#FIRECHIA

[CantHaveTkachev]

Missing the playoffs is not necessarily the issue, it's the fact that his moves have contributed to a team with a very good core and the best player in the world on it missing the playoffs. He's had 3 years to turn a core of players that any GM in the league would dream of having into a contender and we're a lottery team right now.

One poster called someone else an idiot so now that's what all the fire Chia posters do? I've had people call me worse here for bashing Chia at the beginning of the year and some posters wanted me banned from the boards. That doesn't reflect the pro-Chia people and the majority of people in this thread have been very civil. Stick to arguing the facts instead of making sweeping generalizations about the other side.

So you admit that he's made all of those mistakes then? It's very reasonable to be upset about all of those points since they all contributed to the team's lack of success this year.

you were banned
and only got back onto the boards because of the server change in late-September

 

[booyakasha]

I like SteveF1919, and hope he continues to post for a long time.
I may not agree with everything he posts, but at least he is a critical thinker and an unbiased fan, rather than a muppet.

***and i'm not calling Canthave kachev a muppet...I think he's an awesome poster as well.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Missing the playoffs is not necessarily the issue, it's the fact that his moves have contributed to a team with a very good core and the best player in the world on it missing the playoffs. He's had 3 years to turn a core of players that any GM in the league would dream of having into a contender and we're a lottery team right now.

One poster called someone else an idiot so now that's what all the fire Chia posters do? I've had people call me worse here for bashing Chia at the beginning of the year and some posters wanted me banned from the boards. That doesn't reflect the pro-Chia people and the majority of people in this thread have been very civil. Stick to arguing the facts instead of making sweeping generalizations about the other side.

So you admit that he's made all of those mistakes then? It's very reasonable to be upset about all of those points since they all contributed to the team's lack of success this year.

There is a small but quite vocal group in this thread that have resorted to shouting others down and piling on - as for civility that seems to have been lost quite a few pages ago by this group of posters.

As for agreeing with the "mistakes", I am merely wanting to clarify the position of the Fire Chiarelli crowd because in 71 pages of posts of emotional gobbledy gook their point has become somewhat lost and now seems to be that if you want to have some patience you are part of the problem. I am trying to get the conversation back but realize it is rather pointless as the discussion is too emotional for some and some are too entrenched. Its become like talking about religion, politics, and the Taylor Hall trade (which is deeply rooted in the Fire Chiarelli anthem, as far as I see it). There is no middle ground and it causes hard feelings.

But I as you know disagree with firing him, have posted many posts on as to why. Most of the 15 points I tried to summarize are also merely opinions of the Fire Chia crowd. Opinions that can be equally refuted by the Patience with Chia crowd also using rational discussion and facts but the same few posters have piled on, called names, and made it into a shoutfest repeating the same thing over and over ad nauseam.

So yes, this is the Fire Chiarelli thread as one poster put it, after all, what did I expect to find?

So I guess the purpose of the thread is not to have civil discussion? Only for people are here to vent their hatred towards Chiarelli?

Because if that is the case what is the point of this thread?

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

The team is still miles away from a playoff position. One win does not change that.

They have a .333% win percentage at home. Even in our worst seasons were weren't that porous on home ice.

The difference is the season is not over. We are 7 points out of a playoff spot, getting our key players back, have played well the past 6, and the fix is with special teams, which is fixable.
You and the Fire Chiarelli crowd have written the season off 1/3 of the way in and demanding heads on platters.

 

[McClelland]

The difference is the season is not over. We are 7 points out of a playoff spot, getting our key players back, have played well the past 6, and the fix is with special teams, which is fixable.
You and the Fire Chiarelli crowd have written the season off 1/3 of the way in and demanding heads on platters.

I also think we can save this season, but it hasnt anything to do with Chia! McD and Talbot can save his job with a run! But we are a bottomfeeder right now, pretty much thanks to him. He almost did nothing to strenghten our depht at D and he hasnt find a Nhl level backup for us, since he dumped Gus.

You cant rely on luck with injurys as last season and that Talbot can play all 82 games like a demon. The Goaltending and playing D scrubs over their head has killed us this season, the pk has also been horrible ,we hadnt sinked so deep with depht there.

That we havent a real sniper on the team or a D who can be a threat from the point is also a problem, Shultz had been ideal to give sheltered minutes. We have alot of good defensive D in Larsson, Nurse and Russel but we need a puckmover who can shoot!

