Has the Red Wings struggle changed your opinion of Yzerman as a GM?

[Tufted Titmouse]

Yzerman was widely considered one of the top GMs in hockey when he eventually stepped down in Tampa and moved to Detroit,

After a few years of rebuilding, it feels like that org is not where we thought it would be today.

Has this changed your opinion of Yzerman (as a GM)?

Click to read more...

 

[HockeyVirus]

Yes of course. He has been their GM for 4.5 years and what do they have to show for it really?

For a guy who was touted as by far and away the best GM in the league when he left, he has been pretty average to bad. His signings have been absolutely awful, his drafting questionable. The wings have spun their tires for a few years now and his solution was to go out and sign Justin Holl to a big contract and acquire the corpse or Petry.

Still no true #1 C in their org. Basically at this point he is trying to buy time for the wealth of draft picks to graduate, and if the drafting was as sus as it looks, that is likely when he is fired and a new person comes in and tries to retool.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Ken Holland left us 4 years ago with our 2nd best player as Anthony Mantha and our top two prospects as Filip Zadina and Joe Veleno.

Consider that before you vote.

 

[Ezpz]

It shows how important draft lottery can be. It also shows that being gm of Tampa is easy mode.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Yes of course. He has been their GM for 4.5 years and what do they have to show for it really?

For a guy who was touted as by far and away the best GM in the league when he left, he has been pretty average to bad. His signings have been absolutely awful, his drafting questionable. The wings have spun their tires for a few years now and his solution was to go out and sign Justin Holl to a big contract and acquire the corpse or Petry.

Still no true #1 C in their org. Basically at this point he is trying to buy time for the wealth of draft picks to graduate, and if the drafting was as sus as it looks, that is likely when he is fired and a new person comes in and tries to retool.

Today I learned that 3 x $3.4M is a "Big contract".

Also would love to hear about how "sus" Detroit's drafting has been.

 

[The Podium]

It shows how important draft lottery can be. It also shows that being gm of Tampa is easy mode.

And how much luck is involved in drafting non-1st round stars

 

[Madap]

Yeah, but only a bit. I always thought he was overrated in the Tampa, and I don’t think he’s been quite as bad as everyone says now.

Detroit was as bare as could be, and while they will probably need a better center than Larkin to ever really contend, it’s not super easy to do and they haven’t been lucky with the lottery like other teams. I also don’t blame him for the contracts this year. Insulating younger players is not a bad idea, and none of the contracts will really cripple them when they’re really ready to contend. How many teams have we seen just suck for years and years because they only tried relying on their young, high draft picks?

 

[wmupreds]

Obviously lottery luck has played a role and you can't blame a GM for that. But many other acquisitions have been head scratchers, and what's dumb is the Wings fan insistence on some genius "Yzerplan" that amounted to tanking and hoping for top picks. Sure that was pretty much his only option but the dude isn't exactly playing a different game than the rest of the league.

 

[Ezekial]

Shows how clueless people are about other organizations.

His drafting has been superb, you just don't know of his later round prospects that have been trending up because you don't follow the team.
He has obvious hits in the first round already and players like Mazur and Lombardi and Soderblom that people expected nothing from who might be real players.

 

[Peasy]

Always found him to be generally overrated. Thought he was always a solid gm but man the way some people talked about him, its like he never made a mistake and every move he makes is perfect.

He had a lot of draft blunders with high picks in Tampa, definitely was helped out by where the city is located (nice climate, lowest taxes etc). Doesn't have that luxury in Detroit now and you can clearly see that with some of the contracts hes handed out.

Thought the Cossa pick over Wallstedt at the time was a bad choice, and nothing since then has really changed my view on that.

Overall hes a solid GM, but its not like hes on a tier of his own or anything.

 

[Machinehead]

No, because I always thought Tampa got very lucky with the amount of hits they had in late rounds, not to mention inheriting Stamkos and Hedman.

 

[izlez]

As a Red Wings fan, I always thought he was way overrated before he came back.

