GDT: Game 26: Avalanche vs Sabres | December 5, 2017 | 7 PM MT | Barbie Is Out

[Raucherhusten]

First of all i think your guys are dead wrong by saying Jost isn't NHL ready. The main reason he hasn't shine yet is that he was barely healthy pretty much the whole season. He needs to have a stint of 10-15 healthy games with decent linemates like JT/Kerfoot - then we can start judging him.

Second of all i have no idea why a lot of you are disappointed with Miko; this dude is playing his second NHL season and you guys expect him to carry a line or even the team? No way he is capable of doing that just yet - ask again in 2 years or so. MacKinnon needed 5 years to finally break out - just in case you forgot.

You can't expect us to be even close to a Playoff spot. This team is still young and developing, our D is still a patchwork (last night we iced 3,5 rookies), our goalies are not good enough to bail us out and the Central is simply a deadly Div this season. Maybe some of you should make peace with the fact that we will have stretches of disappointment (like this homestand) and stretches of pur joy as well cause there will be games when they are able to put it all together (we already had a bunch of them).

Btw, it's just great to hear that some of you are on the "we need a better coach AND a better GM" bandwagon again just because the Avs had a few rough outings in a row. Hilarious!

 

[Murzu]

I think we are at the stage where we need a better coach - no more to tanking for draft picks but developing our young players and getting more victories. We need a winning mentality to the room. I'm totally fine if we end up bottom five in the standings as long as players take steps forward and in the meantime we still manage to get respectable amount of points (Something like 70-80). That's a big step forward compared to last year.

Of course it's not over yet for this season. This game was supposed to be a win but it is what it is. A lot more hockey left to be played. Hopefully this loss wakes up the room and having Landy back we get some secondary scoring (I hope that they don't put him with MacK and Rants).

 

[henchman21]

It is quite hilarious that people think we don't need a better coach after nearly a season and a half of results. Bednar is just a bad coach.

Jost clearly isn't NHL ready and if he isn't fully healthy... he shouldn't be playing. He needs a bit to get into game shape, but we are at 9 games since he has been back. That excuse is running thin. Even last year, it was pretty clear to me that the kid didn't have NHL wheels yet. They should come, but that is going to hold him back until they are there. Forcing a square peg into a round hole isn't going to help Jost. If people don't want him in the AHL, then send him to the WHL. The kid needs more time and his development is too important to screw up.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

It is quite hilarious that people think we don't need a better coach after nearly a season and a half of results. Bednar is just a bad coach.

Jost clearly isn't NHL ready and if he isn't fully healthy... he shouldn't be playing. He needs a bit to get into game shape, but we are at 9 games since he has been back. That excuse is running thin. Even last year, it was pretty clear to me that the kid didn't have NHL wheels yet. They should come, but that is going to hold him back until they are there. Forcing a square peg into a round hole isn't going to help Jost. If people don't want him in the AHL, then send him to the WHL. The kid needs more time and his development is too important to screw up.

Dat Jost/Henry magic

But honestly I think the WHL is a poor option. Great league and all, but Jost is fortunate enough to be able to play in the perfect "tweener" league as a teenager which is a gift for development. Send him to San Antonio and let him learn how to play a pro game. He can play against men but most importantly, become better at hockey. That in my opinion is his biggest issue. He just isn't good enough yet.

 

[Piestany88]

Dat Jost/Henry magic

I'd like to see that actually

 

[henchman21]

Dat Jost/Henry magic

But honestly I think the WHL is a poor option. Great league and all, but Jost is fortunate enough to be able to play in the perfect "tweener" league as a teenager which is a gift for development. Send him to San Antonio and let him learn how to play a pro game.

But the injuries!!!!!!!!!

(I fully agree with you, but if people are truly afraid of that... the WHL is also a legit option)

 

[21]

I think we are at the stage where we need a better coach - no more to tanking for draft picks but developing our young players and getting more victories. We need a winning mentality to the room. I'm totally fine if we end up bottom five in the standings as long as players take steps forward and in the meantime we still manage to get respectable amount of points (Something like 70-80). That's a big step forward compared to last year.

Of course it's not over yet for this season. This game was supposed to be a win but it is what it is. A lot more hockey left to be played. Hopefully this loss wakes up the room and having Landy back we get some secondary scoring (I hope that they don't put him with MacK and Rants).

Why change a winning concept?

 

[henchman21]

Landy-MacK-Rants should go right back together. That is a legit 1st line and it is capable of carrying a team. They'd give a near guaranteed 1+ goal per game (they nearly produced 2 a game but that likely isn't sustainable) where the other lines and special teams have to combine for 1-2 to put the team in a spot where a win should be possible.

I use these graphs quite a bit here, but look at that production jump when LMR is together:

 

[Cousin Eddie]

But the injuries!!!!!!!!!