Im not saying we can do everything in a hurry but small things had saved this team from where we are today, and thats on Chiarelli!
If you so smart that you can see his bigger plan, enlight us!

 

[StevenF1919]

There is a small but quite vocal group in this thread that have resorted to shouting others down and piling on - as for civility that seems to have been lost quite a few pages ago by this group of posters.

As for agreeing with the "mistakes", I am merely wanting to clarify the position of the Fire Chiarelli crowd because in 71 pages of posts of emotional gobbledy gook their point has become somewhat lost and now seems to be that if you want to have some patience you are part of the problem. I am trying to get the conversation back but realize it is rather pointless as the discussion is too emotional for some and some are too entrenched. Its become like talking about religion, politics, and the Taylor Hall trade (which is deeply rooted in the Fire Chiarelli anthem, as far as I see it). There is no middle ground and it causes hard feelings.

But I as you know disagree with firing him, have posted many posts on as to why. Most of the 15 points I tried to summarize are also merely opinions of the Fire Chia crowd. Opinions that can be equally refuted by the Patience with Chia crowd also using rational discussion and facts but the same few posters have piled on, called names, and made it into a shoutfest repeating the same thing over and over ad nauseam.

So yes, this is the Fire Chiarelli thread as one poster put it, after all, what did I expect to find?

So I guess the purpose of the thread is not to have civil discussion? Only for people are here to vent their hatred towards Chiarelli?

Because if that is the case what is the point of this thread?

There's trolls on both sides, but you tried to generalize all of the anti-Chia posters.

Go ahead and refute all those points if you think they can be refuted. The roster is lacklustre and I wanted him gone before the season even started. He's done an incredibly poor job when he was set up for success by assets acquired from the incompetence of previous GMs.

Seems to me you've got a bit of a victim complex tbh. You're severely overstating the extent of bashing and namecalling, which is being done by both sides.

 

[CupofOil]

The difference is the season is not over. We are 7 points out of a playoff spot, getting our key players back, have played well the past 6, and the fix is with special teams, which is fixable.
You and the Fire Chiarelli crowd have written the season off 1/3 of the way in and demanding heads on platters.

I'm not in the Fire Chiarelli crowd and this season is on the brink of being over. They have to climb over a lot of teams and are 4-8 points behind all of them. Essentially they have to be 9 points better than all 4 teams ahead of them in the division (forget L.A. and Vegas, plus San Jose has played 2 less games) or if they are looking at the wild card, it gets even more complicated. Keep in mind also that there will be a lot of 3 point games as well especially later in the season as teams start tightening it up. I truly believe that they are better than a lot of these teams but the hole they dug for themselves earlier in the season is just too deep to overcome this late.

Honestly, they are going to need a long winning streak at some point just to get in the conversation, a 6-7 game winning streak minimum with no room for error for a multiple game losing streak, playoffs are just very unrealistic at this point. I don't blame people for having some faint hope but I just can't see it, I think playoff hopes are over. Would be perfectly happy to eat crow if they do the near impossible.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

....
If you so smart that you can see his bigger plan, enlight us!

I do not claim to be smart or that I can see his bigger plan. I have stated on numerous occasions I understand his rationalization behind the moves thus far, other than having no NHL backup goalie, and I do not disagree with them. The plan however as he has publicly stated requires patience and growth from within, one that is reasonable and attainable. But takes time.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

The season is far from over. Assessment of his job is and will be done at seasons end by his superiors.

Accountability, ie; the “Fire Chia now” narrative , is purposeful pessimism stemming from and fueled by the Taylor Hall trade.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

The season is far from over. Assessment of his job is and will be done at seasons end by his superiors.

Accountability, ie; the “Fire Chia now” narrative , is purposeful pessimism stemming from and fueled by the Taylor Hall trade.

For all intents and purposes yes the season is over. The Oilers would have to go on a crazy run from here on out just to make 90 points. It's not impossible but rather extremely unlikely.

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

cause nothing says "accountability" quite like firing the GM in a panic move

Claiming it's a panic move to fire a GM who is on pace to miss the playoffs two out of three years he's been on the job is as dishonest as stating Roy Moore merely finds young women attractive. In both cases, you end up sacrificing your integrity to advance a point that everyone knows is bull**** while still losing in the end.

The season is far from over.

