Confirmed with Link: Hartley Fired Discuss (also Cloutier)

[Johnny GODreau]

Keep Hartley, but replace the assistants/special teams coaches. The powerplay and penalty killing was disgraceful this season.

Also, I've brought this up before, and it's gotten mixed reactions, but I'd love to see someone brought in to specifically to help with faceoffs. I'm not big on advanced stats, but this team needs to improve it's possession numbers. Winning faceoffs more would definitely help with that. I wonder what Yanic Perreault is up to. Maybe Stephane Yelle?

I like this idea as well.

 

[Calculon]

I'd be fine with replacing Hartley with Boudreau but I expect Treliving to stick with him for the final year of his contract.

Think Ottawa ends up with Boudreau (or Hartley if the Flames actually fired him).

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Keep Hartley, but replace the assistants/special teams coaches. The powerplay and penalty killing was disgraceful this season.

Also, I've brought this up before, and it's gotten mixed reactions, but I'd love to see someone brought in to specifically to help with faceoffs. I'm not big on advanced stats, but this team needs to improve it's possession numbers. Winning faceoffs more would definitely help with that. I wonder what Yanic Perreault is up to. Maybe Stephane Yelle?

The PK was abysmal all year. But the PP was lights out the moment they switched from a two-high to an umbrella style.

 

[MonyontheMoney]

Burke cares, he has talked about it numerous times.

Sure, I guess I did over exaggerate, but would management be more inclined to ice a winning team or an entertaining one? Once again, their job is also to win.

I think it is safe to say winning is above entertainment on the priority list of BT and BB.

 

[L13]

Assistant coaches don't do their job independently of Hartley. They implement his ideas for the most part. That's why I don't think he should be absolved of blame for our terrible special teams this season, or that the issue would be fixed by hiring a different assistant coach.

On a different note, Hartley's systems result in entertaining hockey because they're bad, not because he's that devoted to entertaining the fans.

If Treliving can get Boudreau, I'm all for it. He's an amazing coach.

 

[Calculon]

Boudreau would be the best of both worlds; competent defence and offensive at the same time.

 

[Lunatik]

Could someone please remind me how well Boudreau has done with good teams?

 

[Anglesmith]

Could someone please remind me how well Boudreau has done with good teams?

Very well, to be honest. Several division championships and playoff series wins.

 

[tfong]

He just happens to be bad luck in game 7s haha.

 

[Lunatik]

Very well, to be honest. Several division championships and playoff series wins.

1 playoff series win a year is "several" now? Her didn't exactly overachieve with any Duck or Caps team, most would argue they underachieved.

 

[Johnny GODreau]

Could someone please remind me how well Boudreau has done with good teams?

 

[Anglesmith]

1 playoff series win a year is "several" now? Her didn't exactly overachieve with any Duck or Caps team, most would argue they underachieved.

Perhaps, but have those franchises enjoyed playoff success without the coach in question? And more importantly, is it enough to point to playoff success to determine the ability of the coach? Playoffs are the ultimate in small sample size and small margins for error. And in addition to that, there is no reason to believe a coach has more to do with how the team performs under the pressure of the playoffs than the players do themselves.

All I know is that Boudreau's teams tend to be very good at hockey. He's also shown himself to be pretty adept at adjusting how the team plays to suit the situation. Am I going to throw all that out because he hasn't won the Cup? No. Prior to winning the Stanley Cup in 2012, Darryl Sutter had won all of 7 playoff series in 10 playoff seasons, with three of those series wins coming in Calgary's '04 run. He wasn't a bad hire in 2012 just like Boudreau wouldn't be a bad hire now.

Although I'm still in Hartley's corner.

 

[Lunatik]

Perhaps, but have those franchises enjoyed playoff success without the coach in question? And more importantly, is it enough to point to playoff success to determine the ability of the coach? Playoffs are the ultimate in small sample size and small margins for error. And in addition to that, there is no reason to believe a coach has more to do with how the team performs under the pressure of the playoffs than the players do themselves.

All I know is that Boudreau's teams tend to be very good at hockey. He's also shown himself to be pretty adept at adjusting how the team plays to suit the situation. Am I going to throw all that out because he hasn't won the Cup? No. Prior to winning the Stanley Cup in 2012, Darryl Sutter had won all of 7 playoff series in 10 playoff seasons, with three of those series wins coming in Calgary's '04 run. He wasn't a bad hire in 2012 just like Boudreau wouldn't be a bad hire now.

Although I'm still in Hartley's corner.

Poor comparison because only once did Sutter coach a team that was favored to win in the playoffs before LA. Boudreau has multiple teams that were supposed to be cup contenders.

My main point is I don't see Boudreau as a coach that gets more than expected out of his players. Hartley on the other hand has shown he can do that.

 

[Anglesmith]

Poor comparison because only once did Sutter coach a team that was favored to win in the playoffs before LA. Boudreau has multiple teams that were supposed to be cup contenders.

My main point is I don't see Boudreau as a coach that gets more than expected out of his players. Hartley on the other hand has shown he can do that.

I wasn't trying to compare Hartley to Boudreau. As I say, I want Hartley to be the coach for this season. But at the end of the day, I just think you're oversimplifying with regards to Boudreau.

 

[Lunatik]

I wasn't trying to compare Hartley to Boudreau. As I say, I want Hartley to be the coach for this season. But at the end of the day, I just think you're oversimplifying with regards to Boudreau.