(I fully agree with you, but if people are truly afraid of that... the WHL is also a legit option)

People are far more reckless in junior than they are in the AHL. Probably more reckless in the NHL too. I know the injury thing in the AHL is sarcasm on your part and you're not one of the ones who suggest it, but I just like pointing that out.

The AHL is a league of people who are close to the NHL. Most of the players are undersized, timid, skill players (Grimaldi/Agozino for example). It's a league with far less physicality than the NHL or junior. There are still a few heros who will play a reckless game, but not very many. In junior you have a bunch of losers who are going nowhere, taking needles since they know they'll never be tested for PED's as they wont play high level hockey, and just want to make a name for themselves any way they possibly can to gain more instagram followers.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

First of all i think your guys are dead wrong by saying Jost isn't NHL ready. The main reason he hasn't shine yet is that he was barely healthy pretty much the whole season. He needs to have a stint of 10-15 healthy games with decent linemates like JT/Kerfoot - then we can start judging him.

Second of all i have no idea why a lot of you are disappointed with Miko; this dude is playing his second NHL season and you guys expect him to carry a line or even the team? No way he is capable of doing that just yet - ask again in 2 years or so. MacKinnon needed 5 years to finally break out - just in case you forgot.

You can't expect us to be even close to a Playoff spot. This team is still young and developing, our D is still a patchwork (last night we iced 3,5 rookies), our goalies are not good enough to bail us out and the Central is simply a deadly Div this season. Maybe some of you should make peace with the fact that we will have stretches of disappointment (like this homestand) and stretches of pur joy as well cause there will be games when they are able to put it all together (we already had a bunch of them).

Btw, it's just great to hear that some of you are on the "we need a better coach AND a better GM" bandwagon again just because the Avs had a few rough outings in a row. Hilarious!

Nobody should have ever got off that bandwagon.

It's hilarious that people jumped off because we have been slightly above .500 and we didn't get f***ed over when trading Duchene.

 

[henchman21]

So before I start on this... I like Kerfoot and I love that he is producing. His drive to get into the dirty areas was something sorely needed on this team and I think he will be a solid player going forward for this team. That said, his production is a bit of a mirage.

-He is a very good PP player and while he makes some mistakes and low percentage plays that might cost the Avs from time to time... he's still good there. That said 50% of his points have been on the PP (last night's 2 were not earned by anybody but MacK). His ES (or 6v5) production is still solid, but a more realistic 10. This PP production also applies to Rants to a very large (and greater) degree.

-He is a great player at picking up 'garbage' points. The Nov 18th game against the Preds, Kerfoot picked up 2 points in the final 5 minutes after being down 5-0. November 5th, he scored 2 goals in the last 30s after the Isles were up 6-2. 4 ES points that came in pure garbage time. Adjusting that to 6 ES points that had a real impact, seems about right for his level of play throughout the year. Some lucky bounces and garbage points will happen from time to time, just not to the rate of it being 40% of the ES total.

-He is shooting at a 28% clip... even the all time great Tanguay only had a 18% clip. I believe that Kerfoot will have a high percentage based on how he plays, but it will fall to around 15-18 over time.

These three things really point to him having a drop off in production IMO. It isn't going to fall off a cliff or anything, but it will normalize. As long as he stays on the top PP unit, I figure that production will mostly stay the same. Mostly based on Rants and MacK being good PP players. He should be good for 25-30 PP points this season at that rate. ES I think the 6 is closer to reality for him... maybe 7 give the normal bounces players get from time to time. So more around a 15-20 point sort of rate ES. This points to a 40-50 point sort of production (very, very solid 2nd line numbers IMO... so I see this as encouraging actually). For his goals... 28% isn't going to stay sustainable, and he doesn't shoot the puck a ton. Given 80-85 shots we should probably expect around 15-18 goals. Given his production so far, and assuming he falls back around where I think he should be producing... I think we see a ~55 point season out of him barring injury. That is damn good for a rookie in this league, and guessing that he has some improvement in his play over the next couple years... he can probably be a 55 point player going forward, even if he is more of a PP whiz than a true 2nd liner. That is a damn good 'free' addition.

 

[Murzu]

Why change a winning concept?

To spread the scoring. But obviously they played well together before so if putting them back together gives us 1-2 pretty much guaranteed goals per night by all means do it.

 

[Freudian]

No doubt in my mind that RoR 100% knew EJ would throw himself on the ice and schooled him. It's bad to be predictable. It's even worse when your predictable move takes you completely out of the play.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

I think we are at the stage where we need a better coach - no more to tanking for draft picks but developing our young players and getting more victories. We need a winning mentality to the room. I'm totally fine if we end up bottom five in the standings as long as players take steps forward and in the meantime we still manage to get respectable amount of points (Something like 70-80). That's a big step forward compared to last year.

Of course it's not over yet for this season. This game was supposed to be a win but it is what it is. A lot more hockey left to be played. Hopefully this loss wakes up the room and having Landy back we get some secondary scoring (I hope that they don't put him with MacK and Rants).