Mathematically speaking, yes, it's over. That you're unable to form an opinion before an end-of-the-season news conference is no one's fault but your own though.

Assessment of his job is and will be done at seasons end by his superiors.

Continuing from the above, this is code for "What I think at season's end depends upon what Katz and Bobby Nicks tell me I should think". You're too afraid to conjure up an original thought lest you choose the wrong flavor of Kool-Aid and thus offend your masters.

Accountability, ie; the “Fire Chia now” narrative , is purposeful pessimism stemming from and fueled by the Taylor Hall trade.

...and the Eberle trade, both on its own and the lack of a plan afterward. And the Pouliot buyout, for the same reason. And the lack of a plan to backfill Sekera. And the inability to find a proper backup when Talbot went down.

Going back a year, there's also the Gustavsson signing, the Reinhart trade and the selection of Benson.

But sure, continue to blame it on one, single transaction. [mod]

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

For all intents and purposes yes the season is over. The Oilers would have to go on a crazy run from here on out just to make 90 points. It's not impossible but rather extremely unlikely.

It is unlikely but not impossible. Realistically they may have squandered their season with a 3-7-1 backup goalie who did not have the trust of his coach when Talbot went into a 15 game funk and when Talbot went down with injury showed he was not ready for prime time while other ailments and injuries were impacting the team.

That said, it is possible, and the assessment of Chiarelli should be done at the end of the season.

 

[Mr Positive]

It is unlikely but not impossible. Realistically they may have squandered their season with a 3-7-1 backup goalie who did not have the trust of his coach when Talbot went into a 15 game funk and when Talbot went down with injury showed he was not ready for prime time while other ailments and injuries were impacting the team.

That said, it is possible, and the assessment of Chiarelli should be done at the end of the season.

statistical likelihood is not so important when there are so many surrounding factors with our team. If we start playing at the pace of a playoff team, there's lots of time to make up ground, and we wouldn't need crazy win streaks either. We'd need a few decent runs of 4 or 5 games, and in between those we'd need a respectable pace.

Last season the Flames were basically a .500 team that had a 10 game win streak. Even though they went back to being a .500 team after that streak they still made the playoffs.

The trick is that our team needs to start winning instead of losing. If it happens soon, we have time. The x-factor for our team is that we are loaded with really good talent. It's not like the dark days of the franchise anymore.

 

[Kagomeboy]

Wow,this is getting ridiculous.I have not been a month and it wild fire in this thread.

 

[Soundwave]

I'm fine with an assesement being done at year end, but I want it to be a fair one not a "Chiarelli gets 4 years no matter what". I want them to critically look at his trades, his cap management, and the performance on the team, where they thought they should be at year 3 in comparison to other similar rebuilds.

The Flames have made the playoffs 2/3 years of the Gaudreau era.

Leafs are gonna make 2/2 years of the Matthews era.

There is no excuse for this franchise to have only one playoff appearance after three years with Connor McDavid and double the number of top 10 picks the above two franchises have had.

We deserve at minimum the same level of management that Calgary and Toronto get, who here thinks that is asking for too much? There should be consequences if all we are getting now is excuses. Not good enough. I'm not lowering my expectations to pathetic levels any more. Enough is enough.

If that's unreasonable/unfair/rash whatever. In my book it's more than fair after three years to ask for better than this. Like I said, playoffs even should not be some be all, end all, all playoffs means if you were one of the 52% of the league that makes the playoffs every year, meaning you weren't one of the bottom half of the league. How this franchise has so much trouble with that even after being gifted a generational superstar is ridiculous. Like I said we should not even be talking about playoffs like they're an "if" three years on from McLottery.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Claiming it's a panic move to fire a GM who is on pace to miss the playoffs two out of three years he's been on the job is as dishonest as stating Roy Moore merely finds young women attractive. In both cases, you end up sacrificing your integrity to advance a point that everyone knows is bull**** while still losing in the end.

I'm sure Jets fans are heartbroken Cheveldayoff is still employed as their GM despite underwhelming seasons

look at them now

 

[Drivesaitl]

First of all I'm talking about this year, in which case Talbot has not been a net positive contributor. And while he was amazing last season, Glen Sather literally came to the media and stated that he purposely gave the Oilers a discount on Talbot as a retirement gift, and nobody involved with the Oilers have ever refuted the claim. So good on Chiarelli for identifying Talbot as a talent, however he deserves less than full credit considering Sather probably could've bled him for value if he wanted judging by Chiarelli's trade history.

