Player Discussion Frank Vatrano II
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PlayMakers
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I don't know about that. I don't think his release is a problem (I'd actually say it's a strength).
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PlayMakers
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To me, his issue is that he's not that good at generating his own offense. He needs to play with a passer he has chemistry with and he hasn't meshed well with Spooner.
So what's left? He's not unseating Marchand. I thought he might make a case for Krejci's LW in camp but they didn't even consider that option and DeBrusk has been great so now it's definitely not going to happen. He played a few games with Spooner and the rest with 4th liners who aren't natural playmakers. How many goals would Glen Murray have scored with Greg Campbell as his center?
I don't know, even when he's not scoring, he's brings speed, energy and hitting. And I just keep thinking that if they could find the right mix he could provide good depth scoring.
So what's left? He's not unseating Marchand. I thought he might make a case for Krejci's LW in camp but they didn't even consider that option and DeBrusk has been great so now it's definitely not going to happen. He played a few games with Spooner and the rest with 4th liners who aren't natural playmakers. How many goals would Glen Murray have scored with Greg Campbell as his center?
I don't know, even when he's not scoring, he's brings speed, energy and hitting. And I just keep thinking that if they could find the right mix he could provide good depth scoring.
Mainehockey33
Powerplay Specialist
He’s fallen off a cliff since last season. Call Heinen a shiny new toy, but he showed he can contribute to the team now both offensively and defensively. When Vatrano isn’t scoring, he isn’t that effective. Sure he gets in on the forecheck but It doesn’t really translate to offense.
Who knows, he might get hot and start scoring goals but how long do you wait? I wouldn’t be against keeping him around for awhile to see if he can work through it if I didn’t think the other shiny new toys were ready. Hell, I was one of Spooner’s biggest supporters and I don’t see a spot for him either.
BruinDust
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- Aug 2, 2005
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I think that is the crux of the issue with Vatrano. I'd say the same about Belesky, neither are good at generating there own offense, so they rely on guys who can carry the puck and make plays to find them in soft spots on the ice to utilize their strengths, in both cases their shot. Guys who cannot generate their own offense are ultimately complimentary players, but you need those too, coaches just need to find the right fit for them.
He looked like he had chemistry with Backes, whose an underrated passer. But the ship appears to have sailed as far as Backes playing the middle in Boston, so they would need to find someone to go in the middle.
I also thought he looked good on RW with Bergeron and Marchand in his short stint there last year, but that appears to be Bjork's spot for now and rightfully so.
Blowfish
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gumgum
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- Oct 15, 2017
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i think ‘release’ and vision are both primary factors in getting your shot off before goaltenders square to you and defenders have time to get in lanes. more often than not, vatrano will hold on to the puck for that extra second because he doesn’t quite have a handle on it or couldn’t get it to lay flat (a skill deficiency, for the most part). he also has that problematic vision-related problem where he seems to have trouble knowing how close he is to the net on the fly, so he’ll throw one on net from too far out, when in reality he had the time and space to move in closer (seems like this is often cause he doesn’t skate heads up when taking on a defender or going to the net).
ODAAT
Registered User
Something I`ve noticed with Frankie is he too often doesn`t identify the soft spots on the ice to get to in order to get wide open to unload a shot. He`s not really a guy who`ll typically create his own opportunity so he needs to better identify where it is in the offensive zone he should be shifting to in order to give his teammates a target.
Too often it appears like he has a spot in mind where he`s going and has tunnel vision. I am using Brett Hull not as a potential goal scoring potential but being a great example of this, had an absolute sublime skill at identifying where the best spots on the ice were for him to be and despite everyone being aware of his shot and the likelihood of it ending up in the back of the net, he consistently found the soft spots. Frankie isn`t doing this and it has nothing to do with who he is playing with
I feel like they should never get to that point. Not this year anyway. At worst he should be a 13/14 forward. I think he's shown enough in the AHL and the early stint in the NHL to warrant the extended look. His on ice performance would have to be really really terrible for me to get behind the risk of losing him on waivers. If can't break through and you want to slip him through waivers next fall around the end of training camp, fine. Right now I still view him as an asset. I think sending him down would be poor asset management, even if it's what might be best for the player.
He only has 132 games as a pro under his belt. I feel like there are a lot of people who judge him by whether he scores a goal or not. I actually think he's had a few really good games this season (For a guy playing 9 minutes a night in a depth role). Getting on the body, drawing penalties, winning footraces etc. Also some forgettable moments, but I think the bar may be a little too high for some. Acciari or Kuraly do the same thing and some are singing their praises. I don't think either of those two are particularly intelligent defensively or possess great hockey sense, but they play hard and people recognize it because really that's all that's expected. It will be interesting to see where his career goes. I don't think it takes much for a player like that to changes sights on their projected NHL outlook, but it seems a lot of guys are stuck in their ways. He has to recognize that now, given that he's been passed by Bjork, DeBrusk, and probably Heinen, he'll have to become a quality bottom-6 player before he can become a top-6 player.
PlayMakers
Moderator
Maybe you're right OD, I'll have to look for that in the next game... but I'm not sure that what you're talking about has nothing to do with who he plays with. Hull and Neely had Oates. Glen Murray had Joe Thornton. These guys carried the puck or held/protected the puck and bought time for those shooters to get to the quiet places. Again, how many goals do you think Glen Murray would have scored with Greg Campbell as his center?
On the 4th line, Vatrano isn't playing with guys who hold the puck and look to pass. Usually, that line is forechecking or trying to win the puck. You have to gain possession before you can get open. And even with that, he's had chances where he's gotten behind the D, he's got open for shots in front. He seems to lack confidence right now because every time I've seen him get open for a good chance he's put it wide.
