eh. Some good, some poor, yet we'll see how continuing to sift his prospects into a more veteran structured lineup will pan out. Ripping everything down to the ground seems like a risk given recent examples like Buffalo's Eichel attempt, where they didn't have enough accountability around the younger guys coming in to push them in a professional, winning atmosphere.

We'll see. From where they came from, the Wings seem ahead of the end of the Holland tenure. Is it enough? We'll find out. That's why they play the games.
 

Matt Ress

Don't sleep on me
Aug 5, 2014
5,144
2,909
Appalachia
There is nothing credible about these boards since Bobby Mac stopped calling posters assclowns. The post was neither tough or relevant. And the response certainly wasn't irrelevant. If you don't know the connection, maybe someone can fill you in later.
Well if Mac was still around I think I know what one of his top targets would be. Frantically trying to defend his favorite team's player at the expense of his own integrity. The epitome of what you perceive these boards have become.
 

norrisnick

The best...
Apr 14, 2005
29,384
13,953
Well if Mac was still around I think I know what one of his top targets would be. Frantically trying to defend his favorite team's player at the expense of his own integrity. The epitome of what you perceive these boards have become.
I'd hazard a guess that it's the clowns arguing Tuch and Skinner are better players than Larkin, but that's just one dude's opinion..
 

norrisnick

The best...
Apr 14, 2005
29,384
13,953
Semi competent 2nd liners are better players

Do you see it now?
Do you just have the other dude on ignore? Makes sense, honestly... I have a lot of dipshit Wing fans on ignore. Worry about your own, don't worry about me. As I said, the post was relevant and fitting in kind to the manner of discourse that individual distributes.
 
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WarriorofTime

Registered User
Jul 3, 2010
29,691
18,024
I hate that this is making me do so, because I shouldn't want him to fail, but my god, I want Connor Bedard to flame out horrifically so Chicago falls on their damn faces again. It's not our fault that you're paying a combined 8M to Andreas Athanasiou and Corey Perry.
What does this have to do with the post you were quoting?
 

IWantSakicAsMyGM

Registered User
Oct 13, 2011
9,798
4,000
Colorado
Doug Armstrong.

He took over as gm of the blues July 2010. The best players he inherited were d.backed, p.Berglund, Piet and Oshie. I’d consider none of those guys superstars. The best pick he had was a 20th overall pick in r.Thomas. I think Doug Armstrong fits your criteria.

I'm not sure he does. One of Armstrong's first trades as GM was to trade the former 2006 1OA pick, Erik Johnson, Jay McClement and a 1st to Colorado for Chris Stewart, Kevin Shattenkirk and a 2nd. To me, that's having a top 3 pick, even if he didn't get to select the player.

He was also the Blues' director of player personnel when Pietrangelo was drafted 4OA in 2008, and GM in everything but official contract when they drafted Schwartz 14OA (and Tarasenko 16th), so his best pick wasn't really 20th.
 

Matt Ress

Don't sleep on me
Aug 5, 2014
5,144
2,909
Appalachia
Do you just have the other dude on ignore? Makes sense, honestly... I have a lot of dipshit Wing fans on ignore. Worry about your own, don't worry about me. As I said, the post was relevant and fitting in kind to the manner of discourse that individual distributes.
Lol eh maybe but don't worry, I don't give 2 shits about you.
 

Axel Sandy Pelikan

Jonatan Berggren is our Lord and Savior,
May 11, 2023
1,056
1,058
That the Wings don’t need guidance from a team that won the lotto and is STILL tanking by giving a combined 8M to the corpse of Corey Perry and the one way Greek Lightning.

That I hope your “suck until we are good” strat blows up in your face
 
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