Confirmed with Link: Flames sign Nicklas Grossmann [1 yr, $575k]

[Kahvi]

http://flamesnation.ca/2016/10/13/why-the-flames-signed-nicklas-grossmann

This article helps explain it.

I was going to write something about why not just call someone from AHL, but this actually makes sense

My initial reaction to learning this quirk was “Why not just call up someone from the farm to fill that extra space?†Well, as it turns out, nobody comes that cheap. Any call up from Stockton would put the Flames over the salary cap, thus the need to sign somebody from the outside to a very specific deal.

 

[Anglesmith]

That is really fascinating. Thanks for sharing it.

 

[Calculon]

That goes a long way in explaining why exactly Grossmann got not only a contract but a league minimum one-way deal. It also may clarify Treliving's comments about not keeping eight defencemen up for very long.

But if all of that's the case, Grossmann won't be waived and sent down until the Flames have a reason to use the LTIR cap relief. So until a trade happens where the Flames add salary or a couple of short term injuries force them to recall some prospects, they'll bank that ~8K.

But nothing can explain why Grossmann actually dressed though.

Kind of funny that yesterday's game was a microcosm of the entire of last year; start behind the eight ball, claw their way back to respectability before stumbling and falling off a cliff. Compounded with a scrambling defence, poor goaltending and questionable roster choices.

 

[Anglesmith]

That goes a long way in explaining why exactly Grossmann got not only a contract but a league minimum one-way deal. It also may clarify Treliving's comments about not keeping eight defencemen up for very long.

But if all of that's the case, Grossmann won't be waived and sent down until the Flames have a reason to use the LTIR cap relief. So until a trade happens where the Flames add salary or a couple of short term injuries force them to recall some prospects, they'll bank that ~8K.

But nothing can explain why Grossmann actually dressed though.

Kind of funny that yesterday's game was a microcosm of the entire of last year; start behind the eight ball, claw their way back to respectability before stumbling and falling off a cliff. Compounded with a scrambling defence, poor goaltending and questionable roster choices.

The only explanation is if there was a question of cap circumvention. If the Flames signed Grossman to get to the cap and then waived him before he ever played a game, that would be extremely suspicious. Him playing puts any hint of that to bed.

 

[tfong]

I guess that makes sense why we had to deal with Grossman lol.

 

[Dertell]

http://flamesnation.ca/2016/10/13/why-the-flames-signed-nicklas-grossmann

This article helps explain it.

But until they waive him, they gain 0 cap space because his salary still count on the NHL roster. And they played him, which they didn't have to.

 

[Anglesmith]

If Treliving was really quoted as saying he "added a contract to help the salary cap situation," then it seems like it's basically confirmed. That makes no sense under any other circumstances.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

If Treliving was really quoted as saying he "added a contract to help the salary cap situation," then it seems like it's basically confirmed. That makes no sense under any other circumstances.

If it was that needed, why not just run a 22 man roster? It doesn't make sense.

 

[Lunatik]

That is really fascinating. Thanks for sharing it.

Ithe part about him playing so the league downfall shenanigans is still a huge steaming pile of horse ****. If the league wanted an explanation then all they'd have to say is "we want some insurance in case the rookie isn't ready." Teams are allowed to sign depth defensemen

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Ithe part about him playing so the league downfall shenanigans is still a huge steaming pile of horse ****. If the league wanted an explanation then all they'd have to say is "we want some insurance in case the rookie isn't ready." Teams are allowed to sign depth defensemen

I think playing him removes all possibility of the league questioning it, whereas if he had never stepped on the ice, there's a risk someone takes notice.

(Thanks Wideman)

 

[Lunatik]

I think playing him removes all possibility of the league questioning it, whereas if he had never stepped on the ice, there's a risk someone takes notice.

(Thanks Wideman)

Or you play him when someone is sick or hurt like all teams do with depth defensemen, let's be honest here it's nothing more than Flames nation making **** up like they usually do.

 

[Anglesmith]

Or you play him when someone is sick or hurt like all teams do with depth defensemen, let's be honest here it's nothing more than Flames nation making **** up like they usually do.

According to the theory, though, they're planning on sending him down very soon. Not much chance for that if that's the case.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

We signed Grossmann so we could add Hampus Lindholm

 

[Body Checker]

It's just one game. I thought he looked quicker than I was expecting. I think the D pairs are screwed up because of the RH shots. On the 2nd goal it was the classic lack of coverage by a forward. See it all the time at all levels, hard to find those smart defensively conscious forwards that know to drop back if the dman rushes in.

I like that he's so solid physically, just a tank. Problem was Gulutzan going 6 deep on D. Need to go 24 mins 1st pair, 22 mins 2nd pair, 14 mins 3rd pair.

But you can't put Grossman with Engelland or Wideman. Need Brodie/Giordano, then Hamilton with a left shot and then Engelland. I still like Wideman but the defence is just a little out of sorts right now.

 

[Mr Snrub]

I think playing him removes all possibility of the league questioning it, whereas if he had never stepped on the ice, there's a risk someone takes notice.

(Thanks Wideman)

Maybe it was rigged that he'd give away those two chances so if the league came knocking Gully could point to them and say "see, who in their right mind would keep playing this guy??"

Actually though I agree with the posters saying he definitely was not noticeably bad the whole game.

 

[Lunatik]

According to the theory, though, they're planning on sending him down very soon. Not much chance for that if that's the case.

It's a half brained theory, like everything that comes from that site.

 

[Anglesmith]

It's a half brained theory, like everything that comes from that site.

Perhaps, but at this point it is not demonstrably false.

