#FIRECHIA

[CantHaveTkachev]

It's called depth, yet again. Tbot sucked once before, and we had a back-up cover for him just fine. That's what legit back-ups do.. This time..not so much

If we acquired a legit dman, he could have easily covered for Klef. Teams do it all the time. We however relied on Auvitu and Gryba

Now we have Davidson(who was crap in MTL), but is back to his old form in Edm..and the results show. What a concept. Start the year with another top 4 dman and Klef's stumbles are not nearly as detrimental

Many posters screamed for Russell to be upgraded. Had he been, Klef's regression would be less of a talking point. Many saw the the impact Sek's had on Russell

yup, Chia "Bet" on his depth (to an extent) and it failed

but I'm not willing to fire him until I see how the full season plays out...especially since we don't have Larsson or Sekera (half our top 4) in the line-up

 

[Soundwave]

yup, Chia "Bet" on his depth (to an extent) and it failed

but I'm not willing to fire him until I see how the full season plays out...especially since we don't have Larsson or Sekera (half our top 4) in the line-up

I'm fine with waiting until the end of the season, but if there is no playoffs, there should be serious consequences for that. None of this hand waving stuff.

Playoffs or bust this year Chia, you made your bets and your bed and you can accept the consequences that come with that if it doesn't work out.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Sure it does, having a second possession dominant player tilts the ice the other way and draws penalties for us.

didn't help in 2015-16 or previous years
didn't help the Devils last year...Schneider had his worst season in years last year
(hint, Hall is terrible in his own end)

 

[Soundwave]

didn't help in 2015-16 or previous years
didn't help the Devils last year...Schneider had his worst season in years last year
(hint, Hall is terrible in his own end)

So if the Devils make the playoffs this year they'll have made it 1/2 years with the "terrible in his own end" Hall as their best player. Who else is great on that roster? Hischer will be good one day but right now he's on pace for like 13 goals. They have a fraction of the talent the Oilers gave Chiarelli on day one.

The Oilers meanwhile 1/3 with McDavid + Draisaitl. At what point is this fan base allowed to say "enough is enough"?

Why should 1/3 be acceptable here when even New Jersey being led by Taylor Hall with all his warts (as you are so eager to remind us of) can accomplish the same thing that we did. Why should we accept that? How low must our expectations go to? Why is unreasonable to say this is not acceptable for a team with Connor McDavid and someone needs to be held to accout here?

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

So if the Devils make the playoffs this year they'll have made it 1/2 years with the "terrible in his own end" Hall as their best player. Who else is great on that roster? Heischer looks like one of the weaker 1st overalls and then a whole lot of what? They have a fraction of the talent the Oilers gave Chiarelli on day one.

Will Butcher and Jesper Bratt have contributed immensely there too

The Oilers meanwhile 1/3 with McDavid + Draisaitl. At what point is this fan base allowed to say "enough is enough"?

so what we should do is what the Panthers did and blow out the whole operation

based on what Gallant is doing in Vegas, that Panthers regret that decision everyday

 

[Soundwave]

Will Butcher and Jesper Bratt have contributed immensely there too


so what we should do is what the Panthers did and blow out the whole operation

based on what Gallant is doing in Vegas, that Panthers regret that decision everyday

How do all these teams figure it out? Will Butcher and Jesper Bratt are 1st overall picks?

How is it that everyone else is competent but this franchise cannot figure anything out even after like 4 1st overalls, and several more top 10 picks, tons of cap room, getting a freebie in Justin Schultz ... why is it only we cannot figure this out.

IMO it the management through and through that has failed over and over again.

I am not willing to give Chia/McLellan unlimited chances because Gallant is a coach who did a good job, and his firing had a lot of to do with other off-ice politics too. That team was above .500 when he was fired (the Panthers), the Oilers haven't been above .500 since game 2 of the season.

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

so only "awards" count?

Unless you like moral victories, yes.

I said they had home-ice advantage for the first time in a quarter century, which is a feat unto itself...but I guess since they didn't win an award for that, it gets dismissed by you

Considering they're in no position to repeat that accomplishment this year, it's absolutely worth dismissing as a one-off.

huh? the Preds were 7-5-2 before the Turris trade..seems to me his "bets" were working out just fine
probably made the Turris trade cause Johansson started off so horribly

Different GMs have different expectations. Some, like Poile, recognize when their teams should be contenders, and do everything necessary to uphold that standard.

