Speculation: Freddy to Canes for Pesce and Reims

Chrispy

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True but he is their best or 2nd best defense with Slavin. It is different when you are looking to move your 3rd/4th best guy who is older and has significant risk of injury recovery. Canes have rolly, Bean and Hayden ready to play now. Plus they have Gards and Brady long term. But if we could pull out Hamilton WOW that would make me tip my hat to Dubie. It makes sense for both teams to get something done as each can benefit. It will come down to $$$ and cents for Canes and CAP for us.

Pesce is younger than Hamilton and Slavin, and if salary is a concern he's cheaper than either of them as well. Also, Pesce was on track to return for the conference finals, so it seems like all should be good for recovery for next season.

If they are thinking about moving salary for the short term Hamilton is the play if they can't lock him down long-term. But it will take more than a rental goalie.
 
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kb

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Pesce is younger than Hamilton and Slavin, and if salary is a concern he's cheaper than either of them as well. Also, Pesce was on track to return for the conference finals, so it seems like all should be good for recovery for next season.

If they are thinking about moving salary for the short term Hamilton is the play if they can't lock him down long-term. But it will take more than a rental goalie.
In all fairness, Hamilton is a rental as well.
 
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PromisedLand

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Why do you want Riemer? he is even worst than Freddy. Given teh way this team plays defensively; if you think Freddy is bad; with Rimer you would get even more frustrated.
 

kb

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And a top pairing D is much more valuable than a goalie.

There's also a lot more goalies on the market this off-season than top pairing D.
Not for $1 million in actual dollars.
 
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Boom Boom Apathy

I am the Professor. Deal with it!
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True but he is their best or 2nd best defense with Slavin. It is different when you are looking to move your 3rd/4th best guy who is older and has significant risk of injury recovery. Canes have rolly, Bean and Hayden ready to play now. Plus they have Gards and Brady long term. But if we could pull out Hamilton WOW that would make me tip my hat to Dubie. It makes sense for both teams to get something done as each can benefit. It will come down to $$$ and cents for Canes and CAP for us.
I think you are under estimating a couple things in Carolina.

1. Pesce is the only RHD signed in Carolina beyond next season. If Hamilton asks for the moon (and he has every right to), Carolina will be left with no top 4 RHD. A similar problem Toronto has been trying to solve for years.

2. the only AHL guy NHL ready is Bean, who is a LHD and the opposite type of defenseman that Pesce is. There is no internal replacement for Pesce at all. McKeown is RHD, but he’s an AHL/nhl tweener, or bottom pairing at best.

3. When Carolina traded for Skjei, they said directly they were looking for a LHD partner for Pesce. So now trade Pesce and be left with a worse player (Skjei) anchoring the 2nd pairing?

I do get it, Pesce is a great fit in both on ice play and cap hit for Toronto, so fans (and the team) want him, but I feel there’s a lot of mental gymnastics going on to try to make it seem to make sense for Carolina, where in my view it doesn’t.

I get the cutting salary aspect you mention, but there are other ways to skin that cat without losing the only RHD signed beyond next year. If Faulk was still here or Hamilton re-signs, maybe It’s a different story.

I’m not saying it can’t or won’t happen though. just that it doesn’t make a lot of sense given the factors I listed.
 

kb

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I think you are under estimating a couple things in Carolina.

1. Pesce is the only RHD signed in Carolina beyond next season. If Hamilton asks for the moon (and he has every right to), Carolina will be left with no top 4 RHD. A similar problem Toronto has been trying to solve for years.

2. the only AHL guy NHL ready is Bean, who is a LHD and the opposite type of defenseman that Pesce is. There is no internal replacement for Pesce at all. McKeown is RHD, but he’s an AHL/nhl tweener, or bottom pairing at best.

3. When Carolina traded for Skjei, they said directly they were looking for a LHD partner for Pesce. So now trade Pesce and be left with a worse player (Skjei) anchoring the 2nd pairing?

I do get it, Pesce is a great fit in both on ice play and cap hit for Toronto, so fans (and the team) want him, but I feel there’s a lot of mental gymnastics going on to try to make it seem to make sense for Carolina, where in my view it doesn’t.

I get the cutting salary aspect you mention, but there are other ways to skin that cat without losing the only RHD signed beyond next year. If Faulk was still here or Hamilton re-signs, maybe It’s a different story.

I’m not saying it can’t or won’t happen though. just that it doesn’t make a lot of sense given the factors I listed.
Well put. I don't think the 2 teams match up well as trade partners for Toronto to land a RD, but I do think there are deals to be made. Perhaps something around Andersen for McGinn + prospect?
 

