German Football Part III

[Nalens Oga]

Ancelotti was only a good fit for Bayern for as long as the squad was really good. I've said before that he gets a great team to perform great and a good team to perform good but he's not going to get a good team to perform great. He leaves it up to the players and his results depend on their level of talent.

The gap between Bayern and BVB as well as a few other Bundesliga clubs is smaller than in the last couple years so they obviously need a better coach to eke out results when talent alone isn't enough to win the game. But if they expect the manager to be beating the likes of PSG or Real or Man City though then they're in for a surprise, Hoeness can go on and on about how they won't spend like those other clubs but then forget about winning the CL because you're not in the same league as them anymore. Tuchel should probably be fine for one year in terms of winning the Bundesliga, doesn't seem like a long-term solution though.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Tuchel isn't a long-term solution? Uhh, I've read it all now.

Jogi Löw would be fun.

Klinsmann would be more fun

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Klinsmann would be more fun

Way too good, Bayern might struggle to qualify for Europe with Klinsmann.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Way too good, Bayern might struggle to qualify for Europe with Klinsmann.

A man can dream. I was hoping Ancelotti would stay the whole year. Tuchel at Bayern though... no thanks.

 

[Bon Esprit]

According to sport1 1. FC Köln will sign Claudio Pizzaro today. Welcome back, Pizza. I'm not sure if a 38yo player helps Cologne, but whatever. I always liked Pizza.

 

[Bon Esprit]

A man can dream. I was hoping Ancelotti would stay the whole year. Tuchel at Bayern though... no thanks.

Rummenigge, Hoeneß AND Tuchel together will be fun to watch as a neutral.

 

[Vipers31]

Rummenigge, Hoeneß AND Tuchel together will be fun to watch as a neutral.

These things are almost impossible to project; chemistry can happen between the oddest people. Carlo was the ultimate gentleman, and we see how that worked out. Meanwhile, Pep was said to be a handful to handle, and the front office adored him. (Maybe Uli's absence helped with that, tbf.)

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Italian managers and the Bundesliga have never really worked out together. I think there's a bit of a mentality gap.

But that said, Ancelotti was not given a CL-winning squad to work with IMO. Maybe Bayern should reflect on their transfer approach as well if they get walloped by PSG. The reality is that some years back (maybe 2011 ish) Bayern decided to 'step up' their game and start spending like other super powers.

But super power spending has of course escalated even more since then. There is only one CL trophy to play for and there's a few teams out there who don't care how much they need to spend to get it; then there's a few more teams who do care but have consciously decided to go along with it out of necessity. Bayern still seems to balk at that game. And of course, in spite of Bayern's considerable financial might, they do not have an oligarch or the sovereign wealth fund of a sheikhdom behind them and their TV revenues do not match those of the Premier League elite or RM/Barca.

Perhaps it's that realization which drives them toward 'system coaches' like Tuchel who promise to do more with less rather than 'country club coaches' like Ancelotti who will do something with the elite squad you hand him but hasn't shown the ability to develop a team.

 

[Bon Esprit]

It's not only the managers (Trappatoni for example). I don't remember any high end Italian player who fit in German mentality and stuff. Only Luca Toni had success. It seems way better the other way around with German players in Italy (Brehme, Effenberg, Loddar and others). Dutch and French players worked way better.

 

[Albatros]

Barzagli won the title in Wolfsburg playing full minutes all season.

 

[LemmyUlanov55]

It's not only the managers (Trappatoni for example). I don't remember any high end Italian player who fit in German mentality and stuff. Only Luca Toni had success. It seems way better the other way around with German players in Italy (Brehme, Effenberg, Loddar and others). Dutch and French players worked way better.

Well, Andreas Barzagli won the Bundesliga with WOB, but he's the only successful italian player (beside Luca Toni) I was able to come up with right away. haha.

EDIT: Too slow..

 

[Bon Esprit]

You both pulled out a player who didn't fail like Immobile. That's great.

 

[Deficient Mode]

You both pulled out a player who didn't fail like Immobile. That's great.

Immobile really isn't good. I don't understand how he continues to score goals for Torino. I'd say he's more a case of failed scouting than failing in Germany. Though it's true he felt homesick and estranged from his family in Germany.

 

[Nalens Oga]

^ Your signature isn't big enough.

I don't really think you can be judging Italian players failing in Germany or vice-versa, sample size is generally too small.

Sane and Augustinsson might both be injured so Hamburg might actually have another win or at least a chance at scoring against Werder. Signing Pizarro...Koln are pathetic, hopefully RB dominates them on Sunday (though Werner may also not be starting according to coach).

