Guess the Chevy-Maurice contract extensions ain't look'in so bad now eh?!?

FonRiesen

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Here's one thing that's changed that can likely be attributed to coaching:

View attachment 95877

That's a pretty impressive change in shot location tendencies, and likely contributes to our goalies lessened workload when it comes to high danger chances.

Does anyone know how much that chart is related to improved goalie rebound control? If I recall correctly Hellebuyck's had a serious problem with that last year. But I agree, it does seem like we see significantly fewer odd man rushes. Can anyone show the stats on that?
 
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Ducky10

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Does anyone know how much that chart is related to umproved goalie rebound control? If I recall correctly Hellebuyck's had a serious problem with that last year. But I agree, it does seem like we see significantly fewer odd man rushes. Can anyone show the stats on that?
His rebound control would have a bit of an influence for sure, and yes he did struggle with that last season. Still, the biggest difference has been the Jets ability to limit chances from in between the hashmarks, they are very stingy in the middle. I don't have the data but it would shock me if the Jets haven't given up significantly less odd man chances this year, their coverage has been night and day better.
 

YWGinYYZ

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Still, the biggest difference has been the Jets ability to limit chances from in between the hashmarks, they are very stingy in the middle.

Changes in this regard over the last three years:

shot_rates.gif
 

DK59

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No kidding! :laugh: I included it as last year was showing some improvements, but the year before that was a tirefire. Quite the difference in defensive strategy.

Last year Maurice did say that the organization made a real commitment to the youth in their lineup and did not want to interfere with the younger players offensive development. So they clearly made an intentional decision to deemphasize defensive structure in order to let the players develop more naturally. But you are right there has been a steady improvement from the first year of the youth movement until now.
I looked at xGoals recently in Corsica over the time the time the team has been in Winnipeg and in particular how the Jets ranked in the league in this measure. Presumably xGoals should be a combination of shot suppression using corsi stats along with the ability to suppress shots in the high danger areas. What was interesting for me was that during the first three years after coming to Winnipeg the xGoal rankings were in the low to mid twenties indicating we were a below average defensive team. In the first full year under Maurice this stat improved dramatically and we moved to the top half of the league in that year. With the youth movement we dropped dramatically the year after and have improved significantly since then. This year we rank 5th in the league in xGoals per game five on five which really indicates how well the team is playing in front of our goalies. I give Helle a lot of credit but what we are seeing really is team effort.
 
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DowntownBooster

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I think Winnipeg fans are sometimes a little impatient when it comes to building a contending team. I'm glad that Mark Chipman stuck with Chevy as GM who in turn stuck with Paul Maurice as Coach. It seems like there's always been a segment of Jets fans that wanted Maurice to get fired during the last couple of seasons and early this season when the Jets started off 0-2 after losses to Toronto and Calgary. We can see now that it would have been unnecessary to have done that as the draft and develop model is finally starting to show dividends. Much the same way with the Blue Bombers when fans were demanding that Mike O'Shea be fired as Coach in 2016 when the team got off to a 1-4 start. Where would the team be now had team President and CEO Wade Miller not shown confidence in GM Kyle Walters and he in turn not stuck by Mike O'Shea. Considering what the Jets initially had to work with when TNSE purchased the Thrashers, they've done a pretty good job in turning the franchise around. Look where the Oilers are today after years of getting the top draft pick. I'd say it was worth it for the Jets to have followed their own path which included being patient.

:jets
 

nobody important

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I think Winnipeg fans are sometimes a little impatient when it comes to building a contending team. I'm glad that Mark Chipman stuck with Chevy as GM who in turn stuck with Paul Maurice as Coach. It seems like there's always been a segment of Jets fans that wanted Maurice to get fired during the last couple of seasons and early this season when the Jets started off 0-2 after losses to Toronto and Calgary. We can see now that it would have been unnecessary to have done that as the draft and develop model is finally starting to show dividends. Much the same way with the Blue Bombers when fans were demanding that Mike O'Shea be fired as Coach in 2016 when the team got off to a 1-4 start. Where would the team be now had team President and CEO Wade Miller not shown confidence in GM Kyle Walters and he in turn not stuck by Mike O'Shea. Considering what the Jets initially had to work with when TNSE purchased the Thrashers, they've done a pretty good job in turning the franchise around. Look where the Oilers are today after years of getting the top draft pick. I'd say it was worth it for the Jets to have followed their own path which included being patient.

:jets

Ottawa won the Grey Cup in the second year of their existence.
Vegas is leading the league in their first year of existence.
We can feel good about the season so far, but if the Jets pull another 4 and out, well... Hell's accounting dept will be on the line and demanding to be paid.
 

White Out 902

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I doubt there's any real point in debating at this point the Chevy/Maurice thing.

It's never been a secret around these parts I don't support or like Kevin Cheveldayoff. Blue shakehead and myself have pretty well debunked all the praise lavished to him over the years, but people have made up their minds in both camps. Honestly even if the Jets win the cup this year or next year I'll still give the credit to the scouting staff and the blind luck of getting Laine and a lot of Chevys bad moves not being able to get done (signing Ladd long term for instance).

The big difference is this year I don't really care or talk about our GM to my friends or family anymore, I just enjoy the hockey and love the winning. It's a little surreal to see us so high in the standings, but also feel really, really good. Especially for us old timers who went thru Jets 1.0 and never really tasted playoff success beyond a couple Calgary series'.
 
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Whileee

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I doubt there's any real point in debating at this point the Chevy/Maurice thing.

It's never been a secret around these parts I don't support or like Kevin Cheveldayoff. Blue shakehead and myself have pretty well debunked all the praise lavished to him over the years, but people have made up their minds in both camps. Honestly even if the Jets win the cup this year or next year I'll still give the credit to the scouting staff and the blind luck of getting Laine and a lot of Chevys bad moves not being able to get done (signing Ladd long term for instance).