Then there's Chiarelli.

I'm sure you were right in predicting this teams struggles in the summer right? right?

Absolutely I was. I don't have the reputation I do as a "Chia hater" for nothing. It was obvious as early as August that there were fundamental issues he needed to address, and ultimately didn't

little early to rate Chia draft picks

When they're extremely underwhelming when compared to the likes of Barzal, DeBrincat, Girard and even Tolvanen, I guess you'd say that, yes.

and now they're one of the better teams in the league

I guess Maurice just learned how to coach again?

I suppose the one redeeming element of your nonsensical viewpoint is that you're at least consistent. The Jets have won exactly nothing either, and deserve no merits or platitudes. But sure, go on and anoint them best team to have a player named Byfuglien or something I guess.

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

Will Butcher and Jesper Bratt have contributed immensely there too

If only we had a competent GM who could have recognized those players for the talents they were/are...

 

[bobbythebrain]

So if the Devils make the playoffs this year they'll have made it 1/2 years with the "terrible in his own end" Hall as their best player. Who else is great on that roster? Hischer will be good one day but right now he's on pace for like 13 goals. They have a fraction of the talent the Oilers gave Chiarelli on day one.

The Oilers meanwhile 1/3 with McDavid + Draisaitl. At what point is this fan base allowed to say "enough is enough"?

Why should 1/3 be acceptable here when even New Jersey being led by Taylor Hall with all his warts (as you are so eager to remind us of) can accomplish the same thing that we did. Why should we accept that? How low must our expectations go to? Why is unreasonable to say this is not acceptable for a team with Connor McDavid and someone needs to be held to accout here?

Hischier is ridiculous in his own end for his age. He probably looks like the best pick. His attention to defense right now is sick for his age

 

[Soundwave]

Hischier is ridiculous in his own end for his age. He probably looks like the best pick. His attention to defense right now is sick for his age

Yes. He's a solid player. Where's Connor McDavid on their roster? Leon Draisaitl?

How is they might be going to the playoffs while this franchise can't figure anything out.

It's a wonder sometimes the management of this group remembers to put their pants on before going to work.

It also shows how 1 playoff berth is nothing to be freaking proud about. Calgary's made it 2/3 with Gaudreau. Toronto 2/2 with Matthews. Looks like Winnipeg will be 1/2 with Laine who is quite frankly probably a good notch below McDavid. Pittsburgh has made it every year with Crosby since his rookie year. Same with Kane. Same with Ovy.

New Jersey might make it in Hall's second year there with him as the best player on the team.

Meanwhile in Edmonton ... excuse, excuse, excuse, need more time, Craig ... err Chia's on it, etc. etc. etc. Just complete garbage. If I worked for this franchise and we had to go to the draft lottery again as one of the non-playoff teams, I would be so damn embarrassed to show up there.

This franchise cannot even keep up with the Flames, who are a borderline mediocre franchise themselves even with Connor McDavid, yet we are now being told to be patient and that this time it'll all work out. No. I'm not lowering my expectations any further.

I'm not expecting Pittsburgh or Chicago level competence here, I'm not asking for Anaheim or Washington level even, but I refuse to accept that being below the likes of Calgary and Toronto who had a fraction of the assets and high draft picks we have had and still get manage to consistently get better results. Someone needs to be responsible for this and that starts with the GM.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Yes. He's a solid player. Where's Connor McDavid on their roster? Leon Draisaitl?

How is they might be going to the playoffs while this franchise can't figure anything out.

It's a wonder sometimes the management of this group remembers to put their pants on before going to work.

It also shows how 1 playoff berth is nothing to be freaking proud about. Calgary's made it 2/3 with Gaudreau. Toronto 2/2 with Matthews. Looks like Winnipeg will be 1/2 with Laine who is quite frankly probably a good notch below McDavid. Pittsburgh has made it every year with Crosby since his rookie year. Same with Kane. Same with Ovy.

New Jersey might make it in Hall's second year there with him as the best player on the team.

