GDT: Game 26: Avalanche vs Sabres | December 5, 2017 | 7 PM MT | Barbie Is Out

[Freudian]

Rantanen shows flashes what he can be, when he uses his frame along the boards and just take the puck. But he has this tendency to become a bit passive in his puck pursuit.

I think he would benefit from having a coach push him out of his comfort zone. He has all the tools. The size, the hands, the hockey IQ.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Yeah, your not wrong. Specially his 5on5 production is a little underwhelming. But he is just 21 years old in his second NHL season. He will figure it out eventually - at least i hope so.
Maybe it isn't such a bad idea to get him away from Mac atm. Nate is so dominant that he needs the puck on his stick as much as possible - not much room to shine for Miko.

Thats true but if you take Mikko off that line whose gonna get it to Nathan lol Landy doesn't have the same passing skills Mikko does. I get what you mean though. Mikko does seem a bit mesmerized by Mackinnon at the moment and I don't blame him as Macks been on fire the last month. I don't want him to fall into that trap of being 'ok' with being second best to Nathan. I never got the feeling that Forsberg ever felt like he was second best to Sakic. I never felt that ROR felt like he was second best to Duchene. In the cases of Foppa and ROR it always felt to me like they tried to be the best player on their line regardless of who was on their line and that's what I want from Mikko even if he might never be as good as Nathan. Healthy competition is hardly a bad thing

 

[Iceberg]

Why would Forsberg feel like second best to anyone?

 

[Bender]

First of all i think your guys are dead wrong by saying Jost isn't NHL ready. The main reason he hasn't shine yet is that he was barely healthy pretty much the whole season. He needs to have a stint of 10-15 healthy games with decent linemates like JT/Kerfoot - then we can start judging him.

Second of all i have no idea why a lot of you are disappointed with Miko; this dude is playing his second NHL season and you guys expect him to carry a line or even the team? No way he is capable of doing that just yet - ask again in 2 years or so. MacKinnon needed 5 years to finally break out - just in case you forgot.

You can't expect us to be even close to a Playoff spot. This team is still young and developing, our D is still a patchwork (last night we iced 3,5 rookies), our goalies are not good enough to bail us out and the Central is simply a deadly Div this season. Maybe some of you should make peace with the fact that we will have stretches of disappointment (like this homestand) and stretches of pur joy as well cause there will be games when they are able to put it all together (we already had a bunch of them).

Btw, it's just great to hear that some of you are on the "we need a better coach AND a better GM" bandwagon again just because the Avs had a few rough outings in a row. Hilarious!

I'm one of Jost's biggest fans but even I will admit that a longer stint down in the AHL probably wouldn't hurt him at all. It worked pretty well with Rantanen to get him ready for the NHL. He's played 10 games so far playing an average of 13:53 per game. I'm not saying leave him down all year but 3-4 weeks could help him a lot.

As for #96, I think you're missing the point that most people are trying to make. It's nice that he's producing on the top line but a lot of it is just handing the puck off to Mack or getting the feed from Mack at this point. Last season, he was creating more and while his production wasn't as good as this year....overall, his game was better (my opinion). I've also noticed a few bad habits he's also picked up...working along the boards and I'm sure I'm not the only one to have seen it. He'll try to lift a stick or lunge for a puck instead of stopping and working to get possession. We certainly weren't seeing a lot of that last season.

As for Bednar, you can choose to believe whatever you want. I don't think he's particularly a good coach. A lot of questionable decisions last season and also again this season.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Why would Forsberg feel like second best to anyone?

He could have easily to Sakic but he never played like that and that's my point. It always felt like those two elevated each other. Neither guy wanted to play second fiddle to the other guy and it created a healthy rivalry between the two and brought us two cups.

 

[The Kingslayer]

I'm one of Jost's biggest fans but even I will admit that a longer stint down in the AHL probably wouldn't hurt him at all. It worked pretty well with Rantanen to get him ready for the NHL. He's played 10 games so far playing an average of 13:53 per game. I'm not saying leave him down all year but 3-4 weeks could help him a lot.

As for #96, I think you're missing the point that most people are trying to make. It's nice that he's producing on the top line but a lot of it is just handing the puck off to Mack or getting the feed from Mack at this point. Last season, he was creating more and while his production wasn't as good as this year....overall, his game was better (my opinion). I've also noticed a few bad habits he's also picked up...working along the boards and I'm sure I'm not the only one to have seen it. He'll try to lift a stick or lunge for a puck instead of stopping and working to get possession. We certainly weren't seeing a lot of that last season.