Finally someone who is making sense. Bednar is a joke. I was a player at a decent level and a coach after. This guy seems lost whenever he runs into a superior mind and doesnt adjust in time. Our players are fine and more young guns are on their way. But it doesnt matter what is on the ice if the chessmaster doesnt know how to counter his oppenent.

 

[AvalancheFan19]

EJ going down there was awful lol. He does that far too often, as we all know.

 

[Goulet17]

EJ going down there was awful lol. He does that far too often, as we all know.

I recall one instance early this season where it worked perfectly, but yes, it can often be an issue. If he does not time it perfectly, or if he is dealing with a skilled, high IQ player with the puck, it can be problematic.

Interestingly, I noticed that Zadorov pulled the maneuver last night to great success later (although it was close).

 

[klozge]

First of all i think your guys are dead wrong by saying Jost isn't NHL ready. The main reason he hasn't shine yet is that he was barely healthy pretty much the whole season. He needs to have a stint of 10-15 healthy games with decent linemates like JT/Kerfoot - then we can start judging him.

Second of all i have no idea why a lot of you are disappointed with Miko; this dude is playing his second NHL season and you guys expect him to carry a line or even the team? No way he is capable of doing that just yet - ask again in 2 years or so. MacKinnon needed 5 years to finally break out - just in case you forgot.

You can't expect us to be even close to a Playoff spot. This team is still young and developing, our D is still a patchwork (last night we iced 3,5 rookies), our goalies are not good enough to bail us out and the Central is simply a deadly Div this season. Maybe some of you should make peace with the fact that we will have stretches of disappointment (like this homestand) and stretches of pur joy as well cause there will be games when they are able to put it all together (we already had a bunch of them).

Btw, it's just great to hear that some of you are on the "we need a better coach AND a better GM" bandwagon again just because the Avs had a few rough outings in a row. Hilarious!

While I agree with you on Jost I'm one of the people who are currently disappointed with Rantanen. The reason why I'm hoping for Rantanen to do more is that he has already shown much more this season. He can be a dominant physical player, especially for his age, but right now he's lacking some energy in his game imo. It's his 2nd season, though, so it's not a big deal.

 

[Avaholic]

any reason Siemens minutes were to ridiculously miniscule?

 

[Papa Francouz]

any reason Siemens minutes were to ridiculously miniscule?

Probably because he’s Duncan Siemens.

 

[Raucherhusten]

Probably because he’s Duncan Siemens.

Siemens was fine in his 48sec of ice time yesterday.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

No doubt in my mind that RoR 100% knew EJ would throw himself on the ice and schooled him. It's bad to be predictable. It's even worse when your predictable move takes you completely out of the play.

I said exactly this to my fiancé after the goal last night. She looked at me like I was an idiot for interrupting her instagram time, but I still told her.

 

[S E P H]

No doubt in my mind that RoR 100% knew EJ would throw himself on the ice and schooled him. It's bad to be predictable. It's even worse when your predictable move takes you completely out of the play.

As we speak, EJ is still sliding towards Antarctica. What a stupid play.

Yesterdays game clearly showed we're missing...

- A point shot presence from the blueline.
- Better NHL depth players, I'm so done with Yakupov.
- A true sniper, so many glass shots.
- More IQ.

 

[Raucherhusten]

Yesterdays game clearly showed we're missing...

- A point shot presence from the blueline. (Hopefully Girard can develop into that)
- Better NHL depth players, I'm so done with Yakupov. (add Ghetto and Nieto to that list)
- A true sniper, so many glass shots. (WORD!)
- More IQ. (No idea what you mean bra )

 

[The Kingslayer]

Second of all i have no idea why a lot of you are disappointed with Miko; this dude is playing his second NHL season and you guys expect him to carry a line or even the team? No way he is capable of doing that just yet - ask again in 2 years or so. MacKinnon needed 5 years to finally break out - just in case you forgot.

The thing that's bothered me about Mikko thus far is we know hes capable of a lot more especially 5 on 5. A lot of times it really does look like hes going through the motions and not getting engaged. I thought he looked a lot better last night in terms of getting engaged but we need that consistency from him as a top line player. Its nice hes still able to pick up points while not being at his best but I know he can be a lot better. I haven't watched many games this season where I said damn was Mikko good tonight.

 

[Raucherhusten]

The thing that's bothered me about Mikko thus far is we know hes capable of a lot more especially 5 on 5. A lot of times it really does look like hes going through the motions and not getting engaged. I thought he looked a lot better last night in terms of getting engaged but we need that consistency from him as a top line player. Its nice hes still able to pick up points while not being at his best but I know he can be a lot better. I haven't watched many games this season where I said damn was Mikko good tonight.

Yeah, your not wrong. Specially his 5on5 production is a little underwhelming. But he is just 21 years old in his second NHL season. He will figure it out eventually - at least i hope so.
Maybe it isn't such a bad idea to get him away from Mac atm. Nate is so dominant that he needs the puck on his stick as much as possible - not much room to shine for Miko.