Guess the Chevy-Maurice contract extensions ain't look'in so bad now eh?!?

[Puckatron 3000]

Because Hendricks' shootout success rate on 28 attempts over 11 seasons is statistically meaningless.

Ugh.

Gm0ney, you wrote a post, using statistics, to critique using Hendricks in the shootout. Now, after being shown your analysis was wrong, you want to claim those statistics, which were the total basis for your original post, are meaningless.

See the problem?

sob stories about making Hendricks a hero in front of his kids. What is this, a Disney movie?

I don't know what to tell you if you don't believe morale is a real and important thing.

I do know even a crappy Disney movie would be better than watching your circus act in this thread.

 

[Gm0ney]

Ugh.

Gm0ney, you wrote a post, using statistics, to critique using Hendricks in the shootout. Now, after being shown your analysis was wrong, you want to claim those statistics, which were the total basis for your original post, are meaningless.

See the problem?

No, my original conclusion is right there - "there's no statistical case for using Hendricks in the shootout." Was I implying that there was a statistical case against it? Maybe - but let me try to walk you through it. See, you look at a player like Hendricks (4th liner, grit, not much offense) and it's likely he won't good at shootouts. So when you see his career shootout numbers aren't bad, you wonder what's going on. Then you see he was really good one year and meh/bad the rest. Of course sample size is an issue, but based on the expectations you'd have for him, you have to think his good year was an outlier. But that's the wrong inference - actually it's that the whole sample is meaningless. Of course, I didn't get around to that until you decided to exhume that post...

I don't know what to tell you if you don't believe morale is a real and important thing.

I do know even a crappy Disney movie would be better than watching your circus act in this thread.

It's quite a jump from me dismissing your fairytale about Hendricks' kid and losing the room to "Gm0ney doesn't believe in morale".

And I don't know...a circus act sounds pretty entertaining. Have you seen "The Black Hole"? Disney kinda rushed that one out the door in the late 70s after Star Wars became a big hit and every studio wanted to get in on the space action. It's not great...

 

[Whileee]

There must be fewer and fewer reasons to complain about Chevy and Maurice, because now we're focusing for page after page on his selection for the 4th shootout shooter... Happy times!

 

[cbcwpg]

It's a damn shootout. Who cares who takes the shot. If Hendricks had scored everyone complaining would be calling it a genius move.

What I want to see is Maurice and the other team's coach walk to center ice and flip a coin to decide who wins the shootout. This would send the proper message to the NHL as to how stupid shootouts are in the first place.

 

[Flair Hay]

There must be fewer and fewer reasons to complain about Chevy and Maurice, because now we're focusing for page after page on his selection for the 4th shootout shooter... Happy times!

The title of the thread sums it up pretty well

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

For the past several season, I, along with a few others on this forum, defended the job Chevy was doing, adamantly. Some were capable of seeing the talent that was drafted and being developed was going to lead to better days, while many could only understand the win loss record, and equate that to Chevy and Maurice not being good at their jobs.

When we would defend them, often led to being lambasted on here for being homers, for being ignorant ect….. today we laugh hard. Many of those naysayers, the ones that portrayed this organization as heavily flawed with incompetent management and coaching, are now quiet, or have come to the realization they were utterly and epically wrong, have now changed their tunes.

Either way, today, this season, some on here can take solace in knowing we were right in our assessment, we saw the talent, we knew it was going to make us better but there is a process to this evolution.

 

[10Ducky10]

But but but he played Hendricks!!!

 

[Whileee]

But but but he played Hendricks!!!

... and Tanev... and Copp.

 

[Gm0ney]

For the past several season, I, along with a few others on this forum, defended the job Chevy was doing, adamantly. Some were capable of seeing the talent that was drafted and being developed was going to lead to better days, while many could only understand the win loss record, and equate that to Chevy and Maurice not being good at their jobs.

When we would defend them, often led to being lambasted on here for being homers, for being ignorant ect….. today we laugh hard. Many of those naysayers, the ones that portrayed this organization as heavily flawed with incompetent management and coaching, are now quiet, or have come to the realization they were utterly and epically wrong, have now changed their tunes.

