Guess the Chevy-Maurice contract extensions ain't look'in so bad now eh?!?

[KingBogo]

I've always been a Chevy fan. Loved the long term vision and building from the ground up, rather than trading away the future at some faint hope of competing with the group from Atlanta. Of course I tend to the optimistic and patient end of the spectrum. Though I liked Maurice as an individual I wasn't convinced he was the right guy going into the season. And if push came to shove I probably would have sided with the lets start fresh with a new coach crowd. But this season Mo has convinced me. I've liked how all the young guys are taking steps forward and I like most of his roster moves. I thought last game was just about as well executed game as you will see and Mo has everyone bought in completely and embracing whatever role is provided for them on a nightly basis. To me if you have that and are winning consistently you can compete with anyone.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

I've always been a Chevy fan. Loved the long term vision and building from the ground up, rather than trading away the future at some faint hope of competing with the group from Atlanta. Of course I tend to the optimistic and patient end of the spectrum. Though I liked Maurice as an individual I wasn't convinced he was the right guy going into the season. And if push came to shove I probably would have sided with the lets start fresh with a new coach crowd. But this season Mo has convinced me. I've liked how all the young guys are taking steps forward and I like most of his roster moves. I thought last game was just about as well executed game as you will see and Mo has everyone bought in completely and embracing whatever role is provided for them on a nightly basis. To me if you have that and are winning consistently you can compete with anyone.

I can be labelled a bit of a homer, an over optimist from time to time, but I feel I always truly believed the path to take is the exact path we are on. I said long before we got our team back, that if we ever did get a second crack at the NHL, we need to operate as a draft and develop team, be patient and build it organically.

When I found, and joined this forum in 2014, I was drawn in by reading so much negativity towards Chevy and how he operated. I was surprised that so many felt that after 3 seasons, we should be further ahead than where we were. I came in here guns a blazing and arguing with anyone that thought this could be done at a faster pace, taking a barebones organization like the Thrashers, and morphing it into a deep skilled organization in less than 4 years. Baffled that some actually believed in this 5 year process for building up a depleted organization. Just the simple fact and understanding that on average it takes 4 years to develop a draft pick, one should easily understand that 5 years is just the beginning.

You could see the talent and skill that was being brought in. You could see the improvement in the players, year to year, you knew we were getting better even though we were losing. Winning is always the last metric to improve, and shouldn’t be the sole measurement of success. We are now reaping the wins we all wanted from the beginning. We had to feel some pain to get here, but that pain makes the wins even sweeter, we earned them.

This is not a house of cards, Chevy built this the right way, the hard way. We won’t crash next season, or the next several seasons. We will have some ups and downs, but we are built to be a perennial playoff team capable of winning it all. We did a long steady climb up the roller coaster, now we can enjoy the fast crazy ride down.

 

[Board Bard]

I'm curious, who gets credit for the Jets cap management. Not Chevy, right?

Not to say Chevy isn't involved in that aspect, but I remember a day or two after Trouba signed his last contract Chevy was on the radio talking about it, and he didn't even know the details, even though the general public did.

 

[Whileee]

Not to say Chevy isn't involved in that aspect, but I remember a day or two after Trouba signed his last contract Chevy was on the radio talking about it, and he didn't even know the details, even though the general public did.

Hmmmm...

Doesn't sound like Chevy was out of the loop at all listening to this... Winnipeg Jets GM Kevin Cheveldayoff conference call on Trouba contract | Illegal Curve Hockey ("... this is not the first deal or the last deal that Kurt and I are going to do going forward").

or this... Cheveldayoff: We're excited to have Trouba under contract (talks about meeting face to face with Trouba and also looking at various scenarios that would be acceptable from the Jets' perspective).

Do you have a link to another interview with Chevy that contradicts the information that he shared in these two?

 

[Weezeric]

Hmmmm...

Doesn't sound like Chevy was out of the loop at all listening to this... Winnipeg Jets GM Kevin Cheveldayoff conference call on Trouba contract | Illegal Curve Hockey ("... this is not the first deal or the last deal that Kurt and I are going to do going forward").

or this... Cheveldayoff: We're excited to have Trouba under contract (talks about meeting face to face with Trouba and also looking at various scenarios that would be acceptable from the Jets' perspective).

Do you have a link to another interview with Chevy that contradicts the information that he shared in these two?

Not to mention the highly publicized Tim Hortons visit where Chevy flew out and convinced trouba to sign with a heart to heart over a coffee.

 

[surixon]

At the end of the day Chevy is accountable for all of hockey opps of the organization. While he doesn't run the day to day happenings of the various departments, each department reports to him and ultimately has to meet whatever targets he has set for them.

I'm not sure some on here really understand what a manager does.

