Fire Hakstol

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Teams gave away/had to trade better players than Nick Cousins due to the expansion draft. I am happy he is doing well but I have lost zero sleep over him being traded.

 

[VladDrag]

This idea of locking players into certain roles needs to die in a fire. Who gives a rat's ass if Cousins wasn't a traditional 3rd line checking center? He'd be an upgrade on Filppula who, ironically enough, is floundering in his role as a traditional 3rd line checking center.

The Filppula trade has bothered me since the day it was made because the Flyers (Hextall) didn't view it strictly as a cap dump acquisition in return for a couple of picks. They really think this guy is/will be instrumental in mentoring the young forwards on the roster. Playing with good players develops prospects, not this veteran presence mystique in the locker room.

I don't like Filppula's deployment, and I don't think a lot of people do. I think his days an NHL center are very close to over. I think he may be able to stick around as a winger for a bit longer.

However, I do think there is a mental component to prospect development, which is just as important as playing with good players. Filp has been around the league for 10+ seasons. He knows the rigors of the NHL, he's seen a lot. It's not a fluke that he's been in the NHL that long. There is value in having veteran players around younger NHL players.

 

[Striiker]

No excuse.

Filppula isn’t the only vet on this team, the young guys can look up to others that don’t hurt the team when they’re on the ice.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

I was fine with the trade at the time, and still am. But Hakstol just leans on the guy too much and is getting exposed. Of course per usual he doesnt see it.

 

[VladDrag]

No excuse.

Filppula isn’t the only vet on this team, the young guys can look up to others that don’t hurt the team when they’re on the ice.

No excuse for what? I don't quite understand that bit of it. Don't disagree that Filp is over deployed as a 2C (should be a 4C with this roster), and that is hurting the team.

My main point was that a veteran presence does help in prospect development.

 

[Striiker]

No excuse for what? I don't quite understand that bit of it. Don't disagree that Filp is over deployed as a 2C (should be a 4C with this roster), and that is hurting the team.

My main point was that a veteran presence does help in prospect development.

Being a vet who can possible provide guidance for the young guys is no excuse for the way he's deployed or even keeping him on the team.

I understand your point. I'm pointing out that Filppula isn't the only source of a veteran presence on that team. Giroux is 30, Simmonds is 29, Voracek is 28, Raffl is 29, etc.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Since Feb. 1, Patrick has averaged more minutes per game than Filppula, including at ES. (13:23 ES vs. 12:25; 15:47 overall vs. 15:24).

So, over that span, Patrick has been the #2. And I sure don't think Laughton deserves to be the #3 -- he's been absolutely dreadful. Hate to say, because I was against his acquisition from day one, and he's been terrible, but Filppula still deserves more minutes at center than Laughton.

So Hakstol can't exactly just relegate Filppula to the press box or 10 minutes per game. He's playing what he has.

 

[Tripod]

I was fine with the trade at the time, and still am. But Hakstol just leans on the guy too much and is getting exposed. Of course per usual he doesnt see it.

That's how I feel.

I was fine with the trade when made, and last year he, Weal and Simmonds seemed to play well and it gave us 3 capable centers.

But Hak has shown NO ability to adjust quickly to situations. He can't see that playing Flip the most ES minutes in games, hurts us. Especially right now when we have a healthy Patrick who can handle more icetime. Instead, Fip is getting more minutes while Patrick and Laughton get less.

 

[VladDrag]

Being a vet who can possible provide guidance for the young guys is no excuse for the way he's deployed or even keeping him on the team.

I understand your point. I'm pointing out that Filppula isn't the only source of a veteran presence on that team. Giroux is 30, Simmonds is 29, Voracek is 28, Raffl is 29, etc.

Yeah, I agree. A team shouldn't hold onto a player purely for 'veteran presence'. That's silly. I do hope he's gone at the end of the year.

I do still think he can play a bit longer as a bottom 6 winger. There is still a role for him in the NHL, but not as a 17-18min/game player. I don't want him to be in our bottom 6, we have too many kids who can play that position.

 

[deadhead]

Patrick shouldn't be playing much more than 15:47 this year, not because of talent, but because he's just not physically ready (lack of summer workouts means limited strength and stamina) and could get injured if over worked.

So it comes down to Filppula v Laughton, neither of which is a good choice, ideally Filppula would be 4LW and Laughton 4C, but we don't have a 3C.

 

[Striiker]

Yeah, I agree. A team shouldn't hold onto a player purely for 'veteran presence'. That's silly. I do hope he's gone at the end of the year.

I do still think he can play a bit longer as a bottom 6 winger. There is still a role for him in the NHL, but not as a 17-18min/game player. I don't want him to be in our bottom 6, we have too many kids who can play that position.

Oh yeah, of course. I agree with all of this.

I think I misunderstood what you were saying, my bad.

 

[Ruck Over]

No excuse for what? I don't quite understand that bit of it. Don't disagree that Filp is over deployed as a 2C (should be a 4C with this roster), and that is hurting the team.

My main point was that a veteran presence does help in prospect development.