As for Bednar, you can choose to believe whatever you want. I don't think he's particularly a good coach. A lot of questionable decisions last season and also again this season.

Bingo.

 

[Rumplesnipeskin]

Did we get any further explanation on how that second goal of BUF’s was considered onsides?

Definitely a game changing call, and it looked pretty clear to me that the puck made it out of the zone

 

[Iceberg]

He could have easily to Sakic but he never played like that and that's my point. It always felt like those two elevated each other. Neither guy wanted to play second fiddle to the other guy and it created a healthy rivalry between the two and brought us two cups.

Ok, fair enough, because for a moment there i thought you were implying Sakic was better than Forsberg.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Ok, fair enough, because for a moment there i thought you were implying Sakic was better than Forsberg.

I would never lol My foppa love is very irrational.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Did we get any further explanation on how that second goal of BUF’s was considered onsides?

Definitely a game changing call, and it looked pretty clear to me that the puck made it out of the zone

Puck making it out of the zone wasn't even the part that came into question, so not sure why that would have an impact on the call.


The question on the play was whether or not the Sabres forwards touched up before re-entering the zone. And I thought the evidence was pretty conclusive that they did.


NHL has screwed the Avs on a number of calls this year, last night was not one of them. It was a good goal no question.

 

[Raucherhusten]

I'm one of Jost's biggest fans but even I will admit that a longer stint down in the AHL probably wouldn't hurt him at all. It worked pretty well with Rantanen to get him ready for the NHL. He's played 10 games so far playing an average of 13:53 per game. I'm not saying leave him down all year but 3-4 weeks could help him a lot.

As for #96, I think you're missing the point that most people are trying to make. It's nice that he's producing on the top line but a lot of it is just handing the puck off to Mack or getting the feed from Mack at this point. Last season, he was creating more and while his production wasn't as good as this year....overall, his game was better (my opinion). I've also noticed a few bad habits he's also picked up...working along the boards and I'm sure I'm not the only one to have seen it. He'll try to lift a stick or lunge for a puck instead of stopping and working to get possession. We certainly weren't seeing a lot of that last season.

As for Bednar, you can choose to believe whatever you want. I don't think he's particularly a good coach. A lot of questionable decisions last season and also again this season.

You made some good points - can't argue with most of them and don't want to argue with the rest.

I think what's bothering me the most is the lack of patience some of you have. We are still talking about a 19 year old rookie who "has to be sent down" after a couple of Meh games ignoring the fact that he was in and out of the lineup because of injuries and wasn't able to develop any kind of chemistry or rythem because of that AND a 21 year old softmore (i guess) who is right now living in the shadow of an all mighty Teammate and still getting points on the board. Both have their flaws for sure - and even i have to admit that at least sometimes Mikkos game is hard to watch ... but man, these are kids. Give them time ffs.

And Bednar, well, i don't know man. Let me say this. I think we "fans" are pretty quick blaming him when the team is hitting a rough stretch like this homestand. And yes, some of his decisions are headscratchers. But then again, the Avs played pretty well the first 20 games or so, were exciting to watch even in defeat and looked soooo much more competetive than the past 3 seasons combined. Call me crazy but i honestly think that our coaching stuff (incl. Bednar) must be involved somehow ... or not?

 

[Pokecheque]

Did we get any further explanation on how that second goal of BUF’s was considered onsides?

Definitely a game changing call, and it looked pretty clear to me that the puck made it out of the zone

It was a delayed offsides, which was called, but the players all tagged up before re-entering the zone so it was a good goal.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

You made some good points - can't argue with most of them and don't want to argue with the rest.

I think what's bothering me the most is the lack of patience some of you have. We are still talking about a 19 year old rookie who "has to be sent down" after a couple of Meh games ignoring the fact that he was in and out of the lineup because of injuries and wasn't able to develop any kind of chemistry or rythem because of that AND a 21 year old softmore (i guess) who is right now living in the shadow of an all mighty Teammate and still getting points on the board. Both have their flaws for sure - and even i have to admit that at least sometimes Mikkos game is hard to watch ... but man, these are kids. Give them time ffs.

And Bednar, well, i don't know man. Let me say this. I think we "fans" are pretty quick blaming him when the team is hitting a rough stretch like this homestand. And yes, some of his decision are headscratchers. But then again, the Avs played pretty well the first 20 games or so, were exciting to watch even in defeat and looked soooo much more competetive than the past 3 seasons combined. Call me crazy but i honestly think that our coaching stuff (incl. Bednar) must be involved somehow ... or not?