We can't discuss hiring Boureau without comparing him to Hartley though. And IMO it is simple, Boudreau never gets extra out of his teams.

 

[Anglesmith]

We can't discuss hiring Boureau without comparing him to Hartley though. And IMO it is simple, Boudreau never gets extra out of his teams.

It's possible that Boudreau's coaching is the reason the team is so highly-regarded anyway. Perhaps if they'd been under an inferior coach for the last few seasons, they would be mediocre, with blame being placed on an inexperienced blueline, average goaltending and a lack of forward depth. In that scenario, last year would have been viewed as a resounding success and over-achievement.

 

[Lunatik]

It's possible that Boudreau's coaching is the reason the team is so highly-regarded anyway. Perhaps if they'd been under an inferior coach for the last few seasons, they would be mediocre, with blame being placed on an inexperienced blueline, average goaltending and a lack of forward depth. In that scenario, last year would have been viewed as a resounding success and over-achievement.

Yeah, except that's not the case. I get you are playing Devil's advocate but you could have coached those teams to the playoffs

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Anaheim is a top two team in the NHL. Coaches can't go out and win playoff games. If we have a chance at him we have to sign him. with our talents and his X's and O's we would be awesome.

 

[FLAMES666]

I really don't get the desire to replace Hartley with Boudreau. I wouldn't even consider it an upgrade at all.

 

[TheHudlinator]

Could someone please remind me how well Boudreau has done with good teams?

For me his teams always leave the playoffs early. I like BB but honestly like Hartley too. I would like new assistant coaches as our pp and pk need work but I don't have a problem with Hartley coming back.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I don't want Boudreau at all.

 

[Bounces R Way]

I'm still a fan of Hartley, he's gotten a lot out of an inexperienced and mostly mediocre roster. I would classify him as a good not great coach, and IMO the right coach for this team. Like others have mentioned lots of players have enjoyed career years under Hartley offensively, not just with Calgary either. He seems to be a pretty good motivator and has high standards for his players, good attributes to have when your team's young and coming into it's own.

That being said he absolutely has some warts. The way the team started this year was unacceptable, it was obvious they weren't prepared and barely had the fundamentals of hockey down. The special teams were atrocious, again some valid excuses could be made but there absolutely needs to be an improvement next year. His prevent defence system needs to be improved, this team needs to be much more aggressive above the goal line. The defensive system however relies on it's goalies to be much better than they were, so I can cut him some slack there. Jordan Sigalet and Gelinas need to be fired, and hopefully replaced with the ex-Canuck goalie coach and someone who can run a competent penalty kill.

Really don't think this team has the personnel to play a possession heavy game like St Louis, Anaheim, or LA, they do however need to play with higher tempo like the Hawks, Panthers, and Sharks.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

No one was complaining about Hartley last season when we made the playoffs. He's coaching a core of boys, who just made the playoffs and heads were to big coming into this season. No one is handing them anything, we aren't that talented, if they want to win, they need to work for it.

Fact is, young teams will have inconsistencies in their game. Hartley deserves criticism for sure, but he's a good coach and I fully think we will be in the hunt for a playoff spot next season (if we get a goalie). Keep Hartley, if we miss next season, then find a replacement. Treliving and him need to get on the same page though.

 

[GAMO1992]

No one was complaining about Hartley last season when we made the playoffs. He's coaching a core of boys, who just made the playoffs and heads were to big coming into this season. No one is handing them anything, we aren't that talented, if they want to win, they need to work for it.

Fact is, young teams will have inconsistencies in their game. Hartley deserves criticism for sure, but he's a good coach and I fully think we will be in the hunt for a playoff spot next season (if we get a goalie). Keep Hartley, if we miss next season, then find a replacement. Treliving and him need to get on the same page though.

a goalie.....2 more top 6 wingers(or upgrades).
fact is, next year is going to be another down year for us. so unless we go out and get a Price/Holtby caliber goalie and add a winger like Okposo, we are still going to be lower end of the conference.
Aaheim - constant contender
SJ - are older but might still have 1 good year left in them
L.A. are L.A. consistent playoff contenders/cup contenders, although they do have a couple things to work on, but with the core they have, better than us.
Vancouver - are similar to where we were a few years ago with Iggy and Jaybo and Kipper. they will probably be lower end similar to us.
Edmonton - who knows whats going to happen. but if they move out a forward and bring in some legit D, they might surprise people and not be the constant basement dwellers...or they might be who knows with them?
Arizona - good young core that did well early on in the season. wild card there.

so that top 3 of Anaheim, LA and SJ are really going to be hard pressed to beat out for a divisional playoff spot.

then there's the central. let's not even touch it shall we?
Dallas, Minny, Chicago, Nashville, St. Louis, are all much, much better than we are. So no hoping for a wild card spot. just not going to happen with those teams, next season anyways.

fact is we are still mid rebuild. so blaming everything on Hartley when we are still finding pieces for our roster before we become contenders, is a bit much.
and we HAVE to temper our expectations. we had 1 good, multiple player career years, where other teams struggled mightily and even then we just barely snuck into the playoffs, and had a favorable round 1 matchup against Vancouver.

We still have many, many holes to fill, so no I firmly do not believe we'll be hunt for a playoff spot next season. we're going to be around the same area IMO.

 

[Dertell]

No one was complaining about Hartley last season when we made the playoff.

I don't understand why people are repeating this false talking point.