Gilbert Brule vs Andrei Kastitsyn

[Duff88]

I don't even really understand this part of it either. I saw every second of every shift he played for the Habs, and it wasn't "great"ness that I saw. He was invisible a couple games, he barely stepped on the ice in others, and in a few games that he did get a regular shift he was pretty decent, got off some nice shots. But all in all, we're still talking about 12 games, averaging 7 mins or so per game. Using the word "great" is asking for trouble. He did ok. Those wide open games against New Jersey and Pittsburgh were probably his best. Most of his recall was also during our most horrid stretch of the season when we got shelled in several games, and he got a bit of "mop-up" icetime in those games after the team had already been blown out of the water.

I've got to disagree. IMO, he did look very good in those games.

Let's look at it game-by-game:

December 1st against Buffalo - Played 1 shift, impossible to judge.
December 3rd against LA - Played 1 shift, impossible to judge.
December 13th against Phoenix - Scored the first goal on the night on his first career shot on his first shift of the game. Played a total of 9 shifts for 7:44 in the game and looked very good.
December 15th against Edmonton - Played only 4 shifts, getting one shot and finishing the night +1. Nothing much to say.
December 20th against Ottawa - Played only 2 shifts, impossible to judge.
January 3rd against Pittsburgh - He played a very good game that night. Played close to 13 minutes, earning an assist and a few good defensive play.
January 5th against New Jersey - His best game of the season. He scored a goal, had some good scoring chances and a few defensive gems in a little above 14 minutes of ice time. Arguably our best player that night.
January 7th against Ottawa - Nothing much to say, he wasn't quite as good as he was in every game since then. Played 8:30.
January 11th against Colorado - Solid game, nothing much to say again though. Played 8:34.
January 16th against Dallas - Don't remember very well but he was -1 and played 9:54.
January 21st against Vancouver - Another solid game. He was -1 and had a penalty, but he still played well and even got some PK time in his 13:48 of ice-time.
January 23rd against Carolina - Solid game, nothing much to say. Played 10:24.

I notice two things: He had limited icetime but still managed to impress, he never put his team in trouble defensively and even had a few very good defensive play, one particularly against New Jersey were he just saved a goal.

I'd say he was better than decent.

Finally, he does have a problem. He has the "Habs-prospect" syndrome! There is a ratio of 10:1 Habs fans on Hockey's Future and therefore, we hear a lot more about their prospect than about, let's say, the Minnesota Wild prospects. This brings people to think the Habs prospects are over-rated.

Something funny I noticed, is that whenever the Habs lose a prospect, their value suddenly skyrockets in the eyes of everybody who were dissing them before. Exemples? Josef Balej when he was a Rangers, Marcel Hossa immediately after his trade, Ron Hainsey recently.

 

[Heske_44]

Maybe if Kostitsyn learned English he would be able to talk to his teammates instead of trying to read their minds which is forcing him to try and do too much by himself.

Brule wins this round but Kostitsyn stock is going up not down, honestly not even debatable. Don't compare him to North American players and say he should have done this or that because no two players are identical.

If you don't think communication is an X factor then why was Ovechkin spending countless hours learning the language when he came over if it wasn't going to have the beenfit he thought it would?

I will say I have talked with a Habs scout and was told he has the skills to be as good as a Hossa (which was his comparison) but really lacks work ethic. So that is what is killing him, your skills don't go down, you don't learn to be an elite forward, but you do control your work ethic. That is Kostitsyn's achilles heel.

 

[Skyblaze]

I see Brule as somewhat of a Koivu with Sakic's wristshot.

Kostitsyn has Hossa potential, it remains to be seen whether it's Marian or Marcel.

Gilbert Brule is money, you just can't go wrong with him hence he wins this bout.

 

[RUSqueelin*]

I see Brule as somewhat of a Koivu with Sakic's wristshot.

Kostitsyn has Hossa potential, it remains to be seen whether it's Marian or Marcel.

Gilbert Brule is money, you just can't go wrong with him hence he wins this bout.

Brule loves to hit, is part of his game, and is not Koivu. How about a Doug Gilmour with a great shot. He's got he character. Smaller, gritty character who can score and lead. Ya, I'll take him anyday. I hope he stays healthy cause he'll be a treat to watch.

 

[GSK*]

Brule loves to hit, is part of his game, and is not Koivu. How about a Doug Gilmour with a great shot. He's got he character. Smaller, gritty character who can score and lead. Ya, I'll take him anyday. I hope he stays healthy cause he'll be a treat to watch.