Chan790

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Not for $1 million in actual dollars.

Toronto fans keep mentioning it, and I think it's probably less important to Carolina than they think.

I don't think it makes or breaks any deals for the Canes. Waddell already said he expects salary and cap next year to come in about where they were this year.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

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Well put. I don't think the 2 teams match up well as trade partners for Toronto to land a RD, but I do think there are deals to be made. Perhaps something around Andersen for McGinn + prospect?
I think a lot of Canes fans would say yes to McGinn and a prospect (depending on the prospect) but most Leafs fans would say no to the prospect Carolina fans would want to part with.
 

The Iceman

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Sep 22, 2007
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OK, expand the trade

We trade Willy, Andy and our 1st
We get Hamilton, Mrazak and TERÄVÄINEN

Carolina saves a ton in actual salary for next season.
 

TorMapleJays

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kb

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I think a lot of Canes fans would say yes to McGinn and a prospect (depending on the prospect) but most Leafs fans would say no to the prospect Carolina fans would want to part with.
I suspect that is going to be the sticking point, or grey area for that trade. I'd look at Keane, but I'm sure there is little appetite for that from the Canes perspective.

Might just be better to be McGinn and a pick.
 
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Leafsfan74

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Blues are dumping salary obviously to try and make an offer that keeps AP. How much would Andersen get in a similar cap dump?

Dubas is going to have to use the might of the MLSE to find some space to be creative, for instance, I read that teams do get a $5M cap hit if they pick up Andersen, but only have to pay him $1M for next year due to Leafs contract structure. In order for Leafs to make the significant moves that are needed, it's going to take this kind of leveraging and creativity.

Kudos to the Blues for having the brains to see how important key players are that REALLY control or turn a series. I'm getting the feeling this Leaf team is going to be limited for next year which could make being a buyer at the deadline (which presumably they'd have to wait for) a dicey proposition.

Dubas can't overpay, as he has to get cap down and fire his one or two shots.

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/jake-allen-trade-canadiens-blues-nhl-1.5709413

St. Louis received a third- and a seventh-round pick in this year's NHL draft in exchange for Allen and a 2022 seventh-rounder. Getting Allen's $4.35 million US cap hit off the books is more significant because it increases the chances of re-signing pending free-agent defenceman Alex Pietrangelo.
 

kb

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Blues are dumping salary obviously to try and make an offer that keeps AP. How much would Andersen get in a similar cap dump?

Dubas is going to have to use the might of the MLSE to find some space to be creative, for instance, I read that teams do get a $5M cap hit if they pick up Andersen, but only have to pay him $1M for next year due to Leafs contract structure. In order for Leafs to make the significant moves that are needed, it's going to take this kind of leveraging and creativity.

Kudos to the Blues for having the brains to see how important key players are that REALLY control or turn a series. I'm getting the feeling this Leaf team is going to be limited for next year which could make being a buyer at the deadline (which presumably they'd have to wait for) a dicey proposition.

Dubas can't overpay, as he has to get cap down and fire his one or two shots.

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/jake-allen-trade-canadiens-blues-nhl-1.5709413

St. Louis received a third- and a seventh-round pick in this year's NHL draft in exchange for Allen and a 2022 seventh-rounder. Getting Allen's $4.35 million US cap hit off the books is more significant because it increases the chances of re-signing pending free-agent defenceman Alex Pietrangelo.
Too bad the league isn't filled with Bergevins....
 
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Buds17

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Montreal's goalie cap hit for next season is now just a whisker under $15 million
BAHAHAHAHAHA

That's why I find the Allen acquisition puzzling at this time. It's a lot of cap tied up in a goalie tandem...and I'd use "tandem" a bit loosely since their starter is Price @ 10.5 M.
 
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Legion34

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And a top pairing D is much more valuable than a goalie.

There's also a lot more goalies on the market this off-season than top pairing D.

5 million dollars in savings in a pandemic for teams that can’t pay their own scouts is a massive advantage.
 

spockBokk

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5 million dollars in savings in a pandemic for teams that can’t pay their own scouts is a massive advantage.

Are we really basing the “can’t pay their scouts” narrative on what some random poster says was golf chit-chat?
 

JT AM da real deal

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Toronto fans keep mentioning it, and I think it's probably less important to Carolina than they think.

