Speculation: Freddy to Canes for Pesce and Reims

[JT AM da real deal]

An overage doesn't indicate a bind. Here's how they sit without making any changes to reduce cap space:

Forwards (12) assuming Geekie remains on squad and Foegele signs for ~1.3M: $41.2M cap hit
Defense (7) assuming Pesce off IR, Fleury signed for ~1M, Bean promoted: $26.2M cap hit
Goalies (2): $6.5M cap hit
Semin (LOL) Buyout $: $2.3M cap hit

Total cap hit: $76.2M.
Overage from last year: $1.3M
Total from those: $77.5M

Potential bonus's for next year (which if I understand correctly an be carry over to next year if need be): $3.1M

They can make it work fairly easily without making any moves to try to reduce cap space.

It is not an issue of CAP in Caneland ... it is an issue of no funds to make payroll ... there scouts not being paid today ... they have a 69M real payroll and want to reduce to 60M real payroll to start season

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

It is not an issue of CAP in Caneland ... it is an issue of no funds to make payroll ... there scouts not being paid today ... they have a 69M real payroll and want to reduce to 60M real payroll to start season

Yes, I understand that premise. The poster I responded to was saying that the Canes are in a bind because of performance bonus's overage. That's strictly a cap issue as it impacts the cap next year as the bonus's were paid out already this year. That overage has nothing to do with actual salary expenditure for next year.

I have no idea what number they want to get down to though. Is the $60M you mention something that is out there in verified press? (I don't follow a lot of the press so genuinely curious).

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Yes, I understand that premise. The poster I responded to was saying that the Canes are in a bind because of performance bonus's overage. That's strictly a cap issue as it impacts the cap next year as the bonus's were paid out already this year. That overage has nothing to do with actual salary expenditure for next year.

I have no idea what number they want to get down to though. Is the $60M you mention something that is out there in verified press? (I don't follow a lot of the press so genuinely curious).

I played golf on Sunday with a few friends past from hockey and Canes have laid off scouts ... while da reduction of Cane admin staff has been reported publicly da hockey side has been dismantled after Francis departure ... I think they will hire their own people once hockey back with fans in stands ... da owner requires team to be self sufficient ... whereas some owners don't care as they get into it for winning Cups ... but this is a numbers guy who does not want to go into his own pocket

 

[Tak7]

Raycroft and Toskala, especially Toskala, were objectively god awful. I think most realize Andersen is certainly not terrible or even bad, but he's overrated and chokes up softies, especially in gm 7

Fair points

 

[Duckrider]

Where are they getting an upgrade in net for $1 million? Doubtful it happens.

But they could get Georgiev as they and the Rangers seem to have a thing....

I liked Riemer when he was here. Anderson made an impression in his first couple of games here. He is a much better goalie. Even if Anderson costs you the 13th overall you are much better.

 

[Duckrider]

We don't need to bring back a mediocre goalie in return for Freddie if you're going to move him at all. If you thought Freddie was that bad, we'll be worse with Reimer because he simply isn't good enough and no half season will change the fact that he isnt a starter. The only reason you acquire him, is to move him and make space for a UFA goalie

What's the difference the team is not good enough all round? Plus he just couldn't seem to win!

 

[Zonk]

I played golf on Sunday with a few friends past from hockey and Canes have laid off scouts ... while da reduction of Cane admin staff has been reported publicly da hockey side has been dismantled after Francis departure ... I think they will hire their own people once hockey back with fans in stands ... da owner requires team to be self sufficient ... whereas some owners don't care as they get into it for winning Cups ... but this is a numbers guy who does not want to go into his own pocket

At first I thought that this proposal was ridiculous, but when I read through the entire thread it makes much more sense. Thank you, OP, for making the proposal and explaining the rationale. I have a few questions:

You indicate that the Canes are to reduce their payroll from $69 million to $60 million. Capfriendly shows them currently at $69.4 with only 17 players signed. Does their internal budget expect a full roster of at least 20 players for $60 million?

