Confirmed with Link: Hartley Fired Discuss (also Cloutier)

[Volica]

So if the Flames were to punish and demote every player you just mentioned, then please explain what kind of team they were supposed to ice. The guys down in Stockton? Congratulations, you just became the Oilers. Handing NHL spots to young players before they're ready.

You crying about Byron being gone for what is now the ninth month after the fact doesn't do anything to help your argument. [MOD] Get over it.

A hate child of Byron's leaving may have been conceived and is now among us.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

He's gotta be the guy if it's not Boudreau. Chicago's system would be perfect for Calgary. Pretty sure he was the guy that coached Canada's women's hockey to gold as well. They haven't had a lot of success against the US both before and after his stint there.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

A hate child of Byron's leaving may have been conceived and is now among us.

Eww.

But seriously, OKG does have a point. Treliving has made some brutal depth moves that really hurt this team. Byron waived, Raymond signing, Engelland signing, Hiller signing, last year Ramo signing. Most of his depth moves have hurt the team. Can't put that all on Bob.

 

[JPeeper]

It's too bad Hartley was fired but pretty inevitible.

Not Hartley's fault Treliving waived Byron though while giving Brandon Bollig and Mason Raymond roster spots on a platter triggering a team culture that playing defense was less important than facepunching or gettin' paid.

Will be interesting to see who is up.

Yes, a 13th forward is the reason our season went in the toilet and Hartley should get a free pass because of it.

It isn't too bad that Hartley got fired, he was terrible here. 2 6th overall picks and a 4th overall pick in his time here. Phoenix has a much worse roster, and finished higher than us every year except last. His defensive "system" is a laugh out loud joke. He refused to do adapt after everyone figured out our entire breakout was a stretch pass.

If you want to play the Paul Byron card, then I'll play the Baertschi card. Constantly scratched, no ice-time, bad line-mates even though he showed chemistry with Monahan. I'm not mad he is gone, I like that we got Andersson out of the ordeal, but if you are going to be irrational I can too.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

So if the Flames were to punish and demote every player you just mentioned, then please explain what kind of team they were supposed to ice. The guys down in Stockton? Congratulations, you just became the Oilers. Handing NHL spots to young players before they're ready.

Or you just became the Penguins, Handing NHL spots to young players ahead of "veterans" and getting big time contributions from them.

But nice false dichotomy. That everything is Oilers ineptitude vs Non-Oilers common sense.

You crying about Byron being gone for what is now the ninth month after the fact doesn't do anything to help your argument. [MOD] Get over it.

I'm "crying" about a terrible team culture that followed Treliving's "changes". A team culture that was evident from game one forward. But keep on deflecting because I used the demonic name of Paul Byron to make my argument.

 

[JPeeper]

Eww.

But seriously, OKG does have a point. Treliving has made some brutal depth moves that really hurt this team. Byron waived, Raymond signing, Engelland signing, Hiller signing, last year Ramo signing. Most of his depth moves have hurt the team. Can't put that all on Bob.

Raymond signing was terrible. Engelland signing was less terrible because at the time we were near the cap floor and even though I hate his game, he brings a little toughness to the team. Hiller signing was a great signing at the time, just because he was beyond trash this year doesn't mean his great play from last year should be forgotten. If he doesn't re-sign Ramo last year we have a full year of terrible Hiller and rookie Ortio.

Not Treliving's fault he had 3 goalies all play like garbage for the first 2 months. Yes, it can be an awkward situation to have 3 goalies, doesn't mean you should play like ass.

 

[MonyontheMoney]

Or you just became the Penguins, Handing NHL spots to young players ahead of "veterans" and getting big time contributions from them.

Who was gifted a spot on the Penguins?

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Who was gifted a spot on the Penguins?

I never said anyone was "gifted" a spot on the Penguins. But they had multiple AHLers make their NHL roster this year, especially once their season was in panic mode, and that competition changed their team complexion into a hard-working, quick-hitting team instead of a laissez-faire group lacking urgency.