Either way, today, this season, some on here can take solace in knowing we were right in our assessment, we saw the talent, we knew it was going to make us better but there is a process to this evolution.

"(Four score and) seven years ago, our Chipman brought forth upon this city a new team, conceived in draft & develop, and dedicated to the proposition that all management decisions are inviolable. Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether this fanbase, or any fanbase so conceived and so dedicated to saying "I told you so", can long endure."

I'm happy that you (and all the other fans of your ilk) are finally being rewarded for your faith. Of course, I might point out that critical fans are also being rewarded despite their heresy...

 

[Ducky10]

For the past several season, I, along with a few others on this forum, defended the job Chevy was doing, adamantly. Some were capable of seeing the talent that was drafted and being developed was going to lead to better days, while many could only understand the win loss record, and equate that to Chevy and Maurice not being good at their jobs.

When we would defend them, often led to being lambasted on here for being homers, for being ignorant ect….. today we laugh hard. Many of those naysayers, the ones that portrayed this organization as heavily flawed with incompetent management and coaching, are now quiet, or have come to the realization they were utterly and epically wrong, have now changed their tunes.

Either way, today, this season, some on here can take solace in knowing we were right in our assessment, we saw the talent, we knew it was going to make us better but there is a process to this evolution.

#havesomehumility, it's better to know you've been right without rubbing a lot of noses in it.

And I believe everyone was a supporter of this team all along, just because some didn't necessarily agree with Chevy, doesn't make them fake fans now.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

#havesomehumility, it's better to know you've been right without rubbing a lot of noses in it.

And I believe everyone was a supporter of this team all along, just because some didn't necessarily agree with Chevy, doesn't make them fake fans now.

Speaking more towards some that made very harsh criticism towards management, coaches and players, not those that had constructed criticism towards those same entities. There were plenty of both. Those that were outlandishly harsh on Chevy and Maurice, showed little support for the team, since it was the team he was building and Maurice was coaching.

I think some should be reminded of that criticism, they sure didn’t refrain from reminding us of Pavs and Stuart’s contracts, Frolik not being resigned, Thorburn being resigned ect... after every loss for the past 5 years.

 

[surixon]

Well Maurice has proven me wrong. He did what I was hoping he would but after last year wasn't expecting by adapting his tactics and really growing as a coach with this team. Hope he keeps it up.

I have always understood and stood by the approach Chevy was taking. I am not surprised at the results and how the org as a whole as really come together. I think he is one of the better GM's in the business and has a number of really strong traits. He is adaptable (Is forward thinking with regards to analytics, you can see him learn from his mistakes) He is also very patient and is willing to hold firm when need be.

 

[Eyeseeing]

Speaking more towards some that made very harsh criticism towards management, coaches and players, not those that had constructed criticism towards those same entities. There were plenty of both. Those that were outlandishly harsh on Chevy and Maurice, showed little support for the team, since it was the team he was building and Maurice was coaching.

I think some should be reminded of that criticism, they sure didn’t refrain from reminding us of Pavs and Stuart’s contracts, Frolik not being resigned, Thorburn being resigned ect... after every loss for the past 5 years.

How many playoff wins?
Yeah we are all still waiting for ONE.
The team still haven’t accomplished anything at this point,so skepticism isn’t unexpected or unwarranted.
The Central has lots of good teams and for the first time we might be able to say we are one of them.
It’s ok to have different opinions and points of view.

 

[Festinator]

How many playoff wins?
Yeah we are all still waiting for ONE.
The team still haven’t accomplished anything at this point,so skepticism isn’t unexpected or unwarranted.
The Central has lots of good teams and for the first time we might be able to say we are one of them.
It’s ok to have different opinions and points of view.

Kinda hard to win a playoff game before the playoffs have started, you have to admit. Kinda dumb to still be complaining about that when they haven't had the chance to show what they can do during the playoffs.