A good portion of what being a successful manager involves keeping/putting in place the right people around/below you and giving them the tools needed to successfully do their jobs. Its hard to argue that Chevy hasn't done this to date.

Scouting department - Substantial increase in resources both in terms of increased scouts, as well as a larger travel budget and likely access to more sophisticated tools for example.

 

[Board Bard]

Hmmmm...

Doesn't sound like Chevy was out of the loop at all listening to this... Winnipeg Jets GM Kevin Cheveldayoff conference call on Trouba contract | Illegal Curve Hockey ("... this is not the first deal or the last deal that Kurt and I are going to do going forward").

or this... Cheveldayoff: We're excited to have Trouba under contract (talks about meeting face to face with Trouba and also looking at various scenarios that would be acceptable from the Jets' perspective).

Do you have a link to another interview with Chevy that contradicts the information that he shared in these two?

I don't have a link. It was on 1290 probably, very soon after the contract was signed, and I don't believe it was a conference call type. As Surixon alluded to, the GM has to have a handle on everything but not necessarily all the details. Chevy could have set down contract brushstrokes with Trouba then left the details to an assistant. That's what I thought at the time as well but it still struck me as odd that Chevy wouldn't have some of the primary details of what was a pretty small (in term and salary) contract mastered for a radio interview. I believe the detail he stumbled on was the variance in salary year by year. That's not exactly rocket science. Some of the people around here had it memorized with one look.

 

[JetsUK]

Not to mention the highly publicized Tim Hortons visit where Chevy flew out and convinced trouba to sign with a heart to heart over a coffee.

I heard it was the triple Maple Frapp and Boston cream that got Troubs to sign on the dotted line, and I'm pretty sure Chevs used one of those 10$ vouchers left over from the Jets mini hockey tourney.

In recent interviews Chevy seems to have given a little more detail on the overall arc and specifics of the management plan, and why they've followed it so closely, despite the odd oversight and weak contract. Given our success this year, I'm happy for continued caution over this trading deadline and then taking stock. The Pens have won with top-end talent, elite goaltending and a mostly young, hungry supporting cast. I feel like we have at least the team talent and goaltending to go deep as early as this year.

 

[DK59]

I doubt there's any real point in debating at this point the Chevy/Maurice thing.

It's never been a secret around these parts I don't support or like Kevin Cheveldayoff. Blue shakehead and myself have pretty well debunked all the praise lavished to him over the years, but people have made up their minds in both camps. Honestly even if the Jets win the cup this year or next year I'll still give the credit to the scouting staff and the blind luck of getting Laine and a lot of Chevys bad moves not being able to get done (signing Ladd long term for instance).

The big difference is this year I don't really care or talk about our GM to my friends or family anymore, I just enjoy the hockey and love the winning. It's a little surreal to see us so high in the standings, but also feel really, really good. Especially for us old timers who went thru Jets 1.0 and never really tasted playoff success beyond a couple Calgary series'.

Your pretty high on your opinions when you say you have pretty much debunked the pro Chevy camp's praise. To evaluate anybody in a position of leadership you need to evaluate their whole body work and not cherry pick points that support your contention. And this also means the evaluation needs to be ongoing and not static based on things that happened several years ago or more.

So how exactly did we get where we are today. The answer is excellent drafting and a lot of patience to wait for the young core to become impactful. On both counts we have done very well. The drafting we have done has been exceptional, particularly in the first round. You argue that this is all about the scouting department and I am sure Chevy would be the first to acknowledge the great work they have done. But how exactly can it be that a scouting department that performed very poorly in Atlanta and that was retained almost entirely has managed to perform so well here? Is it all luck or has Chevy put them in a position to be successful that was not present in Atlanta. I can imagine there are quite few places where a GM can put his finger prints on how a scouting department is run that ultimately impacts on how well it performs so I do no not buy into your argument that the drafting an NHL team does is independent of the GM.

You also mention the absence of meaningful trades being a negative. I would argue that making pure hockey trades is very hard and that is why you so few significant trades happen in the NHL. To make good trades now a days it really is a matter of taking advantage of opportunities and there needs to be a motivated buyer or seller on the other side to take advantage of it. I would also say that given how our roster has developed I am kind of glad we made so few meaningful trades because in all likelihood we would be lamenting them now.

And then finally your assertion that Chevy is a lucky GM and that without this luck things would be much different. I think if you dig deep into any successful GM you are going to find fortuitous events that happened that worked in their favour. The fact that you have identified a few that benefited Chevy is really not indicative of anything other than that good and bad luck is a factor in the performance of a GM. Chevy has had more of the former but that can also probably be said of other GM's who have had success.

 

[KingBogo]

Your pretty high on your opinions when you say you have pretty much debunked the pro Chevy camp's praise. To evaluate anybody in a position of leadership you need to evaluate their whole body work and not cherry pick points that support your contention. And this also means the evaluation needs to be ongoing and not static based on things that happened several years ago or more.

