Confirmed with Link: Francis out as GM - Don Waddell named GM 5/8/18

garnetpalmetto

Jerkministrator
Jul 12, 2004
12,476
11,842
Durham, NC
And multiple Stanley Cups.

Like it or not, JR knows how to build a winner in a closing window, damn the cost. That dude got the Carolina Freaking Hurricanes to two Stanley Cup finals. As the years go by, that feels more and more like a goddamned miracle.

And then those multiple Stanley Cups are offset by years and years of rebuilding because he left the cupboard bare in selling off picks and prospects for whatever trade deadline talent of marginal utility (really? A 1st rounder for Ryan Reaves?) he think swill push the team over the top.
 

NotOpie

"Puck don't lie"
Jun 12, 2006
9,282
17,835
North Carolina
People also tend to construct hierarchies based on pay grade so maybe if he wants a committee making decisions he wants to pay them similar salaries.

I've seen the "committee" comment a few times and that's not how I understood the proposed process. I think it simply is, "you've got good people in place providing you with great information" and you damn well better use that information effectively. In essence the green light and red light decisions should be no-brainers. You earn your GM pay on the yellow light stuff. Dundon also said he values experience, knowledge, and hockey know how. To me, what that boils down to is, a reduced amount of "gut" decisions. And when those gut decisions go against the evidence, you better have a good argument as to why.

It sounded far more like, we're going to give you all the data and knowledge resources we can. We're going to build a logical decision-making structure so that many, if not most, of the decisions are straight forward. The tougher ones are going to be on you and that's where you should spend your time...oh, and you'll have to explain yourself for all those decisions, both good and bad.

It's not just me, right? That answer was nonsense.

I didn't read it like that. I read it more about desire and heart. But I also got the sense that it was a subtle dig at the coaches, especially that last line.

The guy has a go-kart track. In his house. Cheap isn't in his DNA.

The guy built a golf club so that he could host a PGA major championship.

Having said that, I think we'll be surprised at the budgetary decisions. If we, by some miracle, sign a John Tavares, the budget will get cut in other places. My guess is we'll see Lindholm and Hanifin signed to new deals (Lindy likely gets Rask money and Hanifin a bridge in the neighborhood of $3 million a year for two or 3 years). I expect both Teravainen and Aho to get locked up long term. Ultimately that's somewhere between $14 million and $16 million in cap space that gets eaten up. That's why I think we'll see lower impact UFAs signed (Think JVR or Kane type of guys) and/or a trade that sends out Rasks or some other comparable salary for a higher salary in return.

My thought is expect a bump of about $10 million in additional salary next season. I find it highly unlikely that we re-up both Skinner and Faulk. My guess is one gets done but not both.

And then those multiple Stanley Cups are offset by years and years of rebuilding because he left the cupboard bare in selling off picks and prospects for whatever trade deadline talent of marginal utility (really? A 1st rounder for Ryan Reaves?) he think swill push the team over the top.

I'm guessing there are a number of teams who would trade a decade of futility for a Stanley Cup. It is still the greatest sports moment of my fandom.
 

Ole Gil

Registered User
May 9, 2009
5,703
8,898
It puts the question: what is a Stanley Cup worth? How long is it worth suffering?

If the Penguins haven't traded any of their future #1s, maybe it's worth it. Once it becomes clear that the Pens window has closed, maybe they can be terrible for a while during a serious rebuild.

We know what doesn't work: finishing 18th every year.

The catch with the Penguins, is when their window closes, if they're shrewd, they can move Malkin and Crosby, and get 4! 2nd round picks, and 2 Saraala's. But they probably have another 5 years of winning left. Maybe longer.
 

CandyCanes

Caniac turned Jerkiac
Jan 8, 2015
7,206
24,832
And then those multiple Stanley Cups are offset by years and years of rebuilding because he left the cupboard bare in selling off picks and prospects for whatever trade deadline talent of marginal utility (really? A 1st rounder for Ryan Reaves?) he think swill push the team over the top.

I wonder if JR would of been able to retain the success of those 2002 & 2006 teams if we had an owner that was willing to spend to the cap. I was young so I don't really remember what went down after those success seasons.
 

Navin R Slavin

Fifth line center
Jan 1, 2011
16,215
63,665
Durrm NC
I wonder if JR would of been able to retain the success of those 2002 & 2006 teams if we had an owner that was willing to spend to the cap. I was young so I don't really remember what went down after those success seasons.

Maybe. But we also kind of screwed ourselves with no-trade deals and so on. Different situation.
 

A Star is Burns

Formerly Azor Aho
Sponsor
Dec 6, 2011
12,377
39,472
The cap ceiling was $39 million the year we won, and $44 million the following year. Considering that, and being the first team having to deal with everyone wanting to get paid coming off a cup year with a low cap, it could have been done better, but it was going to be tough no matter what. Not to mention key players like Stillman and Kaberle had shoulder surgeries that put them out for some time if memory serves.

However, we saw what JR did when spending almost to the cap after a good season in 08-09. And while that team caught lightning in a bottle to get to the Conference Finals, JR should have been able to build on that to at least keep them in the playoffs, but he made a lot of poor decisions, even though some of them looked good at the time.
 

Bub

I like griping
Jul 5, 2006
2,122
5,951
Maine
Wtf I go away for a few days and you're all still here? Give it up. Shoo. Beat it. Go play some mini golf or grow a garden or something.

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Buenos Necas

lets go canes
Jul 18, 2009
2,728
1,894
Raleigh, NC
I would have been very happy with Fenton, but it makes sense that he wouldn't leave. Nashville is at the peak of their competitiveness and he's been there since the beginning, feels simliar to the Eric DeCosta situation with the Ravens. Guys like him and Brisebois can be choosy. I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up being Gilman simply because he's the only candidate not currently employed.
 

DaveG

Noted Jerk
Apr 7, 2003
51,239
48,720
Winston-Salem NC
I would have been very happy with Fenton, but it makes sense that he wouldn't leave. Nashville is at the peak of their competitiveness and he's been there since the beginning, feels simliar to the Eric DeCosta situation with the Ravens. Guys like him and Brisebois can be choosy. I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up being Gilman simply because he's the only candidate not currently employed.
In a crazy way though that might not be a bad thing. Gilman, at least from everything I've read, was probably my 2nd choice candidate behind Fenton, even ahead of Futa.
 

Siludin

Registered User
Dec 9, 2010
7,347
5,279
Can someone she'd some light as to why Gilman is currently unemployed
Gillis and Gilman were in the bad-boys-of-NHL-management club, rather than the old-boys club.

Gillis was an ex-agent and I think there was a lot of bad blood between his group and the traditional circles (Toronto, New York, Boston, Philly, etc).

It's likely Gilman's name is still too closely associated with the Gillis regime. He also hasn't been a full-time GM before, and I think that's the job he is looking for at this point, and those jobs are hard to get even for the best applicants. I am sure an Ass. GM role is out there for him if he wants it, but he probably wants to put a cap on his career in a top role.

This is purely speculation.
 

Siludin

Registered User
Dec 9, 2010
7,347
5,279
I should add that Gilman also hasn't been known as a talent evaluator or an advanced stats guy so much, but more of a gamification-of-roster-management type of guy. My perception of Gilman is one where he is more likely to bring a Nash equilibrium game matrix into a board room than a scouting report. You want to surround him with a good scouting staff.
 

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