You can puff your chest and say you were right if we get swept again, but until then, just accept that we have a good team with literally all signs pointing to having the ability to do damage in the playoffs. That's where we're at

 

[Eyeseeing]

Kinda hard to win a playoff game before the playoffs have started, you have to admit. Kinda dumb to still be complaining about that when they haven't had the chance to show what they can do during the playoffs.

You can puff your chest and say you were right if we get swept again, but until then, just accept that we have a good team with literally all signs pointing to having the ability to do damage in the playoffs. That's where we're at

Huh?
I was responding to another poster who was in the I told you so mind set.
So context is important try to keep up.

 

[Festinator]

Huh?
I was responding to another poster who was in the I told you so mind set.
So context is important try to keep up.

How many playoff wins?
Yeah we are all still waiting for ONE.

This is what I'm responding too. Very tired of hearing "but they still haven't won a playoff game!" or "win a playoff game first" before any credit is given to the Jets.

 

[Eyeseeing]

This is what I'm responding too. Very tired of hearing "but they still haven't won a playoff game!" or "win a playoff game first" before any credit is given to the Jets.

And conversely many are tired of endless accolades that are a bit presumptuous and premature at this point.
I am glad the season is going the way it is.
I have even eaten some crow.
But over half the teams make the playoffs every year...
We are 1/6
Looking like 2/7.... now let’s do something first.

 

[Whileee]

Speaking more towards some that made very harsh criticism towards management, coaches and players, not those that had constructed criticism towards those same entities. There were plenty of both. Those that were outlandishly harsh on Chevy and Maurice, showed little support for the team, since it was the team he was building and Maurice was coaching.

I think some should be reminded of that criticism, they sure didn’t refrain from reminding us of Pavs and Stuart’s contracts, Frolik not being resigned, Thorburn being resigned ect... after every loss for the past 5 years.

I don't mind so much those that criticised Chevy and Maurice, but have found it quite a chore to get through the torrent of criticism that was unleashed whenever anyone on these boards tried to see anything rational or positive in what Jets management was doing.

 

[Channelcat]

There must be fewer and fewer reasons to complain about Chevy and Maurice, because now we're focusing for page after page on his selection for the 4th shootout shooter... Happy times!

I didn't like his tie the other day. Actually Id like to see him sporting the sweaters again

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

I was never too hard on Chevy, I could see the team was moving in the right direction in terms of talent. I was fine with giving him a year or two more to see if we could transition into a contender, and he delivered.

I will eat my delicious crow on Maurice though. I wanted him gone and didn't believe he could lead this team to anything of consequence. I still don't like a lot of his lineup decisions (Hendricks playing every night, a line of Connor - Hendricks - Tanev ???), but he has this team playing hard every night, our special teams is night and day better and we are taking less penalties than last year. Add in that he made the switch early to Helle and didn't go back to the 'established starter who is getting paid 4 million to be a starter not a backup', and he has done a lot right this year.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

I guess if you never criticize management decisions and they have a really good season every 4 years, its probably satisfying to rub it in but the people serving up crow today are mostly the same people who were serving it up in the 'Thank You Chevy" thread in 2014-15 so really , how much do those opinions really matter?

I have been one of the harshest Chevy/Mo critics on this site and I picked the Jets to finish 2nd in the central before the season started, knowing that Maurice had been extended, so do I have to eat crow or do I get to serve it? I've made my share of terrible predictions throughout the years but the overall success of the team this year was not one of them. .920 goaltending is a magical thing and covers up a lot of weaknesses. Through the first 20 games, the Jets were lucky to be better than 7-13, in my opinion but Hellebuyck saved their season. Since the Kings game in LA, the overall team game has undergone one of the biggest fancy stats turnarounds since they started collecting data. Now they believe in themselves and they trust the goaltending and that momentum is very difficult to stop.