I believe that all signing bonuses were paid on or about July 1. (At least, that is what Bob MacKenzie tweeted.) That makes Andersen very attractive with only $1 million left to pay, but also means that Carolina has already paid most of Reimer's compensation. Would it not make more sense to trade Mrazek, who has no signing bonus?

There has not been much mention of the affect of the expansion draft. If the Canes resign Hamilton, they cannot protect Slavin, Skjei and Pesce, unless they are willing to sacrifice a higher end forward. Have you heard anything about the Canes plans for ED?

 

[spockBokk]

I played golf on Sunday with a few friends past from hockey and Canes have laid off scouts ... while da reduction of Cane admin staff has been reported publicly da hockey side has been dismantled after Francis departure ... I think they will hire their own people once hockey back with fans in stands ... da owner requires team to be self sufficient ... whereas some owners don't care as they get into it for winning Cups ... but this is a numbers guy who does not want to go into his own pocket

Was there perhaps a cable guy from Quebec City or a fun girl who likes to track flights in your golf party as well?

 

[Menzinger]

So how do you free up cap space so easily without subtracting from the product on the ice ? Sure you can dump Kerfoot, AJ, Kappy and Andy and free up millions but you actually have to replace them. While you are adding scrubs and possibly a decent dman (how did that work last year with Barrie) other teams are adding top draft picks on ECLs and paying their stars market price. The AVs are paying Mac half of what Mattews is paid and have blue chippers waiting. We got Sandin/Lily and Roberston. If you can't see what a shamble Dubas has caused since he took over the team, I cannot help you.

All the 4 core pillars have proven in the playoffs is they cannot produce at the level they are paid at. If they can't do it, you can't expect scrubs like Goat, Engvall, Spezza, Holl, CC, Dermott, Marincin, and Soup to and they sure as hell did not.

Yup let's give the fool another year to see what else he can screw up. God help Leaf fans everywehere.

Washington nor Tampa gave up on their young core players after disappointment early on

I'd be wary thinking a 23 year old had shown everything he can do

 

[LeafParade]

I don't know how they are going to reduce their team salary to 60 million. That looks ridiculous.

 

[Menzinger]

I don't know how they are going to reduce their team salary to 60 million. That looks ridiculous.

A lot of teams will be selling assets for cents on the dollar.

Something like 12 teams have cap overages at the moment.

Which is why in part Dubas said the Leafs don't have a cap problem...

Will probably be the widlest free agency/ offseason period in ages

 

[ToneDog]

Washington nor Tampa gave up on their young core players after disappointment early on

I'd be wary thinking a 23 year old had shown everything he can do

Doubt they had 4 forwards chewing up half the cap and only two quality dmen.

 

[ToneDog]

A lot of teams will be selling assets for cents on the dollar.

Something like 12 teams have cap overages at the moment.

Which is why in part Dubas said the Leafs don't have a cap problem...

Will probably be the widlest free agency/ offseason period in ages

Well this could be the answer to Dubas' prayers. Looking forward axiously to seeing what moves he makes.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Was there perhaps a cable guy from Quebec City or a fun girl who likes to track flights in your golf party as well?

I always think of this Police song:

De do do do, de da da da
Is all I want to say to you

 

[Stephen]

I don't know how they are going to reduce their team salary to 60 million. That looks ridiculous.

If it looks anything like the 1990s, be prepared to see a lot of stars sold off for futures.

 

[glue]

Like the Leafs, I think they also want a shake-up after getting hammered by the Bruins again...Reimer also has 1 year left in his contract...maybe they think that their defense in front of Freddy makes them a better team.

Yeah but why would Carolina give up Brett Pesce, young RD signed for a few more years at a great cap hit for 1 year of Frieddie? Unless I’m missing something about Pesce that makes very little sense. I imagine they could get better then that for Pesce.

 

[ACC1224]

Yeah but why would Carolina give up Brett Pesce, young RD signed for a few more years at a great cap hit for 1 year of Frieddie? Unless I’m missing something about Pesce that makes very little sense. I imagine they could get better then that for Pesce.