Conor Sheary
Bryan Rust
Brian Dumoulin
Tom Kuhnhackl
Kevin Porter

They also traded away vets who weren't working (David Perron / Rob Scuderi) for players who were better fit their team complexion (Carl Hagelin / Trevor Daley) when has Treliving done that? He hasn't, he's prioritized trade deadline UFA value even if it kills the team in the short term. Hartley is the fall guy for that. That doesn't make Treliving bad but it does make Hartley the Fall Guy. You need to punish people who are underperforming and reward people who you know will give 100%. The moment the waived Byron and yet Bollig was on the roster, was a message to the team that "Always Given Never Earned" no longer applied because Byron earned everything on this team the last two years and Bollig was given everything.

If not Byron, then I'll say Garnet Hathaway probably deserved a roster spot day one, not after David Jones was traded. But what happened? Business was prioiritized but the optics don't favor Hartley.

 

[Fig]

Eww.

But seriously, OKG does have a point. Treliving has made some brutal depth moves that really hurt this team. Byron waived, Raymond signing, Engelland signing, Hiller signing, last year Ramo signing. Most of his depth moves have hurt the team. Can't put that all on Bob.

Treliving's error IMO has always been that he was too conservative.

Most of his moves were due to him thinking we'd be bad for long.

Raymond because he needed a Cammi replacement and didn't expect anything from Gaudreau and Baertschi. Also expected no one to replace him for 3 seasons.

Engos because D or RW and better enforcer to replace McGrattan. Again 3 seasons.

Goalie carousel, I wonder if he was trading Hiller and screwed up and underbid.

Byron he wanted roster spot flexibility due to Byron sucking due to him injured via high ankle sprains and wrist surgery. Let's also not forget Byron didn't play for a good week or two after going to Montreal. I also believe we didn't need to waive Byron. Just wanted the flexibility in case we needed a spot.

Setoguchi. Warm body for RW. Didn't expect Jooris.

Over seasoning kids in AHL so they have a proper development path.

IMO, all of this points at Treliving being overly cautious when he first started.


Could extending Hartley have been a conservative move to ensure coach continuity for a slight while longer vs coach carousel?

 

[Calculon]

Hartley wasn't fired simply because the team struggled last season, or even during most of his tenure. He was fired because he and Treliving didn't see eye-to-eye on the future style of play. Hartley wasn't willing to adapt and work with his superior, so he's out the door. The poor season simply gave Treliving the optical advantage; it's a lot easier to sell firing a coach of the 5th worst team in the league.

Treliving wants a strong defensive system built around puck possession aka the basic fundamentals of successful teams in the modern NHL. Hartley on the other hand, wanted to keep a defensive system that focused on keeping the opposition to the outside but giving them all the time and space in the world to set up, more shot blocking and it can be assumed, continued reliance on the stretch pass.

Believe it or not, Treliving would have likely pulled the trigger last year, or rather simply refused to give Hartley an extension, had the team not so unexpectedly defied the odds. But either way, Hartley was never going to be the coach of the future, and that's been evident for a very long time now.

 

[GAMO1992]

Treliving's error IMO has always been that he was too conservative.

Most of his moves were due to him thinking we'd be bad for long.

Raymond because he needed a Cammi replacement and didn't expect anything from Gaudreau and Baertschi. Also expected no one to replace him for 3 seasons.

Engos because D or RW and better enforcer to replace McGrattan. Again 3 seasons.

Goalie carousel, I wonder if he was trading Hiller and screwed up and underbid.

Byron he wanted roster spot flexibility due to Byron sucking due to him injured via high ankle sprains and wrist surgery. Let's also not forget Byron didn't play for a good week or two after going to Montreal. I also believe we didn't need to waive Byron. Just wanted the flexibility in case we needed a spot.