One thing it doesn't explain, though, is why they have to wait to put Smid on LTIR.

 

[Lunatik]

Perhaps, but at this point it is not demonstrably false.

One thing it doesn't explain, though, is why they have to wait to put Smid on LTIR.

They didn't have to wait. They could have placed him on LTIR on Tuesday. My understanding about LTIR is that teams have 2 options.

Option 1:
Place player in LTIR the day prior to the season opening. This allows you to exceed to cap on the opening day roster. But the amount you are over becomes a set limit as the injured player is considered to be replaced. For example if yu only go over by $1 million, you cannot exceed $1 million the rest of the year.

Option 2:
Place player on LTIR opening day, or later. This allows the team to exceed the cap by the entire amount of the injured players contract while they are injured.

This is why I think the article is just a giant pile of ********, because it's almost like they are combining the two options. If Smid is placed on LTIR anytime during the season the Flames can exceed the cap by $3.5 million if they need it. It literally makes no sense to sign Grossmann just to get close when he could be demoted tomorrow (well after clearing waivers but you get my point) and replace him with a $4 million player.

The bottom line is the Flames wanted to be under the cap and not us LTIR because if you are under the cap your space later in the year compounds, but when you use LTIR you are over the cap and that space does not compound. Right now we have $8,666 in cap space, that will compound to next to nothing by the deadline. If anything by signing Grossmann the Flames are ****ing themselves out of cap space later in the year because having 583k in cap space right now would amass to close to a million in cap space by the deadline. Why would Treliving be willing to do that just to maximize LTIR use? So I have absolutely zero doubt that this theory is absolutely 100% ********.

It is as simple as Treliving not wanting to use LTIR unless there are more injuries.

 

[Dertell]

I think playing him removes all possibility of the league questioning it, whereas if he had never stepped on the ice, there's a risk someone takes notice.

(Thanks Wideman)

But then why even say in an interview you signed him to help the cap space situation?

 

[Kahvi]

It is as simple as Treliving not wanting to use LTIR unless there are more injuries.

Is there any specific value in this (in rules), or is it more like a personal preference?

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I will admit that Grossman had a brutal first period. But anyone who thinks he was that bad for the entire game is just hating on him for the sake of it. I don't "like" Grossman, but I don't hate him. He's a lesser Engelland and not by much, the only difference is really their skating.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

I will admit that Grossman had a brutal first period. But anyone who thinks he was that bad for the entire game is just hating on him for the sake of it. I don't "like" Grossman, but I don't hate him. He's a lesser Engelland and not by much, the only difference is really their skating.

Dude he was like 3/15 on breakout passes. That's not getting the job done.

 

[Anglesmith]

They didn't have to wait. They could have placed him on LTIR on Tuesday. My understanding about LTIR is that teams have 2 options.

Option 1:
Place player in LTIR the day prior to the season opening. This allows you to exceed to cap on the opening day roster. But the amount you are over becomes a set limit as the injured player is considered to be replaced. For example if yu only go over by $1 million, you cannot exceed $1 million the rest of the year.

Option 2:
Place player on LTIR opening day, or later. This allows the team to exceed the cap by the entire amount of the injured players contract while they are injured.

This is why I think the article is just a giant pile of ********, because it's almost like they are combining the two options. If Smid is placed on LTIR anytime during the season the Flames can exceed the cap by $3.5 million if they need it. It literally makes no sense to sign Grossmann just to get close when he could be demoted tomorrow (well after clearing waivers but you get my point) and replace him with a $4 million player.

The bottom line is the Flames wanted to be under the cap and not us LTIR because if you are under the cap your space later in the year compounds, but when you use LTIR you are over the cap and that space does not compound. Right now we have $8,666 in cap space, that will compound to next to nothing by the deadline. If anything by signing Grossmann the Flames are ****ing themselves out of cap space later in the year because having 583k in cap space right now would amass to close to a million in cap space by the deadline. Why would Treliving be willing to do that just to maximize LTIR use? So I have absolutely zero doubt that this theory is absolutely 100% ********.

It is as simple as Treliving not wanting to use LTIR unless there are more injuries.

According to the article, Option 2 gives you relief equal to the injured player's contract minus the cap space available. That is to say, if a team like Florida used Option 2, they would get no relief at all, because they wouldn't need it.

If true, then you can see the logic, provided they waive Grossman when they put Smid on LTIR.

So, if I have it right, Smid's AAV is $3.5M, and Grossman's contract is about $600K

Scenario A: (not signing Grossman, then putting Smid on LTIR)

They can exceed the cap by about $2.9M, and they have $600K space to start with. They can add $3.5M total.

Scenario B: (signing Grossman, putting Smid on LTIR and waiving Grossman)

They can exceed the cap by about $3.5M, and they have $600K space after waiving Grossman. They can add $4.1M total.

I'm unsure of how much cap space waiving Grossman would open up, if it's the full amount or not, but as long as it is more than zero, you can see the logic.

 

[InfinityIggy]

I will admit that Grossman had a brutal first period. But anyone who thinks he was that bad for the entire game is just hating on him for the sake of it. I don't "like" Grossman, but I don't hate him. He's a lesser Engelland and not by much, the only difference is really their skating.

I can't really point to anything in particular, or any particular plays where he was a positive factor though. He just did not look like he was an NHL player in my opinion.

 

[Anglesmith]

I can't really point to anything in particular, or any particular plays where he was a positive factor though. He just did not look like he was an NHL player in my opinion.

I can point to two. Both instances of squishing the player with the puck hard against the boards, and separating the puck in the process. One was against either Kassian or Pouliot, so not small guys, either.