I believe the thinking is they get the full Andersen cap hit but only pay out a fraction of the cost.
I agree, Pesce seems like an unlikely return.

 

[Chrispy]

I believe the thinking is they get the full Andersen cap hit but only pay out a fraction of the cost.
I agree, Pesce seems like an unlikely return.

Cap floor isn't an issue, so the hit of Andersen going to be a big help. If cutting salary is the goal, they could buy out Mrazek for the same price as Andersen and roll Reimer + Nedeljkovic, who has a 1 way deal next season anyway. Reimer's already had his bonus paid, so it would be cheap for both goalies in salary during next season.

There isn't a reason for Carolina to give up significant assets for Andersen. Mrazek + a pick or low prospect? Maybe.

At first I thought that this proposal was ridiculous, but when I read through the entire thread it makes much more sense. Thank you, OP, for making the proposal and explaining the rationale. I have a few questions:

You indicate that the Canes are to reduce their payroll from $69 million to $60 million. Capfriendly shows them currently at $69.4 with only 17 players signed. Does their internal budget expect a full roster of at least 20 players for $60 million?

I believe that all signing bonuses were paid on or about July 1. (At least, that is what Bob MacKenzie tweeted.) That makes Andersen very attractive with only $1 million left to pay, but also means that Carolina has already paid most of Reimer's compensation. Would it not make more sense to trade Mrazek, who has no signing bonus?

There has not been much mention of the affect of the expansion draft. If the Canes resign Hamilton, they cannot protect Slavin, Skjei and Pesce, unless they are willing to sacrifice a higher end forward. Have you heard anything about the Canes plans for ED?

Even if you buy that story, the $69.4M includes $12.2M already paid in bonuses on July 1 (Aho, Svechnikov, Reimer). Aho only costs $700K between now and June 30, 2021; Reimer only costs $850K. The current payroll to pay next season (subtracting buyouts and bonuses, and adding Pesce back in from IR) is just under $57M with Fleury and Foegele to sign as RFAs. Based on that number, a $60M payroll is a reasonable target. It doesn't allow for much addition via UFA, but it can easily be accomplished without slashing the payroll.

 

[Mess]

Yeah but why would Carolina give up Brett Pesce, young RD signed for a few more years at a great cap hit for 1 year of Frieddie? Unless I’m missing something about Pesce that makes very little sense. I imagine they could get better then that for Pesce.

I agree .. Carolina could simply trade Pesce for a Kapanen like return of 1st and prospect and save $4 mil cap and money.

That is really the same thing as Leafs paying Andersen (a pending UFA in 1 year) $4 mil signing bonus first and then dealing him to Canes with a $1 mil balance. In both cases they save $4 mil, only in one example they also add a top pick and/or prospect.

Andersen is a 1 year rental player seems unrealistic to expect to get Pesce unless Leafs are also including their 1st (15th overall) in the swap. IMO

So Andersen (post signing bonus -$4mil) + 1st 15th overall for Pesce & Reimer (post signing bonus -$2.25 mil).
&
Cap wise Leafs OUT $5 mil & Pesce $4.025 mil + Reimer at $850k = $4875 mil IN

 

[JT AM da real deal]

At first I thought that this proposal was ridiculous, but when I read through the entire thread it makes much more sense. Thank you, OP, for making the proposal and explaining the rationale. I have a few questions:

You indicate that the Canes are to reduce their payroll from $69 million to $60 million. Capfriendly shows them currently at $69.4 with only 17 players signed. Does their internal budget expect a full roster of at least 20 players for $60 million?

I believe that all signing bonuses were paid on or about July 1. (At least, that is what Bob MacKenzie tweeted.) That makes Andersen very attractive with only $1 million left to pay, but also means that Carolina has already paid most of Reimer's compensation. Would it not make more sense to trade Mrazek, who has no signing bonus?

