Guess the Chevy-Maurice contract extensions ain't look'in so bad now eh?!?

[Whileee]

I guess if you never criticize management decisions and they have a really good season every 4 years, its probably satisfying to rub it in but the people serving up crow today are mostly the same people who were serving it up in the 'Thank You Chevy" thread in 2014-15 so really , how much do those opinions really matter?

I have been one of the harshest Chevy/Mo critics on this site and I picked the Jets to finish 2nd in the central before the season started, knowing that Maurice had been extended, so do I have to eat crow or do I get to serve it? I've made my share of terrible predictions throughout the years but the overall success of the team this year was not one of them. .920 goaltending is a magical thing and covers up a lot of weaknesses. Through the first 20 games, the Jets were lucky to be better than 7-13, in my opinion but Hellebuyck saved their season. Since the Kings game in LA, the overall team game has undergone one of the biggest fancy stats turnarounds since they started collecting data. Now they believe in themselves and they trust the goaltending and that momentum is very difficult to stop.

The more interesting things are *who* and *what* I was wrong about or would not have predicted:

- Lowry becoming a top end 3C and Selke candidate who can legitimately shut down other teams stars while also being able to beat Stamkos in a foot race?
- Steve Mason putting up .an .897 save percentage while the team gets all-star goaltending
- Being top 3 in combined special teams
- Kulikov out-performing expectations
- Tanev, despite his chipmunkian level of hockey IQ, causing enough havoc on the forecheck and drawing enough penalties to become a strong 5v5 player.

Things I am not ready to concede:

- Myers being a good top 4 defenseman. He is very dangerous when he is skating and the puck is on his stick in the offensive zone but he is quite bad at defending and in the other 2 zones and when he is trying to pass.
- Chiarot. Although he has looked better (which happens a lot with .920 goaltending and on top possession teams), we need an upgrade before the trade deadline. I still have him as a below replacement player.
- Maurice. It was interesting that when we lost several players to injury, the replacements (i.e., the people Mo didn't like - Dano/Roslovic/soon to be Petan?) were as good or better than the people they were replacing, at least to my eye. One good season every 5 year is not enough to change my opinion on the losingest coach in history but there is no doubt he has the team believing in themselves and playing excellent hockey. Does that erase 3 years of very bad hockey, with a lot of the same lineup? Not for me and not yet.
- Chevy. F-. Lmao. J/k. We will never know what the team would look like today if Chevy had his way in July of 2015 and re-signed Ladd to 6 years, traded Buff and then didn't win the draft lottery and ended up with Sergachev or Jost? I don't think it would be better. Laine is a franchise changing player. Chevy has definitely grown in the job and excels at some parts - namely contracts/cap management and amateur scouting has been destroying the draft but from 2011 through Sept 2017 he also made some objectively terrible decisions.

Good post.

As I posted above, I think the discourse on this board would have been much better if the discussions had kept to well-formed opinions about Maurice and Chevy, good or bad. It became toxic when some chose to incorporate ad hominem remarks and comments to the discussions. "Apologists", "lovers", "trained seals", etc... those appellations really added nothing to the discussion.

 

[White Out 902]

A high quality post, as per usual, from blue shake

I actually put aside 15 minutes to type up a response to bojangelz reply but you covered it really well here. Before we spike the football this hard and do victory laps, should we wait a little bit first to see how the rest of the season goes and what playoffs bring? and if this is repeatable? I dunno, like the time we got swept but people decided that the rebuild was finished. Or how people predicted Edmonton to win the cup this year (LOL).

This success is incredible. I enjoy every minute of it. This is the best time to be a Jets fan of my 37 years in my life, the only comparable being Teemu's rookie year. The fact is BS correctly pointed out Chevy's been lucky to have fate steer him away from terrible mistakes (Ladd) and deliver him a franchise changing generational scorer (Laine). A blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while, and that's how I see Chevy. He's been patient and that his best quality. He's waited around and our scouts have built a team club and club depth for him to play with. I have no doubt that if I was the GM I could have delivered these same results sitting on my hands and waiting for the scouts to build up the team.

So yeah, I won't be lining up to give Chevy huge props but I am over the moon with our teams play.

