Fire Travis Green

[GetFocht]

Lol @WTG, he was so adamant that Green was a terrible coach. Go ask your dad on how Green is doing since he apparently an hockey management expert.

 

[WTG]

Lol @WTG, he was so adamant that Green was a terrible coach. Go ask your dad on how Green is doing since he apparently an hockey management expert.

Are you a hockey management expert that can question my father and my expertise?

We have a higher 5v5 on ice shooting percentage then the Las Vegas Knights. Our SH% last year was 7.01, to this years 9.63...

Last year the highest % team in the leage had a 9.18 which was washington. They managed a PDO of 102.91, That's with Holtby and Ovechkin. This year we have a 102.57 PDO with Dorsett and Nilson.



Let me ask you a question? When Dorsett and Sutter come crashing back down to earth. And we go into next month with that schedule we have, will you still be so giddy to attack my hockey expertise? Probably not...

Because guess what, Travis Green isn't a good coach, and this team sucks.

 

[VancouverJagger]

Because guess what, Travis Green isn't a good coach, and this team sucks.

What makes you an expert? Because you obsessively keep track of stats? Play 2x a week in some over 40's beer league? Are top in your 10 team fantasy league?

It's laughable all the so called Canucks fans who are "experts" because they listen to 4 hours of talk radio and played hockey up until PeeWee.........

 

[WTG]

While we are on the advanced stats side of things. This might the most boring system we have ever played. Our CF per 60 is 2nd last in the league at 50.11... Real exciting hockey we are playing. Makes me optimistic that Travis Green will probably be fired sooner rather then later because once our shooting percentage comes down, we are going to be a 2 goal a game MAX team. Nobody wants to see that, on top of that he will bench all the young players and play Dorsett and Sutter who will slow down and eventually return to their normal useless selves.

But hey guys, you are sure showing me now that in this little stretch of games that Travis Green is a fantastic coach! Haha! GOT ME!

There was a quick defense of Travis Green that suggested that the small sample size of Travis Green's games wasn't enough to make a judgement on the coach. Now I see people using the same amount of a sample size to come the conclusion that those people are wrong. Don't you guys see how hypocritical that is?

I have been consistent with my dislike of Travis Green and his systems since 2015.

 

[WTG]

What makes you an expert? Because you obsessively keep track of stats? Play 2x a week in some over 40's beer league? Are top in your 10 team fantasy league?

It's laughable all the so called Canucks fans who are "experts" because they listen to 4 hours of talk radio and played hockey up until PeeWee.........

Do you need to be an expert to evaluate hockey personnel? All it is, is an appeal to authority. "What gives you the right to question the great and mighty Travis Green?!?!?"

Hey, maybe I came to this conclusion after watching 2 years of Utica comets games? How about that?

 

[scorvat53]

While we are on the advanced stats side of things. This might the most boring system we have ever played. Our CF per 60 is 2nd last in the league at 50.11... Real exciting hockey we are playing. Makes me optimistic that Travis Green will probably be fired sooner rather then later because once our shooting percentage comes down, we are going to be a 2 goal a game MAX team. Nobody wants to see that, on top of that he will bench all the young players and play Dorsett and Sutter who will slow down and eventually return to their normal useless selves.

But hey guys, you are sure showing me now that in this little stretch of games that Travis Green is a fantastic coach! Haha! GOT ME!

There was a quick defense of Travis Green that suggested that the small sample size of Travis Green's games wasn't enough to make a judgement on the coach. Now I see people using the same amount of a sample size to come the conclusion that those people are wrong. Don't you guys see how hypocritical that is?

I have been consistent with my dislike of Travis Green and his systems since 2015.

Bring Willie back, I miss him too.

 

[GetFocht]

The experts in this board thought Chayka was the best GM in the NHL.

 

[Master Radishes]

I am by no means going to comment on whether Green is a good or bad coach. I (a) don't know enough about coaching to say and (b) can't even watch games due to time zone differences. But surely we are wise enough in the ways of the NHL to understand that a run of a few good games to start a season does not mean that a new coach is definitely 100% a good coach. WTG has the right to hold his opinion, and could very well be proven right in the long run. It's a long season ahead, after all. No need for anyone on either side of the discussion to get so worked up about it.

 

[MadCard05]

Are you a hockey management expert that can question my father and my expertise?

We have a higher 5v5 on ice shooting percentage then the Las Vegas Knights. Our SH% last year was 7.01, to this years 9.63...

Last year the highest % team in the leage had a 9.18 which was washington. They managed a PDO of 102.91, That's with Holtby and Ovechkin. This year we have a 102.57 PDO with Dorsett and Nilson.



Let me ask you a question? When Dorsett and Sutter come crashing back down to earth. And we go into next month with that schedule we have, will you still be so giddy to attack my hockey expertise? Probably not...