The big difference is this year I don't really care or talk about our GM to my friends or family anymore, I just enjoy the hockey and love the winning. It's a little surreal to see us so high in the standings, but also feel really, really good. Especially for us old timers who went thru Jets 1.0 and never really tasted playoff success beyond a couple Calgary series'.
I have thought that your "debunking" was premature. If you still don't think the roster and prospect pipeline is any good, just say it. If you think being a good GM is just about luck, then why bother evaluating them at all.

Is one of the reasons you don't trash the GM to family and friends anymore because it kinda sounds just sour at this point?

I'm also somewhat of an old timer who suffered through the lean times, but I saw what was building. I wasn't the only one. The Hockey News' prediction of the Jets winning the cup in 2019 isn't looking farfetched at this point. As Garret has pointed out, it's still hard to predict success in the playoffs because teams are closely matched, but this team is a legitimate contender.
 
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White Out 902

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Is one of the reasons you don't trash the GM to family and friends anymore because it kinda sounds just sour at this point?

Why would I complain when we're winning? That seems silly. I enjoy the wins. Do you think after we win I scoff at the disappointment in not being able to go after chevy lol?

I have thought that your "debunking" was premature. If you still don't think the roster and prospect pipeline is any good, just say it. If you think being a good GM is just about luck, then why bother evaluating them at all.

I guess I could say the same thing for 5.5 of Chevys 7 years then? I think the roster and prospect line is great, and I attribute that to our scouting staff. I won't re-hash old arguments too much but Chevys made 1 player for player deal in 7 years. That's it. Other than that he's basically listened to his very educated scouts and even got outside help (Hawerchuk talking him into Scheif). He's missed out on some really bad attempts at shortcuts that could have set this thing back years, and he DID set us back years with the pavelec re-signing and no buy out, and keeping guys like Stu thorbs and peluso way too long.
 
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Whileee

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Why would I complain when we're winning? That seems silly. I enjoy the wins. Do you think after we win I scoff at the disappointment in not being able to go after chevy lol?



I guess I could say the same thing for 5.5 of Chevys 7 years then? I think the roster and prospect line is great, and I attribute that to our scouting staff. I won't re-hash old arguments too much but Chevys made 1 player for player deal in 7 years. That's it. Other than that he's basically listened to his very educated scouts and even got outside help (Hawerchuk talking him into Scheif). He's missed out on some really bad attempts at shortcuts that could have set this thing back years, and he DID set us back years with the pavelec re-signing and no buy out, and keeping guys like Stu thorbs and peluso way too long.
None of those potential moves would have made Lowry, Scheifele, Morrissey, Copp, Armia, Connor, Roslovic, Hellebuyck, Ehlers or Laine ready to play at a top level in the NHL any earlier. The timing of the Jets becoming a real contender was based on the development curve of the drafted core. They are hitting their peak now, which is exactly why the Jets see now as the beginning of their real competitive window, jettisoning Pavs, Stuart and Thorbs and bringing in Kulikov and Mason. Was the #RiseTogether slogan they adopted this season just a lucky guess?

I'm curious, who gets credit for the Jets cap management. Not Chevy, right?
 

White Out 902

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ah yes, the old "master plan" argument where we would possibly win a playoff series in the 7th year. delightful. lol.

cmon, lets agree to disagree and no rehash the same old arguments
 

Whileee

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ah yes, the old "master plan" argument where we would possibly win a playoff series in the 7th year. delightful. lol.

cmon, lets agree to disagree and no rehash the same old arguments
You brought up old arguments and now don't want to rehash them? Interesting.:huh:

You didn't address my point. How much sooner do you think the current core could have become a real contender, considering their development trajectories?

I'll add these three questions.

What is your view of the pace and process by which the Jets developed the core prospects I listed above?

Would you have given up any of those young players to accelerate the team development?

Do you think the Jets have a good cap structure to build and retain this core going forward?
 
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oldunclehue

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You brought up old arguments and now don't want to rehash them? Interesting.:huh:

You didn't address my point. How much sooner do you think the current core could have become a real contender, considering their development trajectories?

I'll add these two question.

What is your view of the pace and process by which the Jets developed the core prospects I listed above?

Would you have given up any of those young players to accelerate the team development?

Do you think the Jets have a good cap structure to build and retain this core going forward?


I personally think Chevy and the team has also looked at the league to see which years would be their best shot. Chicago has been scary for us for some time...now they are falling off. Timing is everything, and it seems the development of the team and timing is working out great.
 

Whileee

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Interesting White Out I look at this as one of Chevy’s best moves?
I think his point is that he was saved from this mistake because Ladd held out. When you hold a GM responsible for all of his real mistakes, all of his potential mistakes (even if the evidence is tenuous), ascribe all of his good moves to luck, and ignore many of his good moves (e.g. signing Perreault x 2, signing Kulikov), then it's easy to convince yourself that he's incompetent.

But in previous years any suggestion that his moves were future oriented were countered by the assertion that it was the record that counts. Now that the record is sparkling, that's no longer the measuring stick, though it evidently makes it harder to engage in conversations bashing Chevy and Maurice, now.
 

Jets 31

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Everything is great right now but if we were say having a year like the Oilers , it would be pretty ugly around here . I know i would be saying fire Chevy and Maurice even though i like Maurice and think he is a very smart guy . But i think Chipman liked what these two were doing and liked the direction of his team under these two and ultimately that's all that matters .
 

ps241

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Yea every team has there ups and downs and this is a bad season for Edmonton. As stated right now we are winning so I am going to enjoy the ride and if things go off the rails next season I am sure there will be lots of red meat to open up this debate again........for now we dance!
 
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