There has not been much mention of the affect of the expansion draft. If the Canes resign Hamilton, they cannot protect Slavin, Skjei and Pesce, unless they are willing to sacrifice a higher end forward. Have you heard anything about the Canes plans for ED?

No I don't know anyone anymore with Canes after their purge of Francis' people. and your follow up points are all really good and would require knowing someone their. We threw around a goalie coming back for salary dump/roster purposes and everyone thought Reims because he was here before but it could be Mrazek. People here are down on Canes because of what they did to Francis and his staff of hockey people. Pesce makes sense for Canes because he has had 3-4 severe right shoulder injuries since being a kid and they have a few defense in minors who are NHL ready now and much cheaper. Quite frankly I think most hockey people are worried he may not come back even close to way he was before so this would be another very risky move for Dubie. Now it also could be he is fine and there is no impact on his stick puck strength or shot. From Canes perspective they would improve tending position on da cheap and they would not lose anything on their defense given depth in their system. But in Caneland it will all come down to $$$. It is sad really to have so few season ticket holders and sponsors and NHL really should bring in owners who drop $$$ into their teams like STL.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Was there perhaps a cable guy from Quebec City or a fun girl who likes to track flights in your golf party as well?

No but we control da drywall market across Canada and it does get a little dirty sometimes if you know what I mean

 

[Legion34]

I agree .. Carolina could simply trade Pesce for a Kapanen like return of 1st and prospect and save $4 mil cap and money.

That is really the same thing as Leafs paying Andersen (a pending UFA in 1 year) $4 mil signing bonus first and then dealing him to Canes with a $1 mil balance. In both cases they save $4 mil, only in one example they also add a top pick and/or prospect.

Andersen is a 1 year rental player seems unrealistic to expect to get Pesce unless Leafs are also including their 1st (15th overall) in the swap. IMO

So Andersen (post signing bonus -$4mil) + 1st 15th overall for Pesce & Reimer (post signing bonus -$2.25 mil).
&
Cap wise Leafs OUT $5 mil & Pesce $4.025 mil + Reimer at $850k = $4875 mil IN

I was kinda thinking we may do the 15th overall for Hamilton.


Anderson and a 1st for pesce May work?


But why wouldn’t we have done kap and Andersen for pesce then? Does Carolina really need 2 firsts?

 

[81Leafs50]

Seems to me that’s actually not the case

there was a typo in there. I meant to say "without Andersen in net, the Leafs are a lottery team or a non playoff team like the oilers"

 

[Legion34]

No I don't know anyone anymore with Canes after their purge of Francis' people. and your follow up points are all really good and would require knowing someone their. We threw around a goalie coming back for salary dump/roster purposes and everyone thought Reims because he was here before but it could be Mrazek. People here are down on Canes because of what they did to Francis and his staff of hockey people. Pesce makes sense for Canes because he has had 3-4 severe right shoulder injuries since being a kid and they have a few defense in minors who are NHL ready now and much cheaper. Quite frankly I think most hockey people are worried he may not come back even close to way he was before so this would be another very risky move for Dubie. Now it also could be he is fine and there is no impact on his stick puck strength or shot. From Canes perspective they would improve tending position on da cheap and they would not lose anything on their defense given depth in their system. But in Caneland it will all come down to $$$. It is sad really to have so few season ticket holders and sponsors and NHL really should bring in owners who drop $$$ into their teams like STL.

ok but then wouldn’t they want to get rid of Hamilton? Not pesce? He gets paid 6 million now and will be looking for a raise.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

ok but then wouldn’t they want to get rid of Hamilton? Not pesce? He gets paid 6 million now and will be looking for a raise.

True but he is their best or 2nd best defense with Slavin. It is different when you are looking to move your 3rd/4th best guy who is older and has significant risk of injury recovery. Canes have rolly, Bean and Hayden ready to play now. Plus they have Gards and Brady long term. But if we could pull out Hamilton WOW that would make me tip my hat to Dubie. It makes sense for both teams to get something done as each can benefit. It will come down to $$$ and cents for Canes and CAP for us.