Because guess what, Travis Green isn't a good coach, and this team sucks.

Well my dad can beat up your dad.

 

[Pip]

Lol @WTG, he was so adamant that Green was a terrible coach. Go ask your dad on how Green is doing since he apparently an hockey management expert.

It’s so early, I don’t know how anyone can claim that he is a good coach thus far. At the very least WTG is being consistent with the view he’s held after closely following Green while he coached the Comets and isn’t basing it on a team that has a few more wins than expected 10 games into the season.

 

[GetFocht]

Well my dad can beat up your dad.

 

[groov2]

Are you a hockey management expert that can question my father and my expertise?

We have a higher 5v5 on ice shooting percentage then the Las Vegas Knights. Our SH% last year was 7.01, to this years 9.63...

Last year the highest % team in the leage had a 9.18 which was washington. They managed a PDO of 102.91, That's with Holtby and Ovechkin. This year we have a 102.57 PDO with Dorsett and Nilson.



Let me ask you a question? When Dorsett and Sutter come crashing back down to earth. And we go into next month with that schedule we have, will you still be so giddy to attack my hockey expertise? Probably not...

Because guess what, Travis Green isn't a good coach, and this team sucks.

While I do not deny your figures, I do not see how this is evidence that Travis Green is a bad coach. I would argue that the figures you have compiled are more evident that this team is punching above its weight at the moment (which I believe they are).

Based on my experience in the game, I really like what I see so far. I like that he is not putting young players in a position to sink or swim. From what I see, he is putting them in a position to succeed. It is evident to me that he has put more and more on the shoulders of Boeser, Horvat, and Baertschi as they continue to lead this team. Virtanen is a different story, as I think he has to be developed a little differently. I think that Virtanen needs to be given a little, and then if he succeeds, give him some more. When he then fails, teach him, put him back in a position to succeed, and then when he takes another step, give him some more. We used to do this with certain players all the time (myself and my coaches). Virtanen's game has undergone a major rebuild, and he cannot have it all in one go.

I have noticed in the first ten games that players look like they actually have defined roles. Under WD, Sutter was asked to be a 2nd line scoring centre. He may be paid like one, but this is not his game. He is a defensive centre with speed and a good shot, and Green has him playing this way. This is the same story for Dorsett. Will Dorsett keep this up? No, but at least he is playing a North/South checking role, doing what he is best at. Players actually look like they know what kind of player they are supposed to be.

In terms of systems, I think it is far more exciting than what we have seen the last few years. I like that we are constantly pushing the puck and our players are getting used to it. I like the exchange that he is allowing for F3 and D1 when either rushing the puck or holding the line; this reminds me a lot of the way AV had it set up. Our forecheck was so predictable under WD, but for this season thus far, players are adjusting to the play rather than doing the same thing every time. You can see on plays that they start off going to a 2-1-2 and then adjust to a 1-2-2 based on whether we retrieve the puck or not (seen on Granlund's goal last night).

In terms of game management, I like how there is a contrast between who is firing on game night with match-ups that actually make sense. Of course Granlund, Sutter, and Dorsett are getting a lot of ice time; they have been lights out both defensively and offensively.

It is early days and we are punching above our weight, but I think it is ludicrous to call Travis Green a bad coach based on anything we have seen thus far.

 

[UticaHockey]

Do you need to be an expert to evaluate hockey personnel? All it is, is an appeal to authority. "What gives you the right to question the great and mighty Travis Green?!?!?"

Hey, maybe I came to this conclusion after watching 2 years of Utica comets games? How about that?

There are plenty of people in Utica that would disagree with your assessment that Green is a bad coach. He consistency got more out of a suspect lineup than he ever should have and his players consistently sang his praise.

You have a very negative view of Travis Green and because you make gifs of the Comets games it by no means makes you an expert.

 

[VanJack]

Green has the benefit of following one of the worst coaches in Canuck history.....last year the Canucks looked slow, disorganized and were buried in third periods in terms of possession and shots...lineup and ice-time allocations were atrocious....so far they're been grinding teams down with their puck pursuit game. Willie was a nice man, but totally out of his depth and doubt he's ever a head coach in the NHL again....so yes Virginia, coaching does make a big difference in the NHL.

 

[Pip]

What makes you an expert? Because you obsessively keep track of stats? Play 2x a week in some over 40's beer league? Are top in your 10 team fantasy league?

It's laughable all the so called Canucks fans who are "experts" because they listen to 4 hours of talk radio and played hockey up until PeeWee.........

You don't get to decide who is worthy of giving their opinion or evaluating management. This is a discussion board and without discussion about the team/management (including potential negative comments !!!!) then I don't know what the point is.