Setoguchi. Warm body for RW. Didn't expect Jooris.

Over seasoning kids in AHL so they have a proper development path.

IMO, all of this points at Treliving being overly cautious when he first started.


Could extending Hartley have been a conservative move to ensure coach continuity for a slight while longer vs coach carousel?

people seem to forget this really easily. when we signed those contracts(Raymond, Engelland) we were planning on sucking and being bad for a few seasons. Everyone expected us to suck.

NO ONE can say they saw us making the playoffs last year. We were all expecting to be bad, but everyone pretty much had career years, and we squeaked in because the Pacific was garbo that season with L.A/SJ etc under performing.

We are still in that process right now. Hartley did all he could, although I would have thought he'd be given the final year of his deal or up till Xmas before he got canned.

How quickly everyone forgets the longterm plan, of rebuilding thru the draft/developing, after 1 fluke playoff birth and series win against an equally crappy Canucks team.

 

[Unlimited Chequing]

Assistant coach for the Hawks for 2 years now and former Panthers coach.

...

You would have to think he's picked up a thing or two working with Coach Q.

So if we have Toews-lite and Kane-lite, it makes sense we should have Quenneville-lite

 

[Isles5513]

Oh, are we still on the Byron thing? Get over it.

Byron would've said that better.

 

[DFF]

How does Gelinas get to keep his job?

Isnt he responsible for the special teams?

 

[Bounces R Way]

How does Gelinas get to keep his job?

Isnt he responsible for the special teams?

And Sigalet. If I were to bet on any coaching changes over the offseason it'd be those two in front of Hartley and Cloutier.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

How does Gelinas get to keep his job?

Isnt he responsible for the special teams?

And Sigalet. If I were to bet on any coaching changes over the offseason it'd be those two in front of Hartley and Cloutier.

While I don't disagree, I think they are likely giving the power to whomever the end up hiring.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

I think the wording in the official press release that the other guys "will remain with the organization" does not guarantee them jobs as assistant coaches.

 

[Gritty]

I'm a fan of Kevin Dineen, so I'd love to see him behind the bench.

I wonder if St. Louis gets knocked out early Hitchcock becomes available? He'd be a great option!

 

[Calculon]

Ultimate responsibility for the PP and the PK lie with the head coach.

I mean, who decides who gets PP time? Hartley. He said so himself.

So when Wideman and/or Raymond are repeatedly thrown out there while Hamilton and Bennett languish on bench (as was the case for the first half of the season, which coincidentally was when the PP was at it's worst) there's really only one person to blame and that's Hartley.

The PP improved significantly in 2016 and big part of the reason why was replacing Wideman with Hamilton. And the only person that gets credit for that is Wideman.

All that being said, Gelinas being retained doesn't mean he can't still get fired or that they want him to continue being the special team's coach. Could be they let the new head coach determine whether or not he stays and in what capacity, or they eventually shuffle him off to a different department.

 

[Dertell]

How does Gelinas get to keep his job?

Isnt he responsible for the special teams?

Because other than player usage, coaches don't have a big impact on PP. Player usage is on the head coach.

The PK's a different story.

 

[Mr Lebowski]

Dineen would be my top pick, I just don't want Boudreau

 

[tmurfin]

Chances are Geli moves to a different position within the organization. Unless the new coach wants him on his team.

 

[Volica]

I'm saddened that my Byron hate child line didn't get more love.

Disappointed team.

Accusing Treliving of making bad depth moves; we have to understand this team was likely suppose to start competing next year versus last year; two years ahead of plan makes signings look bad.

We were suppose to hit the cap somehow, I don't think anyone was ready for a Dougie blockbuster, Gio, Monny and Johnny becoming top tier players in 2 years

 

[Sean Monahan]

I think boudreau would be perfect with our young players.

 

[Gritty]

I need a new avatar

Not to derail, but I could see Hartley landing in Ottawa.