With Jost it's not about a couple of "meh" games. It's about him being too weak to handle players in NCAA, WJC and now especially in the NHL. He also needs to get faster. He has some skill with the puck and is very, very intelligent, but he's no more skilled with the puck right now than guys like Compher/Andrighetto/Kerfoot.. Add in the fact that he's much slower than those guys and cant win a board battle to save his life and it makes him the odd man out.

 

[the_fan]

How do you go from complaining about his play when he's in the lineup, to complaining about him being suspended because he's so important to the team's success? It's mind boggling how illogical that is.

I haven't complained about Landeskog's play this year because he has been playing good, and he is a big part of that 1st line having chemistry and dominating. This 3 game losing streak is mainly on his shoulders for being stupid and getting suspended.

 

[henchman21]

You made some good points - can't argue with most of them and don't want to argue with the rest.

I think what's bothering me the most is the lack of patience some of you have. We are still talking about a 19 year old rookie who "has to be sent down" after a couple of Meh games ignoring the fact that he was in and out of the lineup because of injuries and wasn't able to develop any kind of chemistry or rythem because of that AND a 21 year old softmore (i guess) who is right now living in the shadow of an all mighty Teammate and still getting points on the board. Both have their flaws for sure - and even i have to admit that at least sometimes Mikkos game is hard to watch ... but man, these are kids. Give them time ffs.

And Bednar, well, i don't know man. Let me say this. I think we "fans" are pretty quick blaming him when the team is hitting a rough stretch like this homestand. And yes, some of his decisions are headscratchers. But then again, the Avs played pretty well the first 20 games or so, were exciting to watch even in defeat and looked soooo much more competetive than the past 3 seasons combined. Call me crazy but i honestly think that our coaching stuff (incl. Bednar) must be involved somehow ... or not?

It isn't about patience with a kid, it is about putting the kid in the right spots to succeed. It is pretty clear Jost isn't ready for NHL duties right now. Injuries probably play a factor, but he is overwhelmed at the moment. Along with that, the accrued season timer is ticking down by the game (he's at 26 since his stint in the AHL was conditioning). Send him to the AHL/WJC sooner rather than later so he can develop and the timer stops for the moment. If he gathers his confidence and is playing lights out in January/February, then he can be called back up and potentially help the team.

I said it earlier, but the kid needs to work on his skating... big time. As a smaller guy, he needs to be able to skate at a high level to keep up... especially at center. Until he becomes a better skater, he is going to have issues in the NHL. His whole stride and body is stiff when he moves... I think he'd really benefit from introducing yoga into his workouts.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

You made some good points - can't argue with most of them and don't want to argue with the rest.

I think what's bothering me the most is the lack of patience some of you have. We are still talking about a 19 year old rookie who "has to be sent down" after a couple of Meh games ignoring the fact that he was in and out of the lineup because of injuries and wasn't able to develop any kind of chemistry or rythem because of that AND a 21 year old softmore (i guess) who is right now living in the shadow of an all mighty Teammate and still getting points on the board. Both have their flaws for sure - and even i have to admit that at least sometimes Mikkos game is hard to watch ... but man, these are kids. Give them time ffs.

And Bednar, well, i don't know man. Let me say this. I think we "fans" are pretty quick blaming him when the team is hitting a rough stretch like this homestand. And yes, some of his decisions are headscratchers. But then again, the Avs played pretty well the first 20 games or so, were exciting to watch even in defeat and looked soooo much more competetive than the past 3 seasons combined. Call me crazy but i honestly think that our coaching stuff (incl. Bednar) must be involved somehow ... or not?

Some people have higher expectations than just playing pretty well and being fun to watch. This is what I hope for when my 4 year old kid has a game.

Disagree that we look better now than under Roy as well. Last year though, absolutely. But the bar doesn't get any lower than last year.

And cut out the "fan" crap. Showing support for a lame duck coach doesn't make you any better of a fan.

 

[Raucherhusten]

It isn't about patience with a kid, it is about putting the kid in the right spots to succeed. It is pretty clear Jost isn't ready for NHL duties right now. Injuries probably play a factor, but he is overwhelmed at the moment. Along with that, the accrued season timer is ticking down by the game (he's at 26 since his stint in the AHL was conditioning). Send him to the AHL/WJC sooner rather than later so he can develop and the timer stops for the moment. If he gathers his confidence and is playing lights out in January/February, then he can be called back up and potentially help the team.

I said it earlier, but the kid needs to work on his skating... big time. As a smaller guy, he needs to be able to skate at a high level to keep up... especially at center. Until he becomes a better skater, he is going to have issues in the NHL. His whole stride and body is stiff when he moves... I think he'd really benefit from introducing yoga into his workouts.