Larsson and Russell are not good moves. Adam Larsson is a good player, Taylor Hall is objectively better. Also, the days following the trade, multiple GMs claimed that they would have beat the offer (take that for what you will, but I personally don't doubt it). How you can consider Kris Russell and his cap crippling 4x4 a good move is beyond me.

The poster in question will ignore that Talbot was a Gift from Sather everytime. You could invite Sather to his downstairs bedroom to tell him it was gift and he would still credit Chia on accepting a gift that a GM would have to be insane not to accept.

Good post, agreed with your entire reply, please post more.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

The poster in question will ignore that Talbot was a Gift from Sather everytime. You could invite Sather to his downstairs bedroom to tell him it was gift and he would still credit Chia on accepting a gift that a GM would have to be insane not to accept.

Good post, agreed with your entire reply, please post more.

link?

 

[Drivesaitl]

link?

Linked citations 3 times before, so have others. Not doing it again. Do your own work because you've made it clear it doesn't matter when people do link the information on how we got Talbot and that other GM's were PISSED because they had offered more. You'll ignore it everytime anyway.

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

I'm sure Jets fans are heartbroken Cheveldayoff is still employed as their GM despite underwhelming seasons

look at them now

A regular season paper tiger who has yet to accomplish anything of substance in the playoffs? Yeah, sounds exactly like the team Chia has built.

That the best counter-example you can come up with is the only team to do less with similar assets in the last ten years should be an eye-opener for you. However, something tells me it won't be...

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

We deserve at minimum the same level of management that Calgary and Toronto get, who here thinks that is asking for too much? There should be consequences if all we are getting now is excuses. Not good enough. I'm not lowering my expectations to pathetic levels any more. Enough is enough.

the Flames GM hired a coach the fans can't stand, traded a 1st and two 2nd rounders for an underwhelming defenseman in Hamonic and continues to acquire stop-gap goalie

you sure you want that kind of management?

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Linked citations 3 times before, so have others. Not doing it again. Do your own work because you've made it clear it doesn't matter when people do link the information on how we got Talbot and that other GM's were PISSED because they had offered more. You'll ignore it everytime anyway.

cool so nothing but baseless speculation

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

A regular season paper tiger who has yet to accomplish anything of substance in the playoffs? Yeah, sounds exactly like the team Chia has built.

huh? sarcasm right?
didn't the Oilers go to Game 7 in the 2nd round like 7 month ago?

That the best counter-example you can come up with is the only team to do less with similar assets in the last ten years should be an eye-opener for you. However, something tells me it won't be...

didn't Nashville lose James Neal, Ryan Ellis and Mike Fisher and only replace them with Nick Bonino?
Poile is an idiot for not replacing them with more depth...

 

[harpoon]

@Night Witch. I appreciate the list you made up earlier.
Even though I don't agree with some/many of the points you are making with the list I think having it written out in one post is a useful thing and it does help facilitate honest conversation.
I would like to reply to the list, but before I do so I wonder if you could make a similar list of reasons from the other side of the table, ie. reasons you feel Chiarelli shouldn't be fired.

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

huh? sarcasm right?
didn't the Oilers go to Game 7 in the 2nd round like 7 month ago?

Remind me again what awards they give out for winning a single playoff round in three years?

didn't Nashville lose James Neal, Ryan Ellis and Mike Fisher and only replace them with Nick Bonino?
Poile is an idiot for not replacing them with more depth...

Poile has this little gift called self-awareness, and when he observed that secondary scoring was going to be a problem, he went out and paid the price for Turris- this despite the Preds playing even better at the time than they did last year, and much better than the Oilers at any point during Chia's tenure. That's called proactive management.

Fisher, meanwhile, was replaced with Bonino- about as even a swap as you can get.

However, on that note, do you notice how Poile didn't just go out and acquire a player a third or a quarter as effective to do either job, like Chiarelli did with Eberle? Again, that's good management, which I give you a pass for not really knowing when you see it due to the parade of clowns we've had in the GM role since... oh, I dunno, Sather.

As for Ellis, yes, the Preds absolutely need to do something there before the deadline. But even this year, Poile has demonstrated he has the skill and will to address weaknesses before they become serious issues. When has Chiarelli ever made a trade that gives you the impression he's capable of the same?