Having said that, discrediting him based on the Red Wings are doing up to this point is dumb

Its almost unanimous that you build through the draft. His 1st draft was in 2019

2019: Might have the best player in the draft. Other draft picks still trending well.
2020: 1st round pick looks very good in the NHL. Other picks are trending well. Virtually no players beyond the 1st round are contributing in the NHL.
2021: Multiple picks trending well. Virtually no one from this draft is contributing in the NHL yet.
2022: Multiple picks trending well. Virtually no one from this draft is contributing in the NHL yet.
2023: No one knows.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

Maybe ten+ years ago there were so many awful GMs that having a good one was a major competitive advantage but now I'm not sure there's even a single bad GM. I hear the names that thrown around now as terrible GMs: Dubas, Dorion, Ron Francis, Holland, etc and I don't really see it to be honest. A few bad decisions but sensible ones, you don't get GMs like Dale Tallon anymore doing completely awful mistakes, no one is trying to build through unrestricted free agency anymore, everyone is basically trying to build through the draft and create cup windows from a pool of young talent which is the only way you can.

Which means Yzerman, who imo is an above average GM, can't do magic. He can produce this team and prospect pool after 4 years, which looks pretty middle of the road and not destined for great things, the way say Buffalo is after stockpiling picks and young talent for years. Tampa was built by Stamkos/Hedman and jackpot draft picks like Kucherov/Point which are mostly dumb luck imo. The cherry on top was the Drouin / Sergachev swap which Yzerman deserves full credit for though.

 

[Dirty Dog]

He got way too much credit in Tampa and had a ton of luck there.

And he is getting too much blame in Detroit and has had a lot of bad luck there.

The truth is in the middle. It’s a tough task and he’s shown to be competent (which is better than a lot) but not much else. No one but a few Detroit fans could possibly not be disappointed with the amount of talent in the organization after this many years of being bad

 

[GarlicbreadTB]

Look at what Holland left him when he took over in 2019. Then on top of that no lottery luck, any GM would struggle under those circumstances. But he's drafted quite well so let's wait and see what they'll turn into.

But of course he's not been perfect, some of the free agents are not necessarily the ones I would've gone for and at times I wish he'd take advantage of the cap space Red Wings had during the covid years.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Yzerman was widely considered one of the top GMs in hockey when he eventually stepped down in Tampa and moved to Detroit,

After a few years of rebuilding, it feels like that org is not where we thought it would be today.

Has this changed your opinion of Yzerman (as a GM)?

No. Because the Red Wings were a literal "on-fire tire fire" when he showed up. In three years, they've got clean financials and a pretty damn solid talent base to grow.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

2023

2022

2021

2020

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

No. Because the Red Wings were a literal "on-fire tire fire" when he showed up. In three years, they've got clean financials and a pretty damn solid talent base to grow.

Clean financials?

Copp @ 5.6 x 4
Compher @ 5.1 x 5
Fabbri @ 4 x 2
Chiarot @ 4.75 x 3
Holl @ 3.4 x 3

That's a lot of cash and term for guys that are not moving the needle. I didn't touch DeBrincat because I still believe in him, but lots of risk there, too. Larkin @ 8.7 is ok.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

He got way too much credit in Tampa and had a ton of luck there.

And he is getting too much blame in Detroit and has had a lot of bad luck there.

The truth is in the middle. It’s a tough task and he’s shown to be competent (which is better than a lot) but not much else. No one but a few Detroit fans could possibly not be disappointed with the amount of talent in the organization after this many years of being bad

We're disappointed because Ken Holland pissed away the 2015, 2016, 2017, and 2018 first rounders and damn near every other pick amounts to a jack point shit.


We're thrilled to f***ing death with 2019, 2020, and 2021's and encouraged by 2022's and intrigued by 2023's. And we've landed some real promising guys in the 2nd and later too.

Yes of course. He has been their GM for 4.5 years and what do they have to show for it really?

For a guy who was touted as by far and away the best GM in the league when he left, he has been pretty average to bad. His signings have been absolutely awful, his drafting questionable. The wings have spun their tires for a few years now and his solution was to go out and sign Justin Holl to a big contract and acquire the corpse or Petry.