 

[Aavco Cup]

How many playoff wins?
Yeah we are all still waiting for ONE.

I can imagine you'd be satisfied with a 4-1 first round exit. So your post come off disingenuous.

The reality is 4-1 vs 4-0 sweep gets you exactly the same result.

I never understood the want to win one playoff game narrative. I want to win playoff series. Winning one game doesn't matter IMO. Although it would shut up this narrative....or maybe it wouldn't. Perhaps it would just cause people to alter it

 

[ulf]

The new era begins. PMo and Chevy have succeeded to this point. Only failure to make the playoffs can change that. Both jobs now change. PMo must win maybe not this playoff but the SC is the ultimate goal and his leash is now shorter given his talent.
Chevy has his Team and must keep it together......no Lucic deals no losing Trouba for less than our perceived value. The haters will preach their doom while believers will Root Root Root for the home team. Mostly a great read and all sides appreciated.

 

[TheJadePipe]

I actually put aside 15 minutes to type up a response to bojangelz reply but you covered it really well here. Before we spike the football this hard and do victory laps, should we wait a little bit first to see how the rest of the season goes and what playoffs bring? and if this is repeatable? I dunno, like the time we got swept but people decided that the rebuild was finished. Or how people predicted Edmonton to win the cup this year (LOL).

This success is incredible. I enjoy every minute of it. This is the best time to be a Jets fan of my 37 years in my life, the only comparable being Teemu's rookie year. The fact is BS correctly pointed out Chevy's been lucky to have fate steer him away from terrible mistakes (Ladd) and deliver him a franchise changing generational scorer (Laine). A blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while, and that's how I see Chevy. He's been patient and that his best quality. He's waited around and our scouts have built a team club and club depth for him to play with. I have no doubt that if I was the GM I could have delivered these same results sitting on my hands and waiting for the scouts to build up the team.

So yeah, I won't be lining up to give Chevy huge props but I am over the moon with our teams play.

It’s easier to make “knee jerk” trades , impulse decisions.... it is difficult to be patient and stay coarse , especially through rough seasons ... Chevy gets huge props

 

[Eyeseeing]

I can imagine you'd be satisfied with a 4-1 first round exit. So your post come off disingenuous.

The reality is 4-1 vs 4-0 sweep gets you exactly the same result.

I never understood the want to win one playoff game narrative. I want to win playoff series. Winning one game doesn't matter IMO. Although it would shut up this narrative....or maybe it wouldn't. Perhaps it would just cause people to alter it

I like where we are at Aavco.
Chevy is the architect.
The building is up & looking good but not finished.
I am thrilled that we are having this success so far.
The schedule is great!
There is chemistry!
There is depth!
There is a buzz again!
Maurice has done a very good job!
So what if some people say ok let’s finish this off... if we bow out round 1 that acceptable?
Many of the more patient posters , obviously not me
posted that there had to be playoff success this year ... go back and check.
Anyways I believe there will be and I am not an I told you so person anyways... I’m just saying it’s premature to say mission accomplished... I don’t believe that to be negative at all.

 

[White Out 902]

It’s easier to make “knee jerk” trades , impulse decisions.... it is difficult to be patient and stay coarse , especially through rough seasons ... Chevy gets huge props

See this is where polite discourse breaks down and civility is threatened. You're right away going into strawman arguments and misrepresenting what I'm saying, and boy is it frustrating.

No where did I discuss or suggest "knee jerk" trades or impulsive decisions be made. In fact I mentioned how Chevys attempt to sign a guy like Ladd or go after expensive free agents and failing on both accounts would have been impulsive moves that luckily fate prevented him from making.

It's not difficult to be patient and stay the "course", in fact that's probably the easiest thing to do. It's where the Chevy cottage meme comes from. You say Chevy has been pragmatic, I say he's been unable to pull the trigger on some terrible signings and moves.

 

[Aavco Cup]

I like where we are at Aavco.
Chevy is the architect.
The building is up & looking good but not finished.
I am thrilled that we are having this success so far.
The schedule is great!
There is chemistry!
There is depth!
There is a buzz again!
Maurice has done a very good job!
So what if some people say ok let’s finish this off... if we bow out round 1 that acceptable?
Many of the more patient posters , obviously not me
posted that there had to be playoff success this year ... go back and check.
Anyways I believe there will be and I am not an I told you so person anyways... I’m just saying it’s premature to say mission accomplished... I don’t believe that to be negative at all.