This is Claude's 10th year in the league, Voracek's, MacDonald's (egh) & Simmonds' 9th year, Couturier's 6th year, Elliott's 10th year, etc. etc.

There are many players who have been "in the league for a little while" and not just Filppula. The he's a veteran is a tired excuse that doesn't make sense for why he is being mismanaged by the coaching staff to the teams determent. Nor does it justify his presence being necessary to help develop younger talent.

When it comes to vet's helping out prospects develop, it's more likely apt to mention when Danny Briere took in a young Claude Giroux or Sean Couturier and housed them like he were a billet family. That all three dudes are francophones probably had a lot to do with it. Had the Flyers had Poolparty on the team, and Filp opened up his domicile to him for the season, yeah, I'd agree Filp had an important part on the team helping a youngster out. (Only mention Poolparty as he's the only Finnish young guy I know of still developing, Laine is so much further ahead, and once upon a time this run on sentence would've considered a Simmonds for Poolparty trade somewhat comprehendible.)

Akin to Manning being a veteran, and Ghost not, even though their games played number is within 5 or so, Ghost may have a lead actually. Sometimes the vet thing makes no sense and is just a silly talking point.

Edit: Eating lunch and responding to old messages... alas, will not undo this work, some of my most productive during the day...

 

[FLYguy3911]

If Laughton has been dreadful, we need to find a new term to describe Filppula's play. He's one of the worst players in the league.

 

[Ruck Over]

Laughton > Filppula, ANIEC.

Edit - ainec - thx Starat327, kinda.

 

[Starat327]

Laughton > Filppula, ANIEC.

Always Never Incorporate Endless Corrections?

 

[Tripod]

Since Feb. 1, Patrick has averaged more minutes per game than Filppula, including at ES. (13:23 ES vs. 12:25; 15:47 overall vs. 15:24).

So, over that span, Patrick has been the #2. And I sure don't think Laughton deserves to be the #3 -- he's been absolutely dreadful. Hate to say, because I was against his acquisition from day one, and he's been terrible, but Filppula still deserves more minutes at center than Laughton.

So Hakstol can't exactly just relegate Filppula to the press box or 10 minutes per game. He's playing what he has.

Except that Hak is now getting away from that. The last 4 games:

Flip 17:17
Patrick 14:36
Laughton 7:39

Flip in NO WAY should be getting the 4th most ice time for all forward. Hak CAN control that, chooses not to.

 

[deadhead]

Laughton is definitely in the doghouse, I think it started the game where he was just standing there in the D-zone, looking totally lost, for not one but two goals scored, after that his time declined. And that when it hit me, he's played almost two full seasons and still looks clueless. Whereas 19 year old Patrick, almost from day one, seems to know exactly where he's supposed to be on both ends of the ice. The problem with Filppula, he knows where to go - just can't get there quickly anymore or execute when he gets there.

I think Hextall has definitely made high hockey IQ, ice vision and instincts key priorities in drafting the last couple years.

 

[Striiker]

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Filppula sucks really bad. That’s the end result & all that matters.

 

[kudymen]

This emoticon is proof of mobbing, hazing and cyber bullying on this board.

 

[gertbfrobe16]

i still find it extremely dissapointing that they have a better road record than their record at home it tells me alot about the coach and his player usage decisions with last line change advantage

 

[Striiker]

This emoticon is proof of mobbing, hazing and cyber bullying on this board.

I can’t help it man, it’s too funny.

The insane reaches to try to rationalize these things are incredible.

Laughton has had his time reduced because he looked lost?

Meanwhile Manning, Filppula, MacDonald, and Hagg continue to provide proof of being insanely low IQ players and they either maintain a high amount of playing time or even get their icetime boosted after atrocious performances.

It’s just clear as day that he’s talking out of his ass and he doesn’t even try to hide it. And now he even has his own personal white knight defending his honor.

 

[baudib1]

Lavy trusted a 19-year-old rookie Sean Couturier to shut down Malkin in a playoff series. It was the right decision, and he was fantastic.

Can anyone envision Hakstol doing the same and trusting a young player in such a shutdown role? Nope, and that's why he has to go. There are too many young players who need to play -- Sanheim, Morin, Vecchione, NAK, Frost and more on the way -- and they can't/shouldn't all be put into sheltered roles.

 

[deadhead]

Sure, if Patrick was 100% Hak would use him like Lavi used Couts - because they were both exceptional talents, people tend to forget that Couts was the #8 pick, and it wasn't based on his skating. There was never a question about Couts' defense, but whether he'd ever score enough to be more than a 3C.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I love Patrick, but Couturier's defensive ability from day one was as special as you will ever see. If anyone wants to act like Patrick's defensive acumen as a rookie is in the same ballpark's as Couturier's as a rookie, I'm going to vehemently disagree.

Patrick has improved immensely, but he's been beaten positionally for goals and near-goals multiple times in the last month. One luckily got taken back because of a very shaky offsides. As much as I've been against Filppula from day one, and dislike him even more now, I can't really fault choosing to play him in defensive situations more than Patrick. It's certainly not an egregious error like some would like to make you think.