 

[Nomobo]

Do you need to be an expert to evaluate hockey personnel? All it is, is an appeal to authority. "What gives you the right to question the great and mighty Travis Green?!?!?"

Hey, maybe I came to this conclusion after watching 2 years of Utica comets games? How about that?

It's also very possible that you spent two years watching a bad hockey team in Utica and you didn't even know it. Maybe Green was doing the best with what he had? If you're still adamant that he is a bad coach, then I seriously question your judgement. You could say that it's too early to judge but to jump up and down and proclaim him to be a terrible coach just reeks of bias.

I know you're into advanced stats but you totally take the human element out of the equation.

I'll venture to say that Green has forgotten more than you'll ever know about the game. Call it an appeal to authority if you like, don't care.

 

[The Stig]

While we are on the advanced stats side of things. This might the most boring system we have ever played. Our CF per 60 is 2nd last in the league at 50.11... Real exciting hockey we are playing. Makes me optimistic that Travis Green will probably be fired sooner rather then later because once our shooting percentage comes down, we are going to be a 2 goal a game MAX team. Nobody wants to see that, on top of that he will bench all the young players and play Dorsett and Sutter who will slow down and eventually return to their normal useless selves.

But hey guys, you are sure showing me now that in this little stretch of games that Travis Green is a fantastic coach! Haha! GOT ME!

There was a quick defense of Travis Green that suggested that the small sample size of Travis Green's games wasn't enough to make a judgement on the coach. Now I see people using the same amount of a sample size to come the conclusion that those people are wrong. Don't you guys see how hypocritical that is?

I have been consistent with my dislike of Travis Green and his systems since 2015.

I think you've snapped and are turning into y2k

 

[WTG]

There are plenty of people in Utica that would disagree with your assessment that Green is a bad coach. He consistency got more out of a suspect lineup than he ever should have and his players consistently sang his praise.

You have a very negative view of Travis Green and because you make gifs of the Comets games it by no means makes you an expert.

When did I ever even consider myself an expert on anything? I'm a person on a forum with an opinion. I never claimed to be an expert, I'm not making that case. I am only making the case that because I watched Travis Green I have extra context to my opinions. That's it. Just trying to establish that I have not crafted these opinions on a small sample size.

If you need to be an expert to evaluate Green then you have no right to say he did a good job either. So what is the point.

 

[WTG]

It's also very possible that you spent two years watching a bad hockey team in Utica and you didn't even know it. Maybe Green was doing the best with what he had? If you're still adamant that he is a bad coach, then I seriously question your judgement. You could say that it's too early to judge but to jump up and down and proclaim him to be a terrible coach just reeks of bias.

I know you're into advanced stats but you totally take the human element out of the equation.

I'll venture to say that Green has forgotten more than you'll ever know about the game. Call it an appeal to authority if you like, don't care.

Maybe will all these "maybes" you are just given him the benefit of the doubt every single time.

 

[Ryan Miller*]

When did I ever even consider myself an expert on anything? I'm a person on a forum with an opinion. I never claimed to be an expert, I'm not making that case.

Hm.

Are you a hockey management expert that can question my father and my expertise?

 

[WTG]

Hm.

Expertise =/= Expert

Expertise definition
"knowledge in a particular field."

Expert definition
"a person who has a comprehensive and authoritative knowledge of or skill in a particular area."


Saying I'm knowledgeable at hockey is one thing. Saying that I have authoritative knowledge is another. I think most people here are knowledgeable in hockey, but there are very little on this website that have authoritative knowledge, and I never claimed to have that authoritative knowledge.

 

[Ryan Miller*]

Expertise =/= Expert

Expertise definition
"knowledge in a particular field."

Expert definition
"a person who has a comprehensive and authoritative knowledge of or skill in a particular area."

Incredible. You do know that the word expertise is literally built out of the word expert right? And yet, "expertise =/= expert."

I'm speechless.

Not sure what online dictionary you're googling your definitions from, but the OED is the best dictionary out there and it defines expertise as:

"The quality or state of being expert"

Someone let them know ASAP that expertise =/= expert!

 

[WTG]

While I do not deny your figures, I do not see how this is evidence that Travis Green is a bad coach. I would argue that the figures you have compiled are more evident that this team is punching above its weight at the moment (which I believe they are).

Based on my experience in the game, I really like what I see so far. I like that he is not putting young players in a position to sink or swim. From what I see, he is putting them in a position to succeed. It is evident to me that he has put more and more on the shoulders of Boeser, Horvat, and Baertschi as they continue to lead this team. Virtanen is a different story, as I think he has to be developed a little differently. I think that Virtanen needs to be given a little, and then if he succeeds, give him some more. When he then fails, teach him, put him back in a position to succeed, and then when he takes another step, give him some more. We used to do this with certain players all the time (myself and my coaches). Virtanen's game has undergone a major rebuild, and he cannot have it all in one go.