So how exactly did we get where we are today. The answer is excellent drafting and a lot of patience to wait for the young core to become impactful. On both counts we have done very well. The drafting we have done has been exceptional, particularly in the first round. You argue that this is all about the scouting department and I am sure Chevy would be the first to acknowledge the great work they have done. But how exactly can it be that a scouting department that performed very poorly in Atlanta and that was retained almost entirely has managed to perform so well here? Is it all luck or has Chevy put them in a position to be successful that was not present in Atlanta. I can imagine there are quite few places where a GM can put his finger prints on how a scouting department is run that ultimately impacts on how well it performs so I do no not buy into your argument that the drafting an NHL team does is independent of the GM.

You also mention the absence of meaningful trades being a negative. I would argue that making pure hockey trades is very hard and that is why you so few significant trades happen in the NHL. To make good trades now a days it really is a matter of taking advantage of opportunities and there needs to be a motivated buyer or seller on the other side to take advantage of it. I would also say that given how our roster has developed I am kind of glad we made so few meaningful trades because in all likelihood we would be lamenting them now.

And then finally your assertion that Chevy is a lucky GM and that without this luck things would be much different. I think if you dig deep into any successful GM you are going to find fortuitous events that happened that worked in their favour. The fact that you have identified a few that benefited Chevy is really not indicative of anything other than that good and bad luck is a factor in the performance of a GM. Chevy has had more of the former but that can also probably be said of other GM's who have had success.

Nice post. And the one real hockey trade Chevy has made has been so lopsided in probably equivalent of a handful of trade wins. Roslovic may just end up being the best player involved after everything is said and done, and we still win the trade not even counting him.

 

[Guerzy]

 

[White Out 902]

I haven't written anything in this thread I consider to be 'debunking' but broad strokes. Blueshakehead and myself have previously over the years imo totally exposed the narrative of Chevy knows best and has a long term plan. The key is that the goal posts seem to be very mobile.

Before we made the playoffs there was a 5 year plan in place, and success was always going to be a very long term project. Then we made the playoffs when, surprise surprise, we got league average goaltending. Suddenly it was George W Bush mission accomplished (much like nowadays). We got swept adn people were like we've arrived! We have playoff experience and a good team moving forward. So then Chevy jettisons the best and cheap parts of our team and hits the reset button, and suddenly the mood changed and suddenly the goal posts moved yet again.

I don't mind the idea that Chevy has learned from previous mistakes, and, has grown into the role. I can deal with that narrative and it's probably very valid. But this fantasy that Chevy has had this penciled out on a napkin from 2011 is just obviously incorrect there's no other word for it.

 

[Whileee]

I haven't written anything in this thread I consider to be 'debunking' but broad strokes. Blueshakehead and myself have previously over the years imo totally exposed the narrative of Chevy knows best and has a long term plan. The key is that the goal posts seem to be very mobile.

Before we made the playoffs there was a 5 year plan in place, and success was always going to be a very long term project. Then we made the playoffs when, surprise surprise, we got league average goaltending. Suddenly it was George W Bush mission accomplished (much like nowadays). We got swept adn people were like we've arrived! We have playoff experience and a good team moving forward. So then Chevy jettisons the best and cheap parts of our team and hits the reset button, and suddenly the mood changed and suddenly the goal posts moved yet again.

I don't mind the idea that Chevy has learned from previous mistakes, and, has grown into the role. I can deal with that narrative and it's probably very valid. But this fantasy that Chevy has had this penciled out on a napkin from 2011 is just obviously incorrect there's no other word for it.

I think you are the one moving goalposts, to be honest. And you are also now creating a strawman. Not a single person has said that the precise plan was detailed in 2011. There is a general approach and philosophy that has been followed.

If you would like to continue to harbor your animus for all things Chevy, that's fine. At least now I think that the chorus has died down because it sounds more and more like sour grapes.

 

[Koonta]

I haven't written anything in this thread I consider to be 'debunking' but broad strokes. Blueshakehead and myself have previously over the years imo totally exposed the narrative of Chevy knows best and has a long term plan. The key is that the goal posts seem to be very mobile.

Before we made the playoffs there was a 5 year plan in place, and success was always going to be a very long term project. Then we made the playoffs when, surprise surprise, we got league average goaltending. Suddenly it was George W Bush mission accomplished (much like nowadays). We got swept adn people were like we've arrived! We have playoff experience and a good team moving forward. So then Chevy jettisons the best and cheap parts of our team and hits the reset button, and suddenly the mood changed and suddenly the goal posts moved yet again.

I don't mind the idea that Chevy has learned from previous mistakes, and, has grown into the role. I can deal with that narrative and it's probably very valid. But this fantasy that Chevy has had this penciled out on a napkin from 2011 is just obviously incorrect there's no other word for it.