I'm not sure anyone has said mission accomplished yet. I don't think it's wrong to enjoy the journey along the way.

 

[Eyeseeing]

I'm not sure anyone has said mission accomplished yet. I don't think it's wrong to enjoy the journey along the way.

That I 100% agree with
Tonight should be a good one

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

Anyone too 'tired' to discuss our coaches player utizations in 3v3 overtime? Or are we only allowed to say he is a genius even when he is a moron?

 

[Festinator]

Anyone too 'tired' to discuss our coaches player utizations in 3v3 overtime? Or are we only allowed to say he is a genius even when he is a moron?

I mean we were literally inches away from winning twice in overtime. I personally don't think Laine and Wheeler should have stepped back onto the ice unless the game went to a shootout, but they did come inches away from scoring.

 

[cbcwpg]

Anyone too 'tired' to discuss our coaches player utizations in 3v3 overtime? Or are we only allowed to say he is a genius even when he is a moron?

I was going to ask this myself,...

I don't need fancy stats or anything else to tell me when it comes to our player choices for OT, Maurice is out to lunch. Buff adds excitement, no question, but he is a massive liability... just one example. Or at the very least take into account how someones game has gone... ie: Laine struggled today in all aspects of the game... don't use him in OT.

 

[Whileee]

See this is where polite discourse breaks down and civility is threatened. You're right away going into strawman arguments and misrepresenting what I'm saying, and boy is it frustrating.

No where did I discuss or suggest "knee jerk" trades or impulsive decisions be made. In fact I mentioned how Chevys attempt to sign a guy like Ladd or go after expensive free agents and failing on both accounts would have been impulsive moves that luckily fate prevented him from making.

It's not difficult to be patient and stay the "course", in fact that's probably the easiest thing to do. It's where the Chevy cottage meme comes from. You say Chevy has been pragmatic, I say he's been unable to pull the trigger on some terrible signings and moves.

I don't think he was directing his comments directly at you. I think he was indicating that he liked Chevy's patient approach to building a team, and that he avoided making bad mistakes because of that.

Where discourse breaks down is when people directly impugn the motives or question the objectivity of posters as the response to their opinions.

 

[White Out 902]

I don't think he was directing his comments directly at you. I think he was indicating that he liked Chevy's patient approach to building a team, and that he avoided making bad mistakes because of that.

Where discourse breaks down is when people directly impugn the motives or question the objectivity of posters as the response to their opinions.

He quoted me. I mean. lol. Whatever.

 

[JetsFan815]

Lets be frank, there were many days this forum was unbearable to read, with the absurd and abundant amount of criticism that was happening here.

This season, minus the first 2 games back in October, I have not had a single warning from a mod, for going off the deep end and losing it over the negativity on here.

These days, this forum is a great place to come and read, debate and discuss this team in a sensible manner.

So there was criticism and negativity going on on a message board dedicated to discussing a team that has not won a playoff game and had made the playoffs only once in 6 seasons since relocation and was trotting out some of the worst goaltending in the league year after year? Next thing you're going to tell me is that there's gambling going on in Vegas! What did you expect? Point me to a fan community that is not negative that cheers for a professional team in a competitive league that had a similar record to the Jets. There were plenty of reasons to be down on the Jets all those seasons just like there are plenty of reasons to celebrate their success. You might want to check out boards of some other teams for some perspective- Hawks have won 3 cups in recent years yet their board does not seem all that different from HFJets these last few years in terms of "negativity".

 

[Aavco Cup]

I mean we were literally inches away from winning twice in overtime. I personally don't think Laine and Wheeler should have stepped back onto the ice unless the game went to a shootout, but they did come inches away from scoring.