 

[cgf]

Italian managers and the Bundesliga have never really worked out together. I think there's a bit of a mentality gap.

But that said, Ancelotti was not given a CL-winning squad to work with IMO. Maybe Bayern should reflect on their transfer approach as well if they get walloped by PSG. The reality is that some years back (maybe 2011 ish) Bayern decided to 'step up' their game and start spending like other super powers.

But super power spending has of course escalated even more since then. There is only one CL trophy to play for and there's a few teams out there who don't care how much they need to spend to get it; then there's a few more teams who do care but have consciously decided to go along with it out of necessity. Bayern still seems to balk at that game. And of course, in spite of Bayern's considerable financial might, they do not have an oligarch or the sovereign wealth fund of a sheikhdom behind them and their TV revenues do not match those of the Premier League elite or RM/Barca.

Perhaps it's that realization which drives them toward 'system coaches' like Tuchel who promise to do more with less rather than 'country club coaches' like Ancelotti who will do something with the elite squad you hand him but hasn't shown the ability to develop a team.

Bayern have a world class backline, GK & striker; with a ton of midfield talent and their attack still has Robben, Müller & Hamez to surround Lewy. The roster by no way excuses how much worse Ancelotti got them to play then Pep did. Of course Carlo isn't anywhere near as good as Pep, but the drop off has still been massive.

 

[Albatros]

Ancelotti can be blamed for losing the room, but not for the failed transfer policy. It might have been necessary to sack him, but the current situation is not all on him.

 

[cgf]

Ancelotti can be blamed for losing the room, but not for the failed transfer policy. It might have been necessary to sack him, but the current situation is not all on him.

Failed transfer policy? They added Hummels, Hamez, Tolisso, Rudy & Sule to the team Pep had dominating

 

[Albatros]

Hummels is the only one seriously adding quality and he's ultimately from the own juniors. The rest aren't anywhere near enough to compensate for the loss of the likes of Lahm and Alonso and the expiry dates of Ribéry and Robben.

 

[cgf]

That's on carlo for failing to utilize the talent he was given, but that roster is more stacked now than it was in Pep's final season.

 

[Deficient Mode]

^ Your signature isn't big enough.

Thanks for the feedback. I will try to make it bigger and more obnoxious.

Hummels is the only one seriously adding quality and he's ultimately from the own juniors. The rest aren't anywhere near enough to compensate for the loss of the likes of Lahm and Alonso and the expiry dates of Ribéry and Robben.

Eh, I think they have more than covered for Alonso and did well to cover for Lahm. More like Alonso didn't do well to replace Kroos. They have done a poor job of replacing Ribery and Robben, though. That has been their biggest failure, and perhaps the biggest reason for their decline since the treble season. They tried to look for discounts on unwanted world class players like James and talented but not super elite players like Coman and Costa. I don't know if they will get lucky enough to find another Ribery and Robben in Madrid's next generation of unwanted players.

 

[Albatros]

No one can realistically replace Kroos 1:1 on the pitch anyway, but Alonso was an excellent choice because of his second to none leadership qualities. I would say that the combined departure of him and Lahm is the key reason for the return of FC Hollywood.

 

[cgf]

...you realize that Alonso was Bayern's biggest liability the past two seasons...right?

 

[Deficient Mode]

No one can realistically replace Kroos 1:1 on the pitch anyway, but Alonso was an excellent choice because of his second to none leadership qualities. I would say that the combined departure of him and Lahm is the key reason for the return of FC Hollywood.

I'd say Rudy and Weigl or even Kimmich would have been far better Kroos replacements than Alonso. It was really bad to buy Alonso for cheap but think Kroos was dispensable, as if they were interchangeable for the simple reason that they're both very good at making long passes.

 

[cgf]

There's no reason for Carlo not to have a monstrous team if he organized them better in possession:

Lewandowski
James/Müller
James/Alaba - Vidal - Thiago - Robben
Kimmich/Rudy
Alaba/Mats - Boateng - Mats/Kimmich
Neuer
-------------------------------------
Lewy - Müller
James
Alaba - Thiago - Vidal - Robben
Hummels - Boateng - Kimmich
Neuer

Ribery, Coman, Bernat, Tolisso, Rudy, Javi, Süle, Früchtl​

 

[Albatros]

...you realize that Alonso was Bayern's biggest liability the past two seasons...right?

No. I never understood the amount of hate he received. At most he was at times used in a wrong role minding his age and mobility.