The more interesting things are *who* and *what* I was wrong about or would not have predicted:

- Lowry becoming a top end 3C and Selke candidate who can legitimately shut down other teams stars while also being able to beat Stamkos in a foot race?
- Steve Mason putting up .an .897 save percentage while the team gets all-star goaltending
- Being top 3 in combined special teams
- Kulikov out-performing expectations
- Tanev, despite his chipmunkian level of hockey IQ, causing enough havoc on the forecheck and drawing enough penalties to become a strong 5v5 player.

Things I am not ready to concede:

- Myers being a good top 4 defenseman. He is very dangerous when he is skating and the puck is on his stick in the offensive zone but he is quite bad at defending and in the other 2 zones and when he is trying to pass.
- Chiarot. Although he has looked better (which happens a lot with .920 goaltending and on top possession teams), we need an upgrade before the trade deadline. I still have him as a below replacement player.
- Maurice. It was interesting that when we lost several players to injury, the replacements (i.e., the people Mo didn't like - Dano/Roslovic/soon to be Petan?) were as good or better than the people they were replacing, at least to my eye. One good season every 5 year is not enough to change my opinion on the losingest coach in history but there is no doubt he has the team believing in themselves and playing excellent hockey. Does that erase 3 years of very bad hockey, with a lot of the same lineup? Not for me and not yet.
- Chevy. F-. Lmao. J/k. We will never know what the team would look like today if Chevy had his way in July of 2015 and re-signed Ladd to 6 years, traded Buff and then didn't win the draft lottery and ended up with Sergachev or Jost? I don't think it would be better. Laine is a franchise changing player. Chevy has definitely grown in the job and excels at some parts - namely contracts/cap management and amateur scouting has been destroying the draft but from 2011 through Sept 2017 he also made some objectively terrible decisions.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

I don't mind so much those that criticised Chevy and Maurice, but have found it quite a chore to get through the torrent of criticism that was unleashed whenever anyone on these boards tried to see anything rational or positive in what Jets management was doing.

Lets be frank, there were many days this forum was unbearable to read, with the absurd and abundant amount of criticism that was happening here.

This season, minus the first 2 games back in October, I have not had a single warning from a mod, for going off the deep end and losing it over the negativity on here.

These days, this forum is a great place to come and read, debate and discuss this team in a sensible manner.

 

[scelaton]

I guess if you never criticize management decisions and they have a really good season every 4 years, its probably satisfying to rub it in but the people serving up crow today are mostly the same people who were serving it up in the 'Thank You Chevy" thread in 2014-15 so really , how much do those opinions really matter?

I have been one of the harshest Chevy/Mo critics on this site and I picked the Jets to finish 2nd in the central before the season started, knowing that Maurice had been extended, so do I have to eat crow or do I get to serve it? I've made my share of terrible predictions throughout the years but the overall success of the team this year was not one of them. .920 goaltending is a magical thing and covers up a lot of weaknesses. Through the first 20 games, the Jets were lucky to be better than 7-13, in my opinion but Hellebuyck saved their season. Since the Kings game in LA, the overall team game has undergone one of the biggest fancy stats turnarounds since they started collecting data. Now they believe in themselves and they trust the goaltending and that momentum is very difficult to stop.

The more interesting things was *who* and *what* I was wrong about or would not have predicted:

- Lowry becoming a top end 3C and Selke candidate who can legitimately shut down other teams stars while also being able to beat Stamkos in a foot race?
- Steve Mason putting up .an .897 save percentage while the team gets all-star goaltending
- Being top 3 in combined special teams
- Kulikov out-performing expectations
- Tanev, despite his chipmunkian level of hockey IQ, causing enough havoc on the forecheck and drawing enough penalties to become a very strong 5v5 player.

