Speculation: Ferland and his future with the Canes

[Lempo]

That probably is part of their reasoning, but he is 100% UFA and they weren't. Not a perfect comparable.

Sounds like a stretch that the management would be sending messages to an UFA though RFA extensions. All the parties in the negotiation know perfectly that it's a whole different sort of beast.

In the 2018 offer sheet pick compensation prices successfully offer sheeting someone else's RFA to a $5M something AAV (for 5 y or less) contract btw would cost you a 1st and a 3rd.

 

[FreshSeabass]

Is there some rule about trading a player who is UFA getting assets for said player and then having an verbal agreement that the same team will sign the player in free agency? So basically let's trade ferland get some assets and then we circle back to him and free agency and get him signed. Sorry I know getting a little bit tin foil hat here.

 

[AeroFishOne]

Is there some rule about trading a player who is UFA getting assets for said player and then having an verbal agreement that the same team will sign the player in free agency? So basically let's trade ferland get some assets and then we circle back to him and free agency and get him signed. Sorry I know getting a little bit tin foil hat here.

I would imagine the furthest it would go is to give him a final offer with the understanding that’s the most we go to after July. Don’t see agent and players wanting to go that route because they are going to want that bidding war if they hang that far out.

 

[Lempo]

Is there some rule about trading a player who is UFA getting assets for said player and then having an verbal agreement that the same team will sign the player in free agency? So basically let's trade ferland get some assets and then we circle back to him and free agency and get him signed. Sorry I know getting a little bit tin foil hat here.

CBA 26.3 on Circumventions would probably be thrown at you if you got caught or there was strong hints of you doing it. The team has the exclusive negotiation right for their pending UFAs until them late June days, and it could be argued that your standing offer is Circumventing that.

 

[cptjeff]

CBA 26.3 on Circumventions would probably be thrown at you if you got caught or there was strong hints of you doing it. The team has the exclusive negotiation right for their pending UFAs until them late June days, and it could be argued that your standing offer is Circumventing that.

It's happened a fair number of times with rental players, though. While it might be against the formal terms of the law, arrangements like that do get made with some regularity. Hard to control what's said in the room when it's in everyone's interest to keep it secret. Never enforceable or in writing, so there's a risk, but it's been done.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Speaking of tampering, during the Ottawa broadcast Tripp noticeably paused before admitting he spoke to Eric Staal "for a while" after the Nino trade.

He's coming home, boys.

 

[DougieSmash]

I'll pass on Eric just because we are in process of changing the culture. On other hand, he's probably the only legit #2 center we could add this summer (Schenn is better suited for LW, Hayes is talented but enigma).

I'd love to see Eric finishing his career here but i'm tired of Staal brothers. I don't know at all. If we could add him at bargain price, maybe it's not the worst deal.

Ferland/ Aho/ TT
Niederreiter/ Staal/ Svechnikov
McGinn/ Staal/ Maenalanen
Martinook/ Wallmark/ Foegele

Nothing impressive at all.

 

[AD Skinner]

If he's interested in coming here go after him in free agency. Unless we win every game between now and the trade deadline there's no sense giving up assets for him in a lost season when you could acquire him for money only in the summer

 

[Chrispy]

It's happened a fair number of times with rental players, though. While it might be against the formal terms of the law, arrangements like that do get made with some regularity. Hard to control what's said in the room when it's in everyone's interest to keep it secret. Never enforceable or in writing, so there's a risk, but it's been done.

It's also a lot easier to circle back with the player before July 1 now with the late June window, so it would be even harder to prove tampering. Any offer made to sign before the trade is a legitimate negotiation with your own player, and any offer made in late June is legitimate negotiation with an upcoming UFA, so it would have to be blatant and probably in writing to get in trouble.

 

[Chrispy]

If he's interested in coming here go after him in free agency. Unless we win every game between now and the trade deadline there's no sense giving up assets for him in a lost season when you could acquire him for money only in the summer

Agreed. I'm willing to see what it would take in late June, but I don't see deals for pending UFAs. Better to look for more cap clearing moves by other teams where one could take advantage.

For instance, I'd make an exception about pending UFAs if Pittsburgh is looking to give away Brassard, but I think they will get real offers for him. If Tampa wanted to move Miller before the deadline, I'd definitely be open to that. Maybe a package of picks and Ferland if a deal cannot be done. But I don't see Tampa doing that either unless they feel they are making a move to keep Ferland away from others.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

From LeBrun's latest article:

First, let’s update Ferland. The pending UFA winger is all but gone. The only way he stays put is if there’s breakthrough in talks between the two sides but I don’t see that happening at this point. Depending on who you talk to, it’s either because his salary demands are too rich for the ‘Canes or simply because he’d like to test the July 1 market which hey, is certainly his right.

 

[GoldiFox]

From LeBrun's latest article:

There are still lots of moving parts and conversations being had within the Hurricanes’ front office and my sense is that GM Don Waddell’s phone really started to buzz after he made the deal with Minnesota last week. It’s as if other teams who were staying in touch with Carolina realized it was time to get more serious about those conversations.

At least that is good. Hopefully we see some movement.

I wonder if (similar to last year with Mrazek) the Canes shouldn't trade:

Mid round pick + one of Mrazek/McE for Cam Talbot

Talbot has been bad but Edmonton is bad outside of a few stars. Maybe he could revive behind a stout Canes defense.

Price for Ferland still 1st + prospect.

 

[Joe McGrath]

They should be trading Ferland and a small + to Edