GSN's Blame Game

Micklebot

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Apr 27, 2010
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Game 20 (WSH):

GA1: Karlsson goes into no man's land and loses positioning. Claesson fails to tie up the stick of Vrana. 0.5 each
GA2: Ceci is either lazy or just fell asleep, gives Ovechkin a breakaway. 1.0 for Ceci
GA3: PP goal. It was a scramble and a broken play. Can't blame anyone.
GA4: Ceci is out of position, Andy lets in a good shot but from a bad angle. 0.5 each.

Oduya did nothing to help on that 2nd goal either, and probably should have been back further and perhaps more towards the center of the ice to play it as a 2 one 1 given how deep Ceci was. He basically played Chaisson like he was the one on a breakaway and gave up the pass to a streaking OV, but yeah, I think with so little time left and in the OZ, they thought they could pressure without fear of a counter attack.

Also, on goal 4, Dzingel was terrible. I mean, he's a forward playing D in place of Ceci who was caught deep, but come on, that was rough. He basically waived at Kuznetzov who set a bit of pick for Ceci and gave up the open lane to Vrana.
 

God Says No

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Game 21 (CBJ):
GA1: Burrows muffs the puck, then panics and tries to pass it unsuccessfully creating a breakaway goal. 1.0 Burrows.
GA2: Seeing eye shot that was borderline goalie interference. No blame.
GA3: Duchene fails to clear, resulting in a defensive zone turnover. Hoff and Dzingel are ghosts. 0.5 each.
GA4: Karlsson gambles and gets caught in the o-zone, Dzingel doesn't cover. Karlsson and Dzingel 0.5 each.
GA5: Empty net goal. No blame.
 
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Karl Prime

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I would give on the fourth goal 0.5 Karlsson and 0.5 whoever should have been covering him. It's not like he jumped into the play late with forwards in front of him, he was leading it with Duchene.
 

God Says No

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I would give on the fourth goal 0.5 Karlsson and 0.5 whoever should have been covering him. It's not like he jumped into the play late with forwards in front of him, he was leading it with Duchene.

That's fair. I'll have to check the highlights who was responsible for covering though as I didn't notice during the game.
 

Micklebot

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Watch Hoffman.
Dzingel was just watching too. He was up at our blue line hoping for an offensive rush and left Akinson completely alone. Had he kept a little tighter to him, maybe he can break up the play. There was a 50 foot gap between Ceci (in front of the net) and Dzingel, with Atkinson waiting for the puck right in the middle.

I think Boucher is right that during this scoring drought, the guys are trying to rush things offensively.
 
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Korpse

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Dzingel was just watching too. He was up at our blue line hoping for an offensive rush and left Akinson completely alone. Had he kept a little tighter to him, maybe he can break up the play. There was a 50 foot gap between Ceci (in front of the net) and Dzingel, with Atkinson waiting for the puck right in the middle.

I think Boucher is right that during this scoring drought, the guys are trying to rush things offensively.

Oh yeah Dzingel definitely isn’t free of the blame. They certainly have been cheating offensively once they have the puck it creates two issues when you jump ahead of the play. 1) harder to get the puck up ice. 2) don’t have numbers back. I don’t ever recall this being a problem last season. It’s the 2015/2016 senators all of a sudden.
 

Micklebot

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Oh yeah Dzingel definitely isn’t free of the blame. They certainly have been cheating offensively once they have the puck it creates two issues when you jump ahead of the play. 1) harder to get the puck up ice. 2) don’t have numbers back. I don’t ever recall this being a problem last season. It’s the 2015/2016 senators all of a sudden.

There isn't a great angle in any of the replays I saw, but you could really tell that Dzingel was hoping for a breakaway outlet pass or something. Hoffman looked like he couldn't decided whether to support Duchene buy out manning Clb at the puck, or jamming the point to chip the puck out of the OZ, and just hung out in limbo. Of all the forwards on that play, Duchene imo is the least culpable for the goal.
 

Korpse

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There isn't a great angle in any of the replays I saw, but you could really tell that Dzingel was hoping for a breakaway outlet pass or something. Hoffman looked like he couldn't decided whether to support Duchene buy out manning Clb at the puck, or jamming the point to chip the puck out of the OZ, and just hung out in limbo. Of all the forwards on that play, Duchene imo is the least culpable for the goal.

100% agree. Its easy to blame the guy who had the puck. Those are the kind of details that a coach notices, often overlooked by the fan base though.
 
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God Says No

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There isn't a great angle in any of the replays I saw, but you could really tell that Dzingel was hoping for a breakaway outlet pass or something. Hoffman looked like he couldn't decided whether to support Duchene buy out manning Clb at the puck, or jamming the point to chip the puck out of the OZ, and just hung out in limbo. Of all the forwards on that play, Duchene imo is the least culpable for the goal.

His play was still soft on that goal. But I agree with you guys that Dzingel and Hoff share the blame. Will distribute 0.5 to each.
 

God Says No

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I would give on the fourth goal 0.5 Karlsson and 0.5 whoever should have been covering him. It's not like he jumped into the play late with forwards in front of him, he was leading it with Duchene.

Ok, rewatched it. Dzingel was the RW and didn't get back. Hoffman tried to come back but was not in time. I will give 0.5 to Dzingel.
 

Micklebot

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His play was still soft on that goal. But I agree with you guys that Dzingel and Hoff share the blame. Will distribute 0.5 to each.

I can live with that, but it looked to me like he expected Hoffman to dash up the wall but hoffman was sleeping. I really feel this is a system/communication breakdown where someone zigs when they should have zagged, like when the QB calls a post, and the WR runs a curl.
 

God Says No

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Game 22 (NYI):
GA1: PP goal, can't really blame anyone.
GA2: Smith gets taken for a ride, then bumps into Thompson taking him out of the play creating a odd man mini rush. I also thought Andy could have been better. Opinions on that? But for now 0.5 to Smith.
 

Micklebot

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Against the Habs:

Goal 1: Penalty shot, so I guess you can blame Ceci for taking the penalty.

Goal 2: What a cluster f*. Ceci chases the dump in with Pacioretty forchecking, but unfortunatley the other sen that was deep is Dzingel, and rather than go provide an pass option, he blows the zone before we get near the puck so he can make a line change (2nd period, so it's the long change). Pacioretty engages Ceei in a puck battle in the corner and heading behind the net, Brassard buzzes the tower and stops on behind the net a few feet away from Ceci and Pacioretty. Shaw comes in and ends up against the boards on the far side of Brass. Ceci and Pacioretty continue to battle and the puck squirts out from them right in front of Brassard who allows Shaw to reach out in front of him and swipe the puck into the slot. All this time, Phaneuf is defending the wrong side of the net, oblivious to the trailing forward coming in and scoring the goal. Smith is hanging out in the high slot and also doesn't pick up anyone that I can tell, and Ryan finally gets into the zone thanks to that ridiculous line change Dzingel went on.

I don't know, .5 pts for Dzingel, Phaneuf, and Brassard? The bystanders were easily the worst offenders on this play in my opinion.
 

God Says No

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This is what I had.

Game 23 (MTL)

GA1: Ceci caught sleeping and lets Drouin have a breakaway. 1.0 Ceci.
GA2: Ceci coughs up the puck, Brassard has a chance to control it but loses the battle, Smith is just standing there watching as his man goes by him and scores. 0.5 each.

BTW, is it possible to do a sortable table? It's really a pain to sort the table on the ever changing values...
 

Korpse

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This is what I had.

Game 23 (MTL)

GA1: Ceci caught sleeping and lets Drouin have a breakaway. 1.0 Ceci.
GA2: Ceci coughs up the puck, Brassard has a chance to control it but loses the battle, Smith is just standing there watching as his man goes by him and scores. 0.5 each.

BTW, is it possible to do a sortable table? It's really a pain to sort the table on the ever changing values...

I think doing the table in excel and posting a screenshot is likely the easiest option.

I'm really not comfortable placing all the blame if any on Ceci on either goal. I had an issue with the recording, I'm only able to replay the first 30 minutes so i'm relying on short clips here.

GA1: Ceci reads the play well, he is towards to boards to provide support to the winger at the blue line if the puck goes up the boards. Harpur however is slow to identify where the puck is going and isn't able to get to the middle of the ice to cut off that lane. It's easy to blame the last man back for not picking up the man but there's a much bigger issue here. There's no reason for that lane up the middle to be available.

GA2: Micklebot did a pretty good job covering this. I'd put most of it on Dzingel and Smith. It's pretty easy to understand what Ceci is trying to do here, he doesn't have a play infront of him, he's looking to reverse the puck to Brassard. Pacioretty recognized that and cut it off, Ceci did a pretty good job of neutralizing Pacioretty. Brassard gets in there but the puck get tangled up in some skates and Shaw comes in at the perfect time. Phaneuf did his job sealing off the post. Smith was in the proper spot and then kicks out for whatever reason and vacates his position. Dzingel... I don't even know.

Good:
Screen Shot 2017-12-01 at 4.17.45 AM.png

Bad:
Screen Shot 2017-12-01 at 4.18.02 AM.png

I'm not even a fan of Ceci but always find myself defending him on here because its seems like if something bad happens when he is on the Ceci he gets all the blame.
 
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Micklebot

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I think doing the table in excel and posting a screenshot is likely the easiest option.

I'm really not comfortable placing all the blame if any on Ceci on either goal. I had an issue with the recording, I'm only able to replay the first 30 minutes so i'm relying on short clips here.

GA1: Ceci reads the play well, he is towards to boards to provide support to the winger at the blue line if the puck goes up the boards. Harpur however is slow to identify where the puck is going and isn't able to get to the middle of the ice to cut off that lane. It's easy to blame the last man back for not picking up the man but there's a much bigger issue here. There's no reason for that lane up the middle to be available.

GA2: Micklebot did a pretty good job covering this. I'd put most of it on Dzingel and Smith. It's pretty easy to understand what Ceci is trying to do here, he doesn't have a play infront of him, he's looking to reverse the puck to Brassard. Pacioretty recognized that and cut it off, Ceci did a pretty good job of neutralizing Pacioretty. Brassard gets in there but the puck get tangled up in some skates and Shaw comes in at the perfect time. Phaneuf did his job sealing off the post. Smith was in the proper spot and then kicks out for whatever reason and vacates his position. Dzingel... I don't even know.

Good:
View attachment 85765

Bad:
View attachment 85767

I'm not even a fan of Ceci but always find myself defending him on here because its seems like if something bad happens when he is on the Ceci he gets all the blame.


Good catch on Smith kicking out; I was using clips from DTMTS and hadn't noticed that; it explains why Phaneuf took the post he did and stayed there. I have an issue with GSN saying Ceci coughed up the puck, he ate it when there were no options, and it squirted out of a puck battle between him an Pacioretty towards Brassard, who had inside position and should have had an advantage over Shaw imo at that loose puck. Losing it clean to Shaw was unacceptable there.

For what it's worth, Boucher laid blame for the goal on an un-named player going for a line change; I'd agree. That whole sequence is the result of forwards not supporting the breakout, or not being effective in their support. Smith, Dzingel, and Brassard all failed in their jobs, while the D you could argue just didn't outright win (Ceci tied a puck battle with Pacioretty with neither really getting an edge, and Phaneuf took his defensive position, but the play didn't come his way).
 
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God Says No

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For goal number 1, yeah you are right Harpur was out of position for the stretch pass. But it's still on Ceci to not let anyone behind him. He was the last guy, there is no excuse for letting a forward getting a breakaway. I would give 0.5 each.

I'm fine with Smith and Dzingel sharing the blame on goal number 2. But I still maintain that Ceci held the puck too long and let Pacioretty cause the turnover. If Ceci moved the puck quicker (not a pass, but actually moved to the corner for example) this could have been avoided. That's his Achilles heel. His processing time with the puck is too long. So it would be Smith, Dzingel and Ceci all 0.5.
 
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God Says No

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Game 24 (NYI)

GA1: Pyatt and Karlsson both just stand there. 0.5 each
GA2: PP goal, P9 is weak in front of the net. Can't give him a full point since it's on a PP. 0.5 Phaneuf.
GA3: Dumont misses the initial dump in, Karlsson is weak in front of the net. 0.5 to both.
GA4: Andy plays the puck, passes it to the NYI instead of leaving it for Chabot. 1.0 Andy
GA5: Unlucky stick break for Karlsson. I feel like Andy should have played it better. 0.5 to Andy? Thoughts?
 

Sens of Anarchy

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Game 24 (NYI)

GA1: Pyatt and Karlsson both just stand there. 0.5 each
GA2: PP goal, P9 is weak in front of the net. Can't give him a full point since it's on a PP. 0.5 Phaneuf.
GA3: Dumont misses the initial dump in, Karlsson is weak in front of the net. 0.5 to both.
GA4: Andy plays the puck, passes it to the NYI instead of leaving it for Chabot. 1.0 Andy
GA5: Unlucky stick break for Karlsson. I feel like Andy should have played it better. 0.5 to Andy? Thoughts?

GA1 - Pyatt was there first cutting off that area of the ice... Karlsson came in behind him, and found himself a redundant position when there was an isle right behind him who he should have covered.. That whole sequence was preceded by an untimely line change obviously precipitated by the bench .. the players never got sorted as they all rushed back into the D zone. I would not assign blame to Pyatt.

GA5 - unlucky break but .5 to Karlsson imo
 

God Says No

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GA1 - Pyatt was there first cutting off that area of the ice... Karlsson came in behind him, and found himself a redundant position when there was an isle right behind him who he should have covered.. That whole sequence was preceded by an untimely line change obviously precipitated by the bench .. the players never got sorted as they all rushed back into the D zone. I would not assign blame to Pyatt.

GA5 - unlucky break but .5 to Karlsson imo

GA1: It was Pyatt who caused the confusion though. He goes into Karlsson's spot, and leaves his man to score.
GA5: I don't know man. That's pretty rough blaming Karlsson on that one. I'd be willing put more blame on the stick or Andy, more so than Karl.
 

Karl Prime

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Karl has had horrid luck with sticks this season. Though I think his whole shot is off due to his foot. Can't seem to balance and get his weight behind it so he's probably hitting the stick on the ice earlier than usual.
 

Xspyrit

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Game 18 (PHX)
GA1: Unfortunate bounce. If Karlsson misses the puck it probably goes in the corner and nothing come out of it. I have a hard time blaming anyone, maybe Karlsson for letting Duclair have a breakaway. 0.5 Karlsson
GA2: 100% Condon. 1.0 for Condy
GA3: Ceci playing way to soft, Condon can't make the save. 0.5 each

GA3 : I dunno if you can really pin some blame on Ceci there. He was going to cut the angle and push Duclair to the outside but nice move by Duclair to come back on the inside, Ceci is able to turn around fast enough but Duclair still had a shot that the goalie should stop, even though it was from a close distance. A puck cannot go through you. Remember it was OT and 3v3, lot of space, players able to come with a lot of speed. I don't think you can expect the D-man to not allow on a shot on goal on that sequence, Duclair had a lot of time and space.

Game 19 (NYR):

GA1: Claesson loses the puck in the corner, Hoffman gets sucked in the middle, losing his positioning. 0.5 each.
GA2: Bobby doesn't tie up or do anything to Grabner, Paul loses positioning and lets Stall have all the time in the world. 0.5 each.
GA3: Even though it's an empty net goal, don't know why Phaneuf was trying to force the puck in the middle. 0.5 to him.