Meanwhile in Edmonton ... excuse, excuse, excuse, need more time, Craig ... err Chia's on it, etc. etc. etc. Just complete garbage. If I worked for this franchise and we had to go to the draft lottery again as one of the non-playoff teams, I would be so damn embarrassed to show up there.

This franchise cannot even keep up with the Flames, who are a borderline mediocre franchise themselves even with Connor McDavid, yet we are now being told to be patient and that this time it'll all work out. No. I'm not lowering my expectations any further.

I'm not expecting Pittsburgh or Chicago level competence here, I'm not asking for Anaheim or Washington level even, but I refuse to accept that being below the likes of Calgary and Toronto who had a fraction of the assets and high draft picks we have had is a hand-wave. Someone needs to be responsible for this and that starts with the GM.

Couldn't agree more

I was just pointing out how good Nico really is

In Chia's defense somewhat JP is starting to replace Ebs finally and Davidson is picking up some of the slack Gryba and Auvitu couldn't. But our current spot is inexcusable. Chia missed the boat by 30 games it seems and it may cost us a playoff berth. That was projected by many of us from the summer. Not missing playoffs..but a weaker roster

If we make the playoffs and trend up, I will retract much of my Chia criticism. As of now, I fully hold him responsible for the unnecessary holes he created and didn't address

I think this quote from his Boston days sums this season best "Chiarelli took a Stanley Cup-winning roster that could have been built upon, a strong, relatively youthful corr, & did nothing to make it better."

 

[Soundwave]

Couldn't agree more

I was just pointing out how good Nico really is

In Chia's defense somewhat JP is starting to replace Ebs finally and Davidson is picking up some of the slack Gryba and Auvitu couldn't. But our current spot is inexcusable. Chia missed the boat by 30 games it seems and it may cost us a playoff berth. That was projected by many of us from the summer. Not missing playoffs..but a weaker roster

If we make the playoffs and trend up, I will retract much of my Chia criticism. As of now, I fully hold him responsible for the unnecessary holes he created and didn't address

I think this quote from his Boston days sums it best "Chiarelli took a Stanley Cup-winning roster that could have been built upon, a strong, relatively youthful corr, & did nothing to make it better."

If we make it, even though I have misgivings with his management philosophy (losing trades is OK, throwing cap around like it's free Halloween candy is a great way to do stuff) I will be OK with Chia staying.

But if they don't ... I expect real consequences and that means him being gone. No ifs, ands, or buts. Three full summers to build a team with more assets to begin with that Calgary or Toronto and to have worse results is not acceptable. We deserve better than that garbage.

That's fair IMO. If this franchise cannot even keep up with the f***ing Flames and Leafs after being gifted a generational player on top of all they had before ... enough is enough. The GM is responsible for building the roster and he must be held to account.

2/3 years in the playoffs with McDavid should be a bare minimum expectation. Like I've said making the playoffs itself isn't some huge task, we have set the bar so low that we act like it's climbing Mount Everest. The only thing a playoff berth proves is you are not of one of the crappy half of the league. Just by mathematical chance, lol, in a league where 50%+ of the teams make the playoffs every year, the Oilers should be able to make the playoffs at least once every 3-5 years even if a literal monkey was running the team randomly pressing levers when trade/sign/draft opportunities came up.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Unless you like moral victories, yes.

lol

Considering they're in no position to repeat that accomplishment this year, it's absolutely worth dismissing as a one-off.

how very bold of you to dismiss it now as a one-off...take a lot guts to do that at this point in the season

Different GMs have different expectations. Some, like Poile, recognize when their teams should be contenders, and do everything necessary to uphold that standard.

Then there's Chiarelli.

Poile's team have been underwhelming for years before last year...

Absolutely I was. I don't have the reputation I do as a "Chia hater" for nothing. It was obvious as early as August that there were fundamental issues he needed to address, and ultimately didn't

link?

When they're extremely underwhelming when compared to the likes of Barzal, DeBrincat, Girard and even Tolvanen, I guess you'd say that, yes.

why is Barzal there? lol
so again like I said, little early to judge the picks

I suppose the one redeeming element of your nonsensical viewpoint is that you're at least consistent. The Jets have won exactly nothing either, and deserve no merits or platitudes. But sure, go on and anoint them best team to have a player named Byfuglien or something I guess.

so because they've never won any awards, they can go credit of the position they're in?
solid argument you have there lmao

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

If only we had a competent GM who could have recognized those players for the talents they were/are...

like bringing in guys like Sekera, Benning, Maroon, Lucic, Russell...