Things I am not ready to concede:

- Myers being a good top 4 defenseman. He is very dangerous when he is skating and when the puck is on his stick in the offensive zone but he is quite bad at defending and in the other 2 zones and when he is trying to pass.
- Chiarot. Although he has looked better (which happens a lot with .920 goaltending and on top possession teams), we need an upgrade before the trade deadline. I still have him as a below replacement player.
- Maurice. It was interesting that when we lost several players to injury, the replacements (i.e., the people Mo didn't like - Dano/Roslovic/soon to be Petan?) were as good or better than the people they were replacing, at least to my eye. One good season every 5 year is not enough to change my opinion on the losingest coach in history but there is no doubt he has the team believing in themselves and playing excellent hockey. Does that erase 3 years of very bad hockey, with a lot of the same lineup? Not for me and not yet.
- Chevy. F-. Lmao. J/k. We will never know what the team would look like today if Chevy had his way in July of 2015 and re-signed Ladd to 6 years, traded Buff and then didn't win the draft lottery and ended up with Sergachev or Jost? I don't think it would be better. Laine is a franchise changing player. Chevy has definitely grown in the job and excels at some parts - namely contracts/cap management and amateur scouting has been destroying the draft but from 2011 through Sept 2017 he also made some objectively terrible decisions.

Fair enough.
I don't really think it's ever possible or even desirable to reconcile the opinions of the thoughtful critics and supporters--they are made of different DNA.
Re Chevy, my take all along has been that even the best leaders make multiple mistakes, but so long as they are able to conceive and execute on a solid long-term plan--I am willing to wait and be supportive. I outlined what I thought A Five Year (or so) Plan was in a thread a long time ago and it took 6 seasons to come to fruition, but I am not complaining or gloating....OK, maybe just a little bit. The point is that parsing his every move--particularly the bad ones-- missed the big picture. Of course Chevy was lucky with Laine and has benefited from incredible scouting, but the overall plan was his, and none of his "terrible decisions" will be more than footnotes if the team executes the plan.
As for Maurice, I frankly don't understand hockey coaching well enough to comment from a technical perspective, but it's pretty clear that labels like "losingest coach in history " largely describe bad teams, just as the "winningest" coaches are affected by great franchises. These records are the plus/minus equivalent of judging coaches. So, coaching success is about good fortune but also about the right fit, and Maurice seems to have found a fit with this group. We shall see--he is still young, has real good talent, so his legacy has not yet been written.

 

[Puckatron 3000]

The more interesting things are *who* and *what* I was wrong about or would not have predicted:

- Lowry becoming a top end 3C and Selke candidate who can legitimately shut down other teams stars while also being able to beat Stamkos in a foot race?
- Steve Mason putting up .an .897 save percentage while the team gets all-star goaltending
- Being top 3 in combined special teams
- Kulikov out-performing expectations
- Tanev, despite his chipmunkian level of hockey IQ, causing enough havoc on the forecheck and drawing enough penalties to become a strong 5v5 player.

One good season every 5 year is not enough to change my opinion on the losingest coach in history.

Pretty good post, for the most part. But wow, that's a lot of mistakes / missed predictions. Good thing we're not pinning labels on the losingest posts in HFJets history.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

The record in the standings shows partial year success. The coach and GM deserve their fair share of the credit. In the same way that we identify players for mistakes during a game, expect that people will identify mistakes made by the coach and GM (I fully understand that some poster's 'mistake' may be viewed by another poster as 'brilliance'). That's kind of what these forums are for, isn't it? To discuss these things.

The idea that we can only throw accolades at these guys, or that we can't bring up that fact that in 5 years we have not won a playoff game because some people are 'tired', seems completely counter to what these fan forums are about.

I think the Captain of this team has it 100% right. 'We haven't won anything yet'. Those are his words and that is the right attitude. Don't dislocate your shoulder patting yourself on the back because you are in a playoff spot part way through season 6. Keep working, stay hungry, get points. Get to the playoffs. Win some games. Win a series or so maybe. Build on that success going forward.

I fully expect that this year will be a year of building and gaining playoff experience. I have been vocal that our lack of playoff experience will affect us this year. Hope I am wrong. But no matter what some people say, you will not convince me that it needed to be this way - no playoff experience. We could have already built some playoff experience if different decisions were made after 14-15 and that experience would be helping us NOW during the next few strong roster years. But we are where we are, and I am enjoying the ride.