GA1 : Yeah Claesson loses the puck in the corner but there was instant pressure on him, he didn't have time to do much. When you look at that play, it was just a fortunate bounce as the puck got deflected right onto the stick of Hayes alone in the slot. Maybe Hoffman should have been closer to him, but it was an unpredictable play, somewhat lucky.

GA2 : I have a hard time blaming players on deflected goals. Obviously there was a miscommunication on that play and a break in coverage. I think all 3 forwards are equally to blame here, except maybe Thompson who realized Paul wasn't going to put pressure on the point, which created the confusion. Boro also created some confusion as he seemed like he was going forward. All 5 Sens players were in the picture, hard to pin some blame on only 2 of them, maybe 0.25 each (on 4) but in the end it was a deflection.

GA3 : yeah I don't know if it's right to blame on EN goals but as his teammates are stationary, Phaneuf didn't have many options. They are trying to come back in the game so they have to move around and create holes in the defensive coverage. Pageau didn't have inside position on the Rangers player. Phaneuf should have sent around the boards behind the net, bad decision, it was very Karlssonesque.

Game 20 (WSH):

GA1: Karlsson goes into no man's land and loses positioning. Claesson fails to tie up the stick of Vrana. 0.5 each
GA2: Ceci is either lazy or just fell asleep, gives Ovechkin a breakaway. 1.0 for Ceci
GA3: PP goal. It was a scramble and a broken play. Can't blame anyone.
GA4: Ceci is out of position, Andy lets in a good shot but from a bad angle. 0.5 each.

GA1 : so many things happening on that goal. Ryan blocked a shot and was hurting, he would have liked to get a change but Duchene doesn't recognize that and made a good pass to Ryan but he was not going for it as he was in pain. That created a turnover and players probably tired on the ice. Then a great pass by Oshie, nice stop by Andy but Caesson and Dzingel can't prevent Vrana to score on the rebound while Karlsson was covering nobody.

GA2 : this is a textbook example as to why Ceci is a scapegoat on this board. He received a hard hit along the walls just a few seconds before the breakaway, which probably took his breath away, then he doesn't recover fast enough, Backstrom and Chiasson with a pretty passing play and then Ceci just got beat by Ovechkin who is a fast and powerful skater. Ceci lazy or just felt asleep? Again, prefect example of the bias against Ceci on this board.

GA4 : ... Ceci was not out of position, he pinched and permuted with Dzingel who then got fooled too easily by Kutnetzov fishing for the puck. Good shot by Vrana but absolutely no reason to give up that goal by Andy, who didn't play the angles well. 1.0 to Anderson.

GA5 (not mentioned?) : if you put some blame on Phaneuf against the NYR EN goal, you have to put blame on Karlsson here who forced a shot and then Chiasson scored right away. Karlsson had better passing options but bad decision.

wow just did 3 games and the Ceci scapegoating is real. Of course people are not going to like him if that's how we "neutrally" analyze the plays... Hopefully he is traded fast enough before we destroy him, so we can watch him shine somewhere else (makes me think a bit about Zibanejad when he was with the Sens)
 

God Says No

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Yeah, thanks for the input but there are a couple of problems. One, it's way too late to comment on the games. Two, looks like I'm not the one has issues analyzing "neutrally".
 

God Says No

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Game 25 (WPG):

GA1: PP goal. Not sure why Oduya was so aggressive. Totally screwing up the coverage. 1.0 Oduya
GA2: Oduya and Ceci let Perrault behind them, and neither one ties him up or at least engage him. Brassard is late on the shot from the top. 0.5 each.
GA3: It was a mess, but I gotta say Bobby, Stone and Brassard all played that poorly. Bobby was all over the place, while Stone and Brassard just stood there and watched. 0.5 each.
GA4: 5 on 3. Can't blame anyone
GA5: PP goal. Can't really blame anyone. Maybe Condon for letting the shot through. Although he was screened a bit. I'll say no blame.
 
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