OMG you compare the "best ever playoffs player " to you already injury prone Brule.

Focus Real !

 

[RUSqueelin*]

OMG you compare the "best ever playoffs player " to you already injury prone Brule.

Focus Real !

Pardon? Guy before was way off of player comparison in type of player. Brule is Doug Gilmour type player who likes to hit. Why is that so hard to believe? Who said anything about being injury prone? We are talking about best career senario. If you've actually watched the kid play - both in NHL/pre season and CHL/Memorial Cup last year you wouldn't make such a smart *** - make me feel better about myself - comment.

 

[Skyblaze]

When I said Koivu, I was talking about the Koivu from the past two seasons. He's added quite a good bit of grit to his play.

While comparing him to Gilmour isn't quite a long shot, i believe Brule has a better skillset than Gilmour had, and from what I've seen of his play, he just reminded me a lot of Koivu's play.

The only knock against the guy is that he doesn't really have the body to go with his style so I expect him to have some injury problems in his career.

 

[RUSqueelin*]

When I said Koivu, I was talking about the Koivu from the past two seasons. He's added quite a good bit of grit to his play.

While comparing him to Gilmour isn't quite a long shot, i believe Brule has a better skillset than Gilmour had, and from what I've seen of his play, he just reminded me a lot of Koivu's play.

The only knock against the guy is that he doesn't really have the body to go with his style so I expect him to have some injury problems in his career.

Allright, so a Koivu/Gilmour combo. Not bad stuff. I agree with the injury assessment. Many a small player have suffer the injury bug when playing bigger then they are ie R. Tockett, W. Clark.

 

[trentmccleary]

Hey, I don't necessarily disagree with your arguments, Kostitsyn's offensive production has been disapointing considering his draft status, I don't think anyone can deny that. However, I think your writing him off way too early, certain circumstances (like the Habs poor handling of his development - should of came over to the CHL 2 years ago) haven't helped him either. I think with the Bulldogs improving their talent level this year will go a long way in improving his offensive numbers, personally I couldn't careless how much he produces in the AHL, he's got great offensive tools which lead me to believe that if he rounds out the rest of his game and plays with players capable of exploiting his skills, he'll produce. It's his work ethic that has me worried beyond anything, we need to see a more sustained effort from him IMO.

I've seen you allude to the fact that Montreal's management thinks so 'highly' of him, that they signed Samsonov and traded for Johnson...I think that's a weak argument because Kostitsyn is only 21 yrs old, and given the fact they're a playoff contending team, why depend on a still raw 21yr old to play in your top 6 when you're already a team struggling to score goals.

My point is, he's a extremely talented kid IMO, i've seen him play live a couple of times and he's got everything you look for in a scoring winger, he just needs to harness all that talent and potential, and that's going to be the coaching staff's challenge with him. Time will tell I guess, I think this season will be extremely key for him, he's got to show a dramatic increase in production.

Perhaps it’s an Ottawa-centric POV, but I can’t comprehend “only 21â€. A “21 year old 1st rounder†and “not in the NHL†is pretty much a bust here. Only Chouinard has achieved both statuses with this organization and he was a bust. Our average has been 1 year and in the line up, only a few have ever made it to 2 full years (Eaves, Volchenkov and soon Lee) without earning an NHL job. So the fact that he’ll be going into his 4th year and will turn 22 without earning a full time job in the NHL … and that anybody still believes that he could be an NHL Star is fascinating to me.
IMO, the new CBA has created a situation in which teams want to have youngsters in the lineup by at least 20 yo, if possible… so that they can get the full 7 years of service before they really cash in. The Habs have had 2 years to work on his defensive play and acclimate him to the North American game… but the acquisitions of Samsonov and Johnson make it clear that they still don’t believe he’s ready and they don’t want him in the NHL this season. Why? … There’s little benefit to be gained by keeping an "elite" prospect in the minors beyond 20 and 2 years is a long time in development terms directly under the club’s supervision.