I have noticed in the first ten games that players look like they actually have defined roles. Under WD, Sutter was asked to be a 2nd line scoring centre. He may be paid like one, but this is not his game. He is a defensive centre with speed and a good shot, and Green has him playing this way. This is the same story for Dorsett. Will Dorsett keep this up? No, but at least he is playing a North/South checking role, doing what he is best at. Players actually look like they know what kind of player they are supposed to be.

In terms of systems, I think it is far more exciting than what we have seen the last few years. I like that we are constantly pushing the puck and our players are getting used to it. I like the exchange that he is allowing for F3 and D1 when either rushing the puck or holding the line; this reminds me a lot of the way AV had it set up. Our forecheck was so predictable under WD, but for this season thus far, players are adjusting to the play rather than doing the same thing every time. You can see on plays that they start off going to a 2-1-2 and then adjust to a 1-2-2 based on whether we retrieve the puck or not (seen on Granlund's goal last night).

In terms of game management, I like how there is a contrast between who is firing on game night with match-ups that actually make sense. Of course Granlund, Sutter, and Dorsett are getting a lot of ice time; they have been lights out both defensively and offensively.

It is early days and we are punching above our weight, but I think it is ludicrous to call Travis Green a bad coach based on anything we have seen thus far.

Travis Green's systems makes us one of the most low event systems in the NHL. Probably the most low event in the entire league. The only reason this season has been entertaining is because we've been punching above our weight class in terms of goals. Much higher then we actually should. We've also benefited from having last I checked a +/- in penalties of 9.

You can see on this team, where the wheels are going to fall off. This team is going to be just like willies teams and not score for games. This team is going to suck for weeks on end. I'm getting flamed now, for pointing out where the wheels are going to fall off and how this team is going to falter, and critiquing Travis Green for it, before it happens.

Sutter is a 4th line center playing 1st line even strength minutes. Dorsett is statistically a 13th forward going into this season. What do you think will happen when they regress back to their normal levels? What do you think will happen? We are going to get absolutely smashed, and I am making these strong arguments now, so that nobody can say we didn't predict this. Because guess what, we did.

 

[WTG]

Incredible. You do know that the word expertise is literally built out of the word expert right? And yet, "expertise =/= expert."

I'm speechless.

Not sure what online dictionary you're googling your definitions from, but the OED is the best dictionary out there and it defines expertise as:

"The quality or state of being expert"

Someone let them know ASAP that expertise =/= expert!

It's legit just the dictionary on google saying these things. This is the weirdest argument to make.

Merriam-webster defines Expertise:
knowledge gained by actually doing or living through something


Marriam-Webster defines Expert:
having or showing exceptional knowledge, experience, or skill in a field of endeavor
accomplished with trained ability

It's amazing how 2 different words have 2 different meanings. Knowledge gained =/= exceptional knowledge


In the context of me saying I have expertise, is different then to say I'm an expert. Because expertise is saying my hockey "knowledge" that can range from bad to good. Saying I'm an expert means that it's exclusively good, or at a "expert" level. I legit meant expertise as a synonym for knowledge. Not for a synonym for me being an expert.

So in the context, I said, "How can you question my hockey knowledge" not, "how can you question that I'm not a hockey expert".

If I messed that up, that's fine. I'm ESL, English is hard yo. But I'm about 99% right I didn't mess this up.

 

[groov2]

Travis Green's systems makes us one of the most low event systems in the NHL. Probably the most low event in the entire league. The only reason this season has been entertaining is because we've been punching above our weight class in terms of goals. Much higher then we actually should. We've also benefited from having last I checked a +/- in penalties of 9.

You can see on this team, where the wheels are going to fall off. This team is going to be just like willies teams and not score for games. This team is going to suck for weeks on end. I'm getting flamed now, for pointing out where the wheels are going to fall off and how this team is going to falter, and critiquing Travis Green for it, before it happens.

Sutter is a 4th line center playing 1st line even strength minutes. Dorsett is statistically a 13th forward going into this season. What do you think will happen when they regress back to their normal levels? What do you think will happen? We are going to get absolutely smashed, and I am making these strong arguments now, so that nobody can say we didn't predict this. Because guess what, we did.

I'll stand by my last statement. If we suck for weeks on end, I do not think it is reflective of the current evidence of Travis Green's coaching. It will be because we don't have the players to be that great. Sutter is not a forth line centre. His point totals and his ability for his entire career prove otherwise. Dorsett has been an effective 3rd/4th liner his entire career until he was misused by WD.

Low event hockey does not mean bad hockey and it certainly does not mean bad coaching. If we are bad, it is because we do not have the horses in the race, which we don't. I will be happy to change my opinion once I see evidence of bad coaching.