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Confirmed with Link: Hartley Fired Discuss (also Cloutier)

Johnny Hoxville

Johnny Hoxville

The Return of a Legend
Jul 15, 2006
37,549
9,343
Calgary
drDT said:
I don't understand why people are repeating this false talking point.
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Other than line combos being critiqued on rare occasion, no one was complaining about his systems. In fact, I'd say it was a huge reason he won coach of the year, implementing a system that catered to his best players strengths. This year he struggled to adapt, but I put far more blame on the players than I do Hartley. I also largely blame Treliving for our poor goaltending. Hartley is not our biggest problem.
 
Dertell

Dertell

Registered User
Jul 14, 2015
2,923
474
Johnny Hoxville said:
Other than line combos being critiqued on rare occasion, no one was complaining about his systems. In fact, I'd say it was a huge reason he won coach of the year, implementing a system that catered to his best players strengths. This year he struggled to adapt, but I put far more blame on the players than I do Hartley. I also largely blame Treliving for our poor goaltending. Hartley is not our biggest problem.
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You didn't pay attention. Overuse of the stretch pass, usage of players like Engelland, Bollig and Colborne and his reluctance to adapt unless he was forced to (hudler-Monahan-Gaudreau line being a good example) were all noticed and heavily critized. Those critics were in turn critized for making those criticisms by people who now say "no one was complaining about Hartley when they made the playoffs".

But yes, no one wanted Hartley to be fired after the season. It was fair to be patient and hope with a better roster and an offseasons to make adjustments it would be easier to manage the roster and create better systems even if the difference in talent between Brodie/Gio and everyone else on defense should've made it easier to get the dmen's TOI right. I mean, coaches usually try to keep combos and systems in place when they're winning. Now it's pretty clear he's just bad and will continue to make the same mistake .
 
Tkachuk Norris

Tkachuk Norris

Registered User
Jun 22, 2012
15,680
6,817
Hartley does deserve some criticism.
-took 60 games to implement the umbrella on the PP
-can't kill penalties
-deploys useless veterans like Bollig, Smid and Hiller over better younger players (Hathaway, Ortio, Spoon)
-asks players that should be dump and chase players to play like the old red army. (Ie Ferland, Colbourne, Stajan, Bouma)
-barely ever mixes his lines up
 
Anglesmith

Anglesmith

Setting up the play?
Sep 17, 2012
46,483
14,802
Victoria
I think Hartley's line-mixing frequency is just about right. Some coaches overdo it and don't let chemistry develop, and some coaches try the same thing when it's clearly not working. Hartley's decisions with regards to lines usually match my own inclinations. He gives extra rope to guys that have had success in the past, but so would I.
 
Johnny Hoxville

Johnny Hoxville

The Return of a Legend
Jul 15, 2006
37,549
9,343
Calgary
Why would Hartley stop using the stretch pass and activating the defence the way he did when it was clearly working quite well last season? Also, saying Hartley continually plays vets over kids that deserve playing time is a myth. Bollig played didn't dress in 30 games this past season, that's over 33% of the year. McGrattan, Setoguchi and Raymond were all been waived over the last 2 seasons to make room for youth in our lineup when they deservedly earned spots.

Again, I'm not saying he's perfect, there were many times this season I was frustrated with him. I can also see how some people dislike the system he plays. However, he has proven that he's a winner, everywhere he goes he finds ways to get the most out of key players. Some players have struggled, but every coach has his favourites. Under Hartley we have seen Gio become a Norris caliber dman, Brodie and Gaudreau have become elite players, and we are seeing the rise of another top player in Monahan who has clearly exceeded his expectations and Bennett looks primed to follow. Considering we made the playoffs last season (and won a round) with the roster we had, I think Hartley has proven that he's a good coach. Again he is far from our biggest problem, I think some of our players took the season far to lightly.
 
Dertell

Dertell

Registered User
Jul 14, 2015
2,923
474
Johnny Hoxville said:
Why would Hartley stop using the stretch pass and activating the defence the way he did when it was clearly working quite well last season?
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We won in spite of it being a weak strategy. Also I already said in my previous post coaches don't try to fix what seem to not be broken.
Johnny Hoxville said:
Also, saying Hartley continually plays vets over kids that deserve playing time is a myth. Bollig played didn't dress in 30 games this past season, that's over 33% of the year. McGrattan, Setoguchi and Raymond were all been waived over the last 2 seasons to make room for youth in our lineup when they deservedly earned spots.
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Placing players on waivers are a GM decision. Even if Hartley has shown himself to be willing to scratch useful young players like Baertschi and Backlund to play two goons, mgmt probably believed McGrattan's "role" was replaced by Bollig.

Setoguchi was useless and nothing more than a failed reclamation project. If anything he was kept in for way too long.

Frolik and Bennett were added to the lineup so of course some players in the bottom 6 had to be scratched - we had way too many one-way forwards at one point. That ended up being Bollig, Jooris and/or Raymond. Again Hartley gets credit for "adjusting"... when the situation is out of his control.
Johnny Hoxville said:
Again, I'm not saying he's perfect, there were many times this season I was frustrated with him. I can also see how some people dislike the system he plays. However, he has proven that he's a winner, everywhere he goes he finds ways to get the most out of key players. Some players have struggled, but every coach has his favourites. Under Hartley we have seen Gio become a Norris caliber dman, Brodie and Gaudreau have become elite players, and we are seeing the rise of another top player in Monahan who has clearly exceeded his expectations and Bennett looks primed to follow. Considering we made the playoffs last season (and won a round) with the roster we had, I think Hartley has proven that he's a good coach. Again he is far from our biggest problem, I think some of our players took the season far to lightly.
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As if the success of these players has anything to do with him. Brodie, Gaudreau and Monahan all had a ton of minor league success the year before they got in Hartley's system.

Coaches don't reach the NHL with a losing record in minor league and they don't get a third shot if they do nothing with the best roster of the past 20 years. That doesn't mean he is a proven good coach in the modern NHL.
 
Volica

Volica

Papa Shango
May 15, 2012
21,456
11,121
It's worth noting at this time; Bob Hartley was not Treliving's guy.
 
RedHot

RedHot

Fire Dave Cameron (Fired)**
Aug 6, 2014
1,219
172
Calgary
Terrible pp, terrible pk, terrible possession, terrible team defense.

This is not a shocker to me.
 
tyflames

tyflames

Registered User
Jul 4, 2010
1,843
26
Wow didn't expect this, don't think it was his fault this past season but my guess is they see an upgrade.
 
TheHudlinator

TheHudlinator

Registered User
Nov 21, 2011
28,824
7,602
Victoria,BC
Hartley wasn't a Treliving hire and GM's tend to want to pick their own coach so this isn't terribly surprising. I honestly didn't think he was that bad but I guess the step back the team took this year was enough for management to let him go.
 
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