ODAAT
Registered User
If Vatrano finds those spots on the ice to get himself open for a shot, even a 4th liner is capable of hitting the tape
b in vancouver
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- Jul 28, 2005
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I use Hull as an example quite often myself when talking about players like Vatrano.
Brett Hull was simply amazing at finding the soft spots in the offensive zone. - It's such an under-rated skill. Wasn't the best skater, never went into a corner in his career, wasn't a great passer and can't remember him deking anyone out - but would float in and out of the circles causing separation. And he only needed a bit to get his shot off as his release was lightning fast and lethal.
Vatrano has to work on that skill and he could put up a lot of goals. If I could think of the best fit for him (not on the Bruins) it would've been with The Sedins during their heyday. Two players whom could cycle all day long and all he would have to do is slip in and out of coverage and bury his chances. - where he wouldn't touch the puck that much, but most of those would be shots.
Anyways, too early to give up on him but he has to work on that 'Brett Hull' part of his game. I'm full of double-standards and contradictions - but think some players have to work on their weaknesses (i.e.. Spooner) while others have to work on the strengths that got them into the NHL - Vatrano. I wouldn't mind seeing him play a few games where he takes it easier, tries to do a bit less, and just kinda lets the play/puck come to him - and shoot.
b in vancouver
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Usually I'd agree 100% with that - but at the moment I want him trying the opposite approach for a few games. - you'd need the coaches and line mates on board of course - but just want him to slow down a bit.
Blowfish
Count down ...
I want him to succeed but 8 games 0 assists 0 goals and a minus 1. He hustles and is pushed around allot. That's my take so far. I prefer Czarnik be playing.
LSCII
Cup driven
If it's a choice between he and Czarnik for 6-7 minutes per night, I'd take Vatrano. I'd prefer Czarnik in the AHL getting way more minutes than a few throwaway shifts a period.
I think Vatrano's earned another few games and I think his confidence is growing nicely right now. He's consistently impacting the game with the forecheck and his speed in general, finally got a chance to take a real shot on net last game, threw a couple of hits, broke up several opponent possessions. I don't think any of the alternatives will be much of an upgrade and will likely be a step back at least for a while.
Once he gets an ugly goal, the prettier ones will likely come back. Just needs an ugly one. I keep him in.
Alan Ryan
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- Jun 1, 2006
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New article on Vatrano:
Cassidy was asked where on the alphabet he saw Vatrano’s game.
“It’s trending toward A,” said Cassidy. “He affected the play with his foot speed on the forecheck, he got to some loose pucks, he had some chances on net. All positives, things we look for every night.
“He’s a guy that’s still learning, growing his game in that regard so we have patience with him there, but we’d like him to bring the other stuff on a consistent basis. . . . He’s a guy that’s used to being a sniper for lack of a better term and he does have a great release. But let’s get to the top of the crease when it’s warranted. Those are the things we’re trying to build in and he’s buying in, and as a result we’re all noticing him a little more.”
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/...ok_frank_vatrano_closer_to_finding_his_a_game
Cassidy was asked where on the alphabet he saw Vatrano’s game.
“It’s trending toward A,” said Cassidy. “He affected the play with his foot speed on the forecheck, he got to some loose pucks, he had some chances on net. All positives, things we look for every night.
“He’s a guy that’s still learning, growing his game in that regard so we have patience with him there, but we’d like him to bring the other stuff on a consistent basis. . . . He’s a guy that’s used to being a sniper for lack of a better term and he does have a great release. But let’s get to the top of the crease when it’s warranted. Those are the things we’re trying to build in and he’s buying in, and as a result we’re all noticing him a little more.”
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/...ok_frank_vatrano_closer_to_finding_his_a_game
GloryDaze4877
Barely Irrelevant
I’m 180 degrees from you on Vatrano. You reference his stats, but neglect to acknowledge that his linemates have been less than stellar offensive players. He didn’t forget how to shoot/score. I believe if you put Vatrano with a Krejci type C, he would score, but the B’s wanted him to Round out his game.
The last few games, his forecheck has been good, as has his backcheck. He’s getting in on guys and forcing turnovers. He needs to continue to do that sort of think and then when DK returns, put him on the left side of Backes and Heinen. I believe the points will come.
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- Feb 3, 2009
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If he keeps working his butt off, points will likely come and he’ll be an NHLer. Maybe with the Bruins, who knows, but things are looking good for him.
Maybe i ovetvalued Frankie V..I felt hed be a shoe in for 30 -35 goals in the nhl. Quick accurate release knows the open spots but just not happening This guy strikes me as a nhler who gets traded say to Vegas and scores over 30 consistently.
Come on Frankie you have a knack for Mesh. Get it on....
Come on Frankie you have a knack for Mesh. Get it on....
- Feb 3, 2009
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Averaging 8 shots a game in the AHL made him a legend. Averaging 8 shots a game in the NHL is improbable. If he averages 4,he could be good for 20-25. I'd get him PP time.
BruinsBtn
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- Dec 24, 2006
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What? The guy has one of the quickest releases in the NHL. Are you sure you're not confusing him with Ryder or Horton?
bob27
Grzelcyk is a top pairing defenceman
- Apr 2, 2015
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He'd get a lot more praise from his recent performances if he was never marketed as a scorer. He skates well, is tenacious and gritty, throws pucks to the net like a machine gun and hasn't looked terrible in his own zone. I don't have any issues with him on the 4th line. I would like to see him get a chance on the 2nd PP unit though. It's tough for him to get over his scoring drought if he only gets to play 8-10 minutes per game with offensively limited linemates.
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