Still no true #1 C in their org. Basically at this point he is trying to buy time for the wealth of draft picks to graduate, and if the drafting was as sus as it looks, that is likely when he is fired and a new person comes in and tries to retool.

His drafting is questionable when you compare it to what the dipshits on HFboards would do, yeah. In his first four first rounds... he landed a legitimate 1D, a legitimate top 6 wing with top six potential, a 6'6" goaltender who is looking better and better and honestly took a big statistical hit because they yanked him to and fro to get all the ice time he could, another tall and smooth skating D who looks top pair destined, another Larkin but bigger, and two intriguing prospects in ASP and Danielson. Sorry that we can't all have lottery luck and pull Auston Matthews.

 

[Pinto Bean]

From a Sens fans perspective, the Detroit Red Wings just have a completely uninspiring roster. Late last season when both the Sens & the Wings were still in the hunt for the playoffs, the two teams played a back to back where Detroit just genuinely looked awful in all aspects.

Obviously a 2 game sample size isn't enough to judge a team, but as a human I'm guilty of remembering things that happened recently and that has certainly stuck with me.

Beyond that, the Free Agency acquisitions and some of the trades that have been made has built a roster that is full of the most boring and uneventful players in the league. Just an uninspiring team all around.

 

[Dirty Dog]

We're disappointed because Ken Holland pissed away the 2015, 2016, 2017, and 2018 first rounders and damn near every other pick amounts to a jack point shit.


We're thrilled to f***ing death with 2019, 2020, and 2021's and encouraged by 2022's and intrigued by 2023's. And we've landed some real promising guys in the 2nd and later too.

I don’t follow their drafts as closely. Who are the players he drafted in 2019 and 2020 that you are thrilled to f***ing death about?

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Clean financials?

Copp @ 5.6 x 4
Compher @ 5.1 x 5
Fabbri @ 4 x 2
Chiarot @ 4.75 x 3
Holl @ 3.4 x 3

That's a lot of cash and term for guys that are not moving the needle. I didn't touch DeBrincat because I still believe in him, but lots of risk there, too. Larkin @ 8.7 is ok.

Yes. Clean finanicals. They were a literal capped out team with Justin Abdelkader skating on the top line in like 2015 and 2016. And the cap is about to bump up 5-10M over the next two to three years. They have the financial leeway to add who they want, to extend or bridge any of their young guns how they want. Fabbri doesn't move the needle because he gets hurt (which means he isn't on the cap at those points) but when he's playing and healthy, he's a 40-50 point wing making 4M

From a Sens fans perspective, the Detroit Red Wings just have a completely uninspiring roster. Late last season when both the Sens & the Wings were still in the hunt for the playoffs, the two teams played a back to back where Detroit just genuinely looked awful in all aspects.

Obviously a 2 game sample size isn't enough to judge a team, but as a human I'm guilty of remembering things that happened recently and that has certainly stuck with me.

Beyond that, the Free Agency acquisitions and some of the trades that have been made has built a roster that is full of the most boring and uneventful players in the league. Just an uninspiring team all around.

And instead of playing Robert Hagg, Jordan Oesterle, and Gustav Lindstrom this year, they're playing Justin Holl, Shayne Gostisbehere, and Jeff Petry. The Wings at that point had also lost Michael Rasmussen who was blossoming super well.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

I don’t follow their drafts as closely. Who are the players he drafted in 2019 and 2020 that you are thrilled to f***ing death about?

Moritz Seider and Lucas Raymond. You know, the Calder winner and fourth in Calder voting in 21-22.
You don't have to follow the draft that closely to see the two guys taken #6 and #4.

 

[sepster]

This thread will be cringe within two seasons... maybe even by the end of this season.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Yes of course. He has been their GM for 4.5 years and what do they have to show for it really?

4 years is basically nothing unless you're winning draft lotteries. Threads like this show nothing except peoples inability to distinguish luck from skill.