I think it was three times

 

[Whileee]

So there was criticism and negativity going on on a message board dedicated to discussing a team that has not won a playoff game and had made the playoffs only once in 6 seasons since relocation and was trotting out some of the worst goaltending in the league year after year? Next thing you're going to tell me is that there's gambling going on in Vegas! What did you expect? Point me to a fan community that is not negative that cheers for a professional team in a competitive league that had a similar record to the Jets. There were plenty of reasons to be down on the Jets all those seasons just like there are plenty of reasons to celebrate their success. You might want to check out boards of some other teams for some perspective- Hawks have won 3 cups in recent years yet their board does not seem all that different from HFJets these last few years in terms of "negativity".

Good points, but I think that the discussion often centered on whether Chevy and the Jets were effectively implementing a strategy, which they had outlined from the beginning. Some thought that despite poor performance, decisions that were being made consistently were building a strong roster and prospect pool that would result in good performance in the future. There were even sharp debates about when that future should be "now". Well, the future is "now", and the timeline is not that dissimilar from what many of us were projecting, given the development arcs of many of the core players that the Jets have drafted or acquired as prospects since 2011. What I found frustrating was that if ever one tried to suggest that short-term performance wasn't the only way to assess the strategy or its implementation, or that some of the decisions that were taken had longer-term ramifications, there was too often strong negative pushback that often devolved into ad hominem salvos.

I don't think it's useful to rehash old arguments now that the results are coming up positive. Posters are entitled to praise the results and reconsider past criticisms, either of Chevy or Maurice. I've long held the view that I think Chevy has been putting this team on the right track with his patient development model. I'm not all that surprised that they are now performing well. However, I have been pretty hard on Maurice in the past, and I have to say that I think there might have been some method to his madness, particularly in relation to how he's developed the young players and created a culture that seems conducive to winning. Of course, the jury is still out until we see how this plays out over the next few seasons in terms of consistency and playoff success, but so far, I'm going to give Maurice the benefit of the doubt at this point.

 

[Puckatron 3000]

This success is incredible. I enjoy every minute of it. This is the best time to be a Jets fan of my 37 years in my life, the only comparable being Teemu's rookie year.

Me too, man! It's honestly great to hear some joy in your posts, too.

I'm going to disagree with your characterization of Chevy below though.

The fact is BS correctly pointed out Chevy's been lucky to have fate steer him away from terrible mistakes (Ladd)

In fact I mentioned how Chevys attempt to sign a guy like Ladd or go after expensive free agents and failing on both accounts would have been impulsive moves that luckily fate prevented him from making.

You say Chevy failed to sign Ladd.

This is incorrect. It would be correct to say he didn't sign Ladd. It is incorrect to say he failed to sign Ladd. It is a fundamental misunderstanding of a GM's duties to look at every non-signing as a failure. It is a GM's duty to improve the team. In many cases, that means not signing the best deal that can be negotiated.

If the deal is good for the team, you succeed at signing the player. If the deal is bad for the team, you succeed in not signing the deal. As things turned out, Chevy succeeded in not signing Ladd. The terms that Ladd wanted were unacceptable to him, and there was no compromise that could be found.

Now, there were some media reports of what Chevy offered Ladd as part of the negotiation. But the truth is, we don't know for sure. We don't know if the figures are accurate. We don't know if there were attached conditions, like a medical report on his sports hernia, or simply time to see how well he was recovering. Who knows, maybe every single piece of information "leaked" to the media by a notoriously tight-lipped organization was done so to make the non-signing look like a team unwilling or unable to pay for a desirable player, rather than walking away from an aging player with serious medical issues. The perception of which would impact his trade value.

All we know for sure is that he didn't sign him (the right move). And he made a good trade (the right move).

We know that Cheveldayoff is the one that negotiates the contract offers. We know Cheveldayoff is the one who ultimately approves or rejects the deal for the Jets. We know there's nobody named Fate doing it for him.

I have no doubt that if I was the GM I could have delivered these same results sitting on my hands and waiting for the scouts to build up the team.

I have a fair amount of doubt about that. It's laughable to describe Chevy's job as "sitting on his hands".

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

The new era begins. PMo and Chevy have succeeded to this point. Only failure to make the playoffs can change that. Both jobs now change. PMo must win maybe not this playoff but the SC is the ultimate goal and his leash is now shorter given his talent.
Chevy has his Team and must keep it together......no Lucic deals no losing Trouba for less than our perceived value. The haters will preach their doom while believers will Root Root Root for the home team. Mostly a great read and all sides appreciated.