 

[Skyblaze]

Perhaps it’s an Ottawa-centric POV, but I can’t comprehend “only 21â€. A “21 year old 1st rounder†and “not in the NHL†is pretty much a bust here. Only Chouinard has achieved both statuses with this organization and he was a bust. Our average has been 1 year and in the line up, only a few have ever made it to 2 full years (Eaves, Volchenkov and soon Lee) without earning an NHL job. So the fact that he’ll be going into his 4th year and will turn 22 without earning a full time job in the NHL … and that anybody still believes that he could be an NHL Star is fascinating to me.
IMO, the new CBA has created a situation in which teams want to have youngsters in the lineup by at least 20 yo, if possible… so that they can get the full 7 years of service before they really cash in. The Habs have had 2 years to work on his defensive play and acclimate him to the North American game… but the acquisitions of Samsonov and Johnson make it clear that they still don’t believe he’s ready and they don’t want him in the NHL this season. Why? … There’s little benefit to be gained by keeping an "elite" prospect in the minors beyond 20 and 2 years is a long time in development terms directly under the club’s supervision.

The Habs just have a history of not playing their prospects until they have no other choice. It's not exactly a decision that I like but it doesn't always turn out bad either.

Look at Plekanec, who just pierced the line-up at 23. He used to be strictly a LW sniper with absolutely no defensive game and who could be knocked off the puck rather easily.

Now he's a center/LW that can carry the play pretty well and is good enough defensively that he's earned himself some time on the PK.

 

[Squeaky]

When I said Koivu, I was talking about the Koivu from the past two seasons. He's added quite a good bit of grit to his play.

I strongly disagree with that statement.

 

[Blind Gardien]

I've got to disagree. IMO, he did look very good in those games.

Let's look at it game-by-game:

December 1st against Buffalo - Played 1 shift, impossible to judge.
December 3rd against LA - Played 1 shift, impossible to judge.
December 13th against Phoenix - Scored the first goal on the night on his first career shot on his first shift of the game. Played a total of 9 shifts for 7:44 in the game and looked very good.
December 15th against Edmonton - Played only 4 shifts, getting one shot and finishing the night +1. Nothing much to say.
December 20th against Ottawa - Played only 2 shifts, impossible to judge.
January 3rd against Pittsburgh - He played a very good game that night. Played close to 13 minutes, earning an assist and a few good defensive play.
January 5th against New Jersey - His best game of the season. He scored a goal, had some good scoring chances and a few defensive gems in a little above 14 minutes of ice time. Arguably our best player that night.
January 7th against Ottawa - Nothing much to say, he wasn't quite as good as he was in every game since then. Played 8:30.
January 11th against Colorado - Solid game, nothing much to say again though. Played 8:34.
January 16th against Dallas - Don't remember very well but he was -1 and played 9:54.
January 21st against Vancouver - Another solid game. He was -1 and had a penalty, but he still played well and even got some PK time in his 13:48 of ice-time.
January 23rd against Carolina - Solid game, nothing much to say. Played 10:24.

I notice two things: He had limited icetime but still managed to impress, he never put his team in trouble defensively and even had a few very good defensive play, one particularly against New Jersey were he just saved a goal.

I'd say he was better than decent.

Finally, he does have a problem. He has the "Habs-prospect" syndrome! There is a ratio of 10:1 Habs fans on Hockey's Future and therefore, we hear a lot more about their prospect than about, let's say, the Minnesota Wild prospects. This brings people to think the Habs prospects are over-rated.

Something funny I noticed, is that whenever the Habs lose a prospect, their value suddenly skyrockets in the eyes of everybody who were dissing them before. Exemples? Josef Balej when he was a Rangers, Marcel Hossa immediately after his trade, Ron Hainsey recently.

I really don't see how any of this rates as disagreeing with what I posted. I objected to the use of the word "great" to describe his games. I don't see any of your game descriptions diverging from my own summary in any way whatsoever.

 

[417]

Perhaps it’s an Ottawa-centric POV, but I can’t comprehend “only 21â€. A “21 year old 1st rounder†and “not in the NHL†is pretty much a bust here. Only Chouinard has achieved both statuses with this organization and he was a bust. Our average has been 1 year and in the line up, only a few have ever made it to 2 full years (Eaves, Volchenkov and soon Lee) without earning an NHL job. So the fact that he’ll be going into his 4th year and will turn 22 without earning a full time job in the NHL … and that anybody still believes that he could be an NHL Star is fascinating to me.
IMO, the new CBA has created a situation in which teams want to have youngsters in the lineup by at least 20 yo, if possible… so that they can get the full 7 years of service before they really cash in. The Habs have had 2 years to work on his defensive play and acclimate him to the North American game… but the acquisitions of Samsonov and Johnson make it clear that they still don’t believe he’s ready and they don’t want him in the NHL this season. Why? … There’s little benefit to be gained by keeping an "elite" prospect in the minors beyond 20 and 2 years is a long time in development terms directly under the club’s supervision.

Sens and the Habs don't develop their players the same way.