Fair enough, but i'm not quite there yet. I want to see him for about 10 more games with Kerf/JT and give them a chance to develop "something" - if after that he still looks "not ready" then sure send him down. Maybe i would see things differently if Kamanev hasn't been injured but i prefer Jost over Bourque/Agozzino/Grimaldi any day of the week.

 

[Balthazar]

As we speak, EJ is still sliding towards Antarctica. What a stupid play.

Yesterdays game clearly showed we're missing...

- A point shot presence from the blueline.
- Better NHL depth players, I'm so done with Yakupov.
- A true sniper, so many glass shots.
- More IQ.

This is really it. No team can afford to have Yak + Ghetto + Wilson + Nieto + Bourque/Grimaldi on the lineup at the same time. Especially not since our real depth players are still not there yet (Compher, Kerfoot).

Our defense isn't good either.

We have some good pieces but we do not have a good team. We lose Mack or EJ and we're so f***ed.

 

[chet1926]

With all the comments on Jost, I figured I throw two cents out there.

It's hard for me to judge where Jost is at currently. Since day 1 he has not had much opportunity to show what he is capable of. This is mainly due to the extreme coddling of Kerfoot. Kerfoot has been the smallish skilled center getting all the cushy minutes and tons of PP time.

Let's be honest 5v5 Kerfoot is very average and out matched most of the time much like Jost. It's simply the facts, the only reason Kerfoot gets a pass around here most of the time is he is being fed ample PP time and is picking up lots of gimmie points or garbage time points when the other team has stopped trying, ex: NYI game he got two freebies at the end when the game was already decided.

In my honest opinion if you were to switch the roles around at the beginning of the year and give Jost tons of PP time and decent linemates from day 1 and made Kerfoot start on the 4th line with garbage linemates and no PP time, we'd be having the same conversation regarding Kerfoot and if he was capable of NHL time and if he should be sent to the AHL.

I guess my thought is that I still have no clue what Jost is capable of, because this team is completely mismanaging the kid. Either give him a quality role with decent linemates and decent PP time and let him try to be a secondary scorer behind the MacKinnon line or send him to the AHL where he can get more minutes and PP time and even PK time and actually grow as a player.

All I know is giving the kid average linemates and pretty much limited minutes basically all at even strength at the NHL is not helping the kid in any way. Either go for it at the NHL level and give him a bigger role or send him to the AHL for a bigger role.

 

[chet1926]

duplicate

 

[Pokecheque]

Okay, while I've defended him many times, and don't think I've been wrong at all in said defense, it's time to put Jared Bednar and his staff on blast, because they failed as miserably as the team did during this home stand.

First, for all the credit I have given Bednar in the past for making bold choices, especially when it comes to youth, he has relied on the trio of Nieto-Soderberg-Comeau for far, far too long now. It's weirdly conservative, especially for him. Remember, they started out as a 4th line and have been vaulted to practically 2nd line status.

While I completely understand why they've been relied on so much this year, the wheels are falling off a little, especially Matt Nieto, who has done next to nothing since his hat trick. And even Comeau's even-strength play has plateaued/regressed a bit in recent weeks. I think Soda could use some better scorers, and both Nieto and Comeau need to be bumped way down the lineup as their warts are really showing at even strength.

What's more, Bednar's insistence on keeping that line together is creating huge problems elsewhere, as the "2nd" and 4th lines are basically sloppy seconds and thirds. Alex Kerfoot should not be expected to carry a line by himself and it's killing his game right now. Bednar needs to finally admit that he's gotten as much as he can get for a 4th line that was playing way above its head and break it up. Put Soda with Kerf and Compher, maybe use Comeau on the 3rd with Wilson and whoever, and FFS, put Nieto on the 4th line where he belongs.

I also don't at all understand the notion of promoting Rocco Grimaldi to provide a "spark" and then sticking him on the 4th line. Grimaldi did little more than run around as a defensive liability, and I'm pretty sure he was on the ice for the comedy of errors that resulted in the McCabe goal.

And yes, I agree, Tyson Jost should have spent more time in the AHL. He's clearly struggling and could have used a lot more shakedown time. Bring up Dom Toninato as he was at least decent in getting the puck out of the zone. Look to make that 4th line more sound defensively instead of taking the biggest defensive liabilities on the team and sticking them there.

All in all, in terms of personnel decisions, deployment, and tactics, this was a huge failure all around. I hope the team is taking a good, long look as to how best to move forward because this team as currently comprised isn't working.