Serious question - in your post, what success are you referring to when you say that PMo and Chevy have succeeded? I want to understand your goal posts to try to understand your point of view.

 

[Peggy]

Maurice is alright
no one's eating crow
Maurice is still the same coach
the jets are just a better team

Maurice was forced to call up some players that added scoring depth
something he wouldn't have done without injuries

ppl forget how shaky the team was at the beginning of the season and how well helley was playing

Chevy has done well drafting, but his goal tending moves are still suspect

 

[ulf]

Serious question - in your post, what success are you referring to when you say that PMo and Chevy have succeeded? I want to understand your goal posts to try to understand your point of view.

PMo has his Team at the top end in all aspects of the game.....a far cry from his perceived ineptness over the last few years. A tremendous leap forward for a coach with such a mediocre record. Chevy has created (took long enough) possible the best depth of forwards in the league. Both have warts but still look 6 beer good to me. That's as of today, tomorrow My perception and expectations will grow. The glass is now 3/4 full.

 

[Flair Hay]

Doing nothing and sticking with the plan when the team is struggling and not playing to expectations is the hardest part. The easy way is to make changes to shake things up.

 

[DK59]

Serious question - in your post, what success are you referring to when you say that PMo and Chevy have succeeded? I want to understand your goal posts to try to understand your point of view.

We are in a transitional year so there really is not one set of goal posts that we should be looking at. The most immediate goal is having a successful regular season and so far we are progressing well toward this objective with what is at the moment is a nice cushion between us and the bubble teams. Clearly for this particular season to be judged as successful making the the playoffs is a must. It is encouraging that we have also showed significant progress in what I view as the key drivers of success. We continue to see our players develop in a positive way, we are now showing excellent depth throughout the roster, the underlying metrics all look positive and we have improved significantly in in some critical areas like penalty killing and power play performance. So the good news is that our placement in the standings as well as the key success drivers are both pointing in the right direction. If you take a more forward looking view to drivers of long term success we continue to see an excellent pipeline of younger players that provide the team with some much needed flexibility for future roster management and we have a number of key players signed to favourable team friendly contracts which only serve to enhance the future potential for this team.

Immediate playoff success is another goal that I am sure is front and centre in the minds of Jets management, particularly given the position we find ourselves in the standings. We clearly have the potential to make some noise in the playoffs this year so at a minimum I am looking for us to be highly competitive in the playoffs. Unfortunately we have a league with a great deal of parity and playoff success is highly unpredictable. At a minimum I am looking for the Jets to perform at a high level and for them to be a very hard out for any team that manages to beat them. If they achieve this the team will have made a significant step forward and the results for this year at least can be judged as successful in my view.

 

[Whileee]

Serious question - in your post, what success are you referring to when you say that PMo and Chevy have succeeded? I want to understand your goal posts to try to understand your point of view.

Great young roster. Very good prospect pipeline. Good cap situation. Jets 3rd in the NHL. Moose hovering near the top of the AHL.

I think it's easier to give kudos to Chevy than Maurice at this point, mostly because assessing him means assessing the quality of the roster and prospect pool, which is a bit more robust than the standings. Maurice's performance is going to be assessed based over a longer time period based on how the Jets perform over the next 2-3 years.

 

[Whileee]

Maurice is alright
no one's eating crow
Maurice is still the same coach
the jets are just a better team

Maurice was forced to call up some players that added scoring depth
something he wouldn't have done without injuries

ppl forget how shaky the team was at the beginning of the season and how well helley was playing

Chevy has done well drafting, but his goal tending moves are still suspect

Sure, but 52 games and 13 regulation losses.... think about that. Missed two top-4 D for a stretch, then the #1 and #3 centers for a stretch, and the #1 and #4 D now. The team is near the top in shot metrics and special teams performance. Critiquing Maurice's coaching performance for this season is pretty weak. If another coach had come in and had the team performing at this level, I would bet that all of Maurice's critics would have been praising the new coach to the sky and lobbying for an Adams trophy nomination.