 

[bobbythebrain]

like bringing in guys like Sekera, Benning, Maroon, Lucic, Russell...

Completely irrelevant this summer. Most people don't quite working cuz they had 1 good year

You do REALIZE Chia got fired AFTER he won a cup?

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Completely irrelevant this summer. Most people don't quite working cuz they had 1 good year

You do REALIZE Chia got fired AFTER he won a cup?

so did Ray Shero

 

[bobbythebrain]

so did Ray Shero

There's a reason Rowdy Burns asked Cole Trickle to drive his car..and not Buck Bretherton

 

[booyakasha]

like bringing in guys like Sekera, Benning, Maroon, Lucic, Russell...

he paid Lucic an obscene amount of money to come here...any body can do that.
as well, he traded Hall, Eberle, a 1st and a 2nd and all he got in retun will be Larsson?...that's pretty f***ing bad.
in fact, that]'s really f**ikng bad...and as Mr.Heenan ponted out above, he got turfed after winning the SC.....that's quite telling.

 

[booyakasha]

so did Ray Shero

Ray Shero was able to turn an Adam Larsson into a Taylor Hall, and have his team in a playoff position...
Chia was able to turn Tatyor Hall into Adam Larsson and have his team into draft lottery position.

 

[Soundwave]

he paid Lucic an obscene amount of money to come here...any body can do that.
as well, he traded Hall, Eberle, a 1st and a 2nd and all he got in retun will be Larsson?...that's pretty f***ing bad.
in fact, that]'s really f**ikng bad...and as Mr.Heenan ponted out above, he got turfed after winning the SC.....that's quite telling.

I think Chiarelli and McLellan both deserve some blame.

How the hell do you even turn all of Hall, Eberle, Schultz, Yakupov into basically just Adam Larsson (once we inevitably dump Strome for nothing)?

I know those players weren't perfect but is asset management even given half a thought with either Chia or McLellan? Do they not understand you are damaging a franchise and failing a franchise by throwing away assets like it's free Halloween candy?

How is this a philosophy that really is going to work out great? Todd deserves a good deal of blame here too, why are you drowing Schultz on the top pairing when you know his confidence is shot? Why are you not giving Nail Yakupov some time with McDavid in a meaningless/lost season in 15-16? You might have some better players to work with today if you got something back for either of those two, is that completely lost on McLellan?

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Ray Shero was able to turn an Adam Larsson into a Taylor Hall, and have his team in a playoff position...
Chia was able to turn Tatyor Hall into Adam Larsson and have his team into draft lottery position.

How did Shero and the Devils do with Hall in the lineup last year ?
What about Chia and Larsson?
No credit?

 

[booyakasha]

How did Shero and the Devils do with Hall in the lineup last year ?
What about Chia and Larsson?
No credit?

chia got ripped off in thr Hall for Larsson trade.
I have made my opinion known on that..pete will give up a 20 spot for a quarter if he's short at the parking meter.
in the end he'll make it sound like he came out the winner, but he pays out his asss often.

 

[bobbythebrain]

How did Shero and the Devils do with Hall in the lineup last year ?
What about Chia and Larsson?
No credit?

You are trying to make linear arguments it seems

NJ last year is irrelevant. They had no depth

This year they added Lovejoy, Stafford, Hayes and Boyle

If they make playoffs this year and decide next year to trade off Kyle Palmeiri for scraps and resign Dalton Prout to a 16 mil contract..then you can make that argument

Anyway, my bet is that Shero doesn't decide that this years success is the result of a great hockey team, and next year he will work to improve the team vs stripping away and hoping for internal growth to carry them to the next level

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

chia got ripped off in thr Hall for Larsson trade.
I have made my opinion known on that..pete will give up a 20 spot for a quarter if he's short at the parking meter.
in the end he'll make it sound like he came out the winner, but he pays out his asss often.

you have so why keep bringing it up

 

[booyakasha]

you have so why keep bringing it up

okay, I'll stop.