Chris Higgins, Tomas Plekanec, Mike Komisarek, Alexander Perezhogin...all spent 2-3 years in the AHL before coming up full time to the NHL, Kostitsyn played 1 year in the AHL where he couldn't be called up because of the lockout, and spent another year in the AHL where he saw a dozen NHL games, so you're point about him not earning an NHL gig yet hold no water with respect to how the Habs have historically handled their prospects.

 

[LeMAD]

Can't we just let this stupid thread die? Kostitsyn will never be a first line/elite player...

The guy reminds me of myself as a hockey player: flashes of brillance, but generally useless and lost on the ice...

 

[Rattray]

Can't we just let this stupid thread die? Kostitsyn will never be a first line/elite player...

Yawn....

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

I've got to disagree. IMO, he did look very good in those games.

Let's look at it game-by-game:

December 1st against Buffalo - Played 1 shift, impossible to judge.
December 3rd against LA - Played 1 shift, impossible to judge.
December 13th against Phoenix - Scored the first goal on the night on his first career shot on his first shift of the game. Played a total of 9 shifts for 7:44 in the game and looked very good.
December 15th against Edmonton - Played only 4 shifts, getting one shot and finishing the night +1. Nothing much to say.
December 20th against Ottawa - Played only 2 shifts, impossible to judge.
January 3rd against Pittsburgh - He played a very good game that night. Played close to 13 minutes, earning an assist and a few good defensive play.
January 5th against New Jersey - His best game of the season. He scored a goal, had some good scoring chances and a few defensive gems in a little above 14 minutes of ice time. Arguably our best player that night.
January 7th against Ottawa - Nothing much to say, he wasn't quite as good as he was in every game since then. Played 8:30.
January 11th against Colorado - Solid game, nothing much to say again though. Played 8:34.
January 16th against Dallas - Don't remember very well but he was -1 and played 9:54.
January 21st against Vancouver - Another solid game. He was -1 and had a penalty, but he still played well and even got some PK time in his 13:48 of ice-time.
January 23rd against Carolina - Solid game, nothing much to say. Played 10:24.

I notice two things: He had limited icetime but still managed to impress, he never put his team in trouble defensively and even had a few very good defensive play, one particularly against New Jersey were he just saved a goal.

I'd say he was better than decent.

1) IMO it is incredibly inappropriate to use Kostitsyn's scant few NHL as an indication as to his overall progress. I mean, Jason Ward showed more at the AHL level than Kostitsyn.

2) Even if it wasn't, Brule showed far more in his stint as an 18-year old than Kostitsyn did at 20.

I think there are a lot of Habs fans twisting reality to somehow justify Gainey's catastrophic blunder of taking Price ahead of Brule. Or Kostitsyn ahead of Carter. Pick your screwup.

 

[Habsfan18]

1) IMO it is incredibly inappropriate to use Kostitsyn's scant few NHL as an indication as to his overall progress. I mean, Jason Ward showed more at the AHL level than Kostitsyn.

2) Even if it wasn't, Brule showed far more in his stint as an 18-year old than Kostitsyn did at 20.

I think there are a lot of Habs fans twisting reality to somehow justify Gainey's catastrophic blunder of taking Price ahead of Brule. Or Kostitsyn ahead of Carter. Pick your screwup.

How about we let them be regulars in the NHL before deciding which was the better pick?

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

How about we let them be regulars in the NHL before deciding which was the better pick?

Because you don't need to? They're in different stratospheres.

 

[Buffalo87]

Because you don't need to? They're in different stratospheres.

There's no way to know that yet.

 

[Habsfan18]

There's no way to know that yet.

exactly.

Neither of them are NHL'ers yet.

If Brule becomes a 40 goal scorer, then so be it. But if Price becomes our future franchise goalie that carries us in the playoffs..Montreal then made the better choice. But there is no way of knowing yet.

 

[dru]

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

There's no way to know that yet.

Of course there is. They both played a large number of WHL games last season. It's very easy to compare them.

 

[Habsfan18]

Of course there is. They both played a large number of WHL games last season. It's very easy to compare them.

Carey Price played on a horrible Tri-City team.

Face it, you can't tell who was the better pick until they have both played significant time in the NHL.

 

[417]

Of course there is. They both played a large number of WHL games last season. It's very easy to compare them.

One's a goalie, the other a forward...apples and oranges

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

One's a goalie, the other a forward...apples and oranges

Totally. Jarome Iginla vs Mathieu Garon. Apples and oranges.