 

[JoemAvs]

Fair enough, but i'm not quite there yet. I want to see him for about 10 more games with Kerf/JT and give them a chance to develop "something" - if after that he still looks "not ready" then sure send him down. Maybe i would see things differently if Kamanev hasn't been injured but i prefer Jost over Bourque/Agozzino/Grimaldi any day of the week.

What the hell does Jost have to do with Kamenev?
It seems like you and many others have fallen into the usual Avs trap of thinking we are way better than we really are. Lets just hope Sakic and friends for once are not in that group but I am sceptical when it comes to that to say the least.

The Avs shouldn't give a damn about the net impact Jost instead of Bourque in the lineup could potentially have on their win total.

All the Avs should care about right now with Jost is his development. Which right now looks like a trainwreck. I said it back then and I will say it now again: I hate how they handled Jost. He should have never left college last season. They used him as a PR move to regain some sort of face in what as a beyond awful season and Tyson right now is paying the price for it.
He certainly is not developing the way one would hope he does and the longer this continues, the worse we screw up his development (which is crucial for us longterm. We really need him to pan out).

The kid clearly was not ready and he clearly is not ready now. Him getting injured repeatedly certainly did not help but ultimately also can be attributed to his body simply not being ready for the NHL.

I think the same happened with Girard who I still maintain should have been sent down as well if we would have made the decision purely based on what is best for his development versus what is best for the current Colorado Avalanche (management team).

There simply is no reason to rush your top prospects when your team should have no expectations on them anyways. We are a bottom 5 team in the league. Which actually is an improvement over last year and could be viewed as progress.
Just because people let themselves get fooled by a hot start and for selfish reasons obviously want to see a competitive team, our young prospects should not have to pay the price for it.

I really hope they won't make the same mistake with Makar.
The Avs are not close to competing for anything in this deadly division anytime soon.

How about we let our prospects marinate and properly develop at a slower pace for once instead of always throwing them into the fire as 18 or 19 year olds just to polish the turd that has been the Colorado Avalanche NHL roster for almost a decade now?

 

[dahrougem2]

I said exactly this to my fiancé after the goal last night. She looked at me like I was an idiot for interrupting her instagram time, but I still told her.

Ha, I said the same thing to my wife as she was whitening the background of her hair photo from one of her clients so she could post to her Instagram page.

Regarding Jost, it's clear as day - and has been from the beginning - that he isn't ready. I don't know if they promised him he'd be up in the NHL if he left the NCAA or what, but he isn't ready. He needs a full season of AHL hockey just like Rantanen did. Sure, this season is about development but I'd rather he play top line minutes in the AHL and get PP time instead of toiling away here with limited EV time and no PP time. He also gets bullied a lot out there. Just send him down and let him figure it out in the AHL, build his confidence back up.

Regarding Bednar, I do agree it's time to split up the "4th" line which has been acting as our 2nd line. Matt Nieto was hilariously bad last night, and has been for a while now. Comeau has been average-to-good damn near all season but he's ideally a 3rd liner. I know Kerfoot said he feels more comfortable at C, but at this point we need to get scoring from someone not named Nathan MacKinnon. I'd roll out:

Landeskog-MacKinnon-Rantanen
Kerfoot-Soderberg-Compher
Andrighetto-Wilson-Comeau
Nieto-Toninato-Yakupov

Yak is in a weird place on that 4th line, but realistically he isn't better than any of the wingers in that top-6 and you aren't going to use him on that 3rd line. Andrighetto better learn how to work hard again or I'd swap him right back for Nieto.

They also need to start limiting Girard's minutes. I think he's a lot more ready for the NHL than Jost is, but he's in over his head being asked to play top-4 minutes as a 19 year old. Run with:

Zadorov-EJ
Lindholm-Barrie

for the time being, and when Nemeth is back he can bump Lindholm down to the 3rd pairing so that he can play with Girard.

 

[dahrougem2]

Also, in Bednar's post-game comments he sounded frustrated at the team's lack of ability to get shots from the point through to the net. It's definitely strategic for him. I think his go-to offensive tactic is to get the puck in deep, get it back to the point and get low-quality shots on net. It can be effective if you have the right sort of roster (see L.A. Kings circa 2012-2014), but that isn't this roster. We don't have the forwards for it, and we damn sure don't have the defensemen for it. He has to adapt, but I doubt he will.

 

[Freaky Styley]

I'm not sure why Soda was ever taken off the 1st PP unit. Seemed like change for changes sake. I don't think they were scoring at the time but they were still generating quality chances. I would take Kerfoot & Barrie off the top unit, replace them with Soda and Girard (with Landy instead of Compher). Then the 2nd unit you have Yak, Compher, Kerfoot, Barrie & Jost to work with.