I don't think it makes or breaks any deals for the Canes. Waddell already said he expects salary and cap next year to come in about where they were this year.
You can say whatever you want publicly because they do have a 7,000 fan season ticket base to manage. But why did they let go their AHL and some NHL and junior scouts go. They have no one left in GTA zero. It was not only operations, finance and marketing people in Raleigh who were fired. ok i get firing all of Francis' hockey people but why not replace them? They are going into a deep draft in a very bad spot. I mean there are a ton of people who really don't get what they are doing in Caneland. But it all starts at top and you can't treat hockey teams like you do an LBO and skim da cash.
 

spockBokk

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You can say whatever you want publicly because they do have a 7,000 fan season ticket base to manage. But why did they let go their AHL and some NHL and junior scouts go. They have no one left in GTA zero. It was not only operations, finance and marketing people in Raleigh who were fired. ok i get firing all of Francis' hockey people but why not replace them? They are going into a deep draft in a very bad spot. I mean there are a ton of people who really don't get what they are doing in Caneland. But it all starts at top and you can't treat hockey teams like you do an LBO and skim da cash.

Really sounds like the Canes are cutting salary down to $60M this year, yep sure does...

The Carolina Hurricanes would be a team of note here as far as potential trade partners for the Jets. And sources indicate Laine would be of great interest to Carolina if at all possible. Imagine countrymen Laine and Sebastian Aho together full-time? Wow.


And really sounds like they’d deal 4 years of Pesce for 1 year of Andersen, yessir:

Now, I can tell you right now the Canes do not want to deal Pesce. They love his contract. I mean, love it.

LeBrun rumblings: Laine trade talk, Canadiens moves, the goalie market and more
 
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JT AM da real deal

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Really sounds like the Canes are cutting salary down to $60M this year, yep sure does...

The Carolina Hurricanes would be a team of note here as far as potential trade partners for the Jets. And sources indicate Laine would be of great interest to Carolina if at all possible. Imagine countrymen Laine and Sebastian Aho together full-time? Wow.


And really sounds like they’d deal 4 years of Pesce for 1 year of Andersen, yessir:

Now, I can tell you right now the Canes do not want to deal Pesce. They love his contract. I mean, love it.

LeBrun rumblings: Laine trade talk, Canadiens moves, the goalie market and more
We will see how Pesce does when he takes da ice again? I have nothing against him and hope for his best. But we will see. He has had his right shoulder ripped up and put back together quite a few times already.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

I am the Professor. Deal with it!
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You can say whatever you want publicly because they do have a 7,000 fan season ticket base to manage. But why did they let go their AHL and some NHL and junior scouts go. They have no one left in GTA zero. It was not only operations, finance and marketing people in Raleigh who were fired. ok i get firing all of Francis' hockey people but why not replace them? They are going into a deep draft in a very bad spot. I mean there are a ton of people who really don't get what they are doing in Caneland. But it all starts at top and you can't treat hockey teams like you do an LBO and skim da cash.

A couple comments on this.
First, the Canes have been getting rid Francis's guys for a while now (well before covid). Some of them, frankly, were good old boy network guys that didn't do much. Nieuwendyk as special consultant (but he stayed in Dallas). Wesley as director of defensemen, even though he already had moved to Utah, etc..

Secondly, talking specifically about scouts, they did get rid of some (and some retired) last year, but then hired 3 more scouts before the season started (Cody Nickolet, Eric Fink, Oleg Smirnov). A couple of the management/scouting director folks are no longer on the Canes Staff Directory, so I assume their contracts weren't renewed or they were furloughed, but most of the other scouts are still there on the directory. Maybe they were furloughed as well, but usually (like in Forslunds case), they remove them from the directory right off. I can't say for sure how many are there and aren't there.

I would venture a guess that since they expected the draft to be in June, the VAST majority of the scouting, write-ups, summaries, and discussions have already occurred. Yes, they'll miss some of the table pounding and discussions where a scout will try to get a guy he likes picked, and that has value, but it's not like they are going into the draft with zero information because scouts were let go in August. If anything, the remaining guys have more time to digest the information and watch film.

Regarding the other cuts, I see both sides it. I'm a believer that scouting is important so if it was my business, I'd want to try and protect that as much as possible. On the flip side, I could see an owner, worried about the bottom line say: Why do I need to have AHL scouts when the AHL isn't playing? Why do I need as many junior scouts when there's no junior hockey to scout? Why do I need operations and marketing people when there is a strong likelihood we won't be playing any home games next season? And then looking to fill those roles again once it makes sense. Not saying I completely agree with all of it, but I do see some merit in that approach.

I get that it's not traditional, but with Covid19, we aren't in traditional times.
 

Duckrider

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Yeah but why would Carolina give up Brett Pesce, young RD signed for a few more years at a great cap hit for 1 year of Frieddie? Unless I’m missing something about Pesce that makes very little sense. I imagine they could get better then that for Pesce.

Ya, no I'd say it makes more sense that they just send back our pick and call it a day
 
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