The key word in everything you wrote is in your opinion because that is all it is. It's laughable really that you are patting yourself on the back and coming across like you and Blue shakehead were somehow correct all along and others who didn't share your distaste along the way were somehow misinformed. Get over yourself already.

 

[DK59]

I haven't written anything in this thread I consider to be 'debunking' but broad strokes. Blueshakehead and myself have previously over the years imo totally exposed the narrative of Chevy knows best and has a long term plan. The key is that the goal posts seem to be very mobile.

Before we made the playoffs there was a 5 year plan in place, and success was always going to be a very long term project. Then we made the playoffs when, surprise surprise, we got league average goaltending. Suddenly it was George W Bush mission accomplished (much like nowadays). We got swept adn people were like we've arrived! We have playoff experience and a good team moving forward. So then Chevy jettisons the best and cheap parts of our team and hits the reset button, and suddenly the mood changed and suddenly the goal posts moved yet again.

I don't mind the idea that Chevy has learned from previous mistakes, and, has grown into the role. I can deal with that narrative and it's probably very valid. But this fantasy that Chevy has had this penciled out on a napkin from 2011 is just obviously incorrect there's no other word for it.

Let me ask you this question. Given the following do you think year 7 is an unreasonably long time to get into the position we are now in with a solid roster of players and very good pool of prospects:

• First of all we had a very poor prospect pool when the team arrived here and as a result the cupboards were pretty much bare. To put this into perspective the best player that came out of that prospect pool was Ben Chariot or possibly Zac Redmond.
• Second none of the three young high first round picks that we inherited from Atlanta turned into anything so we basically had nobody on that original roster of players 22 and under that ended up being a long term contributor to this team. And the pieces we got for Kane and Bogosian are only now making a big impact to the team.
• If the goal posts were being moved by people there is a reason why this was happening and that was because the younger core had to be completely rebuilt.
• Based on this a time line of year 7 is looking pretty darn good to me. I am just glad Chevy showed the patience to wait for it because it would have been so easy to make moves to give us short term relief at the expense of real long term progress.
• I will also say that any mistakes made were for the most part not at the expense of the longer term future of the team. Chevy's primary focus was always on the longer term so to judge him properly this needs to be kept in mind.

 

[White Out 902]

So I tried earlier and I'll try again; I'm not looking to re-hash old arguments and debates over Chevy. I'll leave it at that.

 

[kittiecarlyle]

Oh David, so wrong for so long.

 

[Ducky10]

I don't have a link. It was on 1290 probably, very soon after the contract was signed, and I don't believe it was a conference call type. As Surixon alluded to, the GM has to have a handle on everything but not necessarily all the details. Chevy could have set down contract brushstrokes with Trouba then left the details to an assistant. That's what I thought at the time as well but it still struck me as odd that Chevy wouldn't have some of the primary details of what was a pretty small (in term and salary) contract mastered for a radio interview. I believe the detail he stumbled on was the variance in salary year by year. That's not exactly rocket science. Some of the people around here had it memorized with one look.

Seriously, is this all you have left? Your efforts to tear down the GM who built this team are reduced to minor details brought up on a radio call in show?

That's pretty funny.

 

[kittiecarlyle]

Seriously, is this all you have left? Your efforts to tear down the GM who built this team are reduced to minor details brought up on a radio call in show?

That's pretty funny.

Otherwise known as, my previous arguments and opinions have been pretty much "debunked" so now I'll grasp at something minute and likely not at all accurate.

Anyone who doesn't believe this team has been correctly built is absolutely wrong. Sure there have been missteps but there always is. Poised to be a serious long term factor, and done in a market that has unique challenges.

Very very well done. Oh, and thank you.

 

[Board Bard]

Seriously, is this all you have left? Your efforts to tear down the GM who built this team are reduced to minor details brought up on a radio call in show?

That's pretty funny.

Get a grip. It happened. Live with it.

 

[nobody important]

I look at the origins of this thread and see the OP Mr. Sip musing aloud then sneaking out to watch the carnage.

I had not considered this. Hmm, I'm sure I could come up with some threads that are prone to carnage, so to speak.

But I won't, of course. Cause I'm a good do-bee.

 

[Whileee]

Get a grip. It happened. Live with it.

I linked to two actual interviews that appear to contradict your claim. Should we go with your memory or perhaps go with the available evidence.

 

[PhilJets]

Man Chevy really built a great team.
Happy for Maurice to get to coach a team that can win. Though he went far in one of his year.

 

[Board Bard]

I linked to two actual interviews that appear to contradict your claim. Should we go with your memory or perhaps go with the available evidence.

Do whatever you want.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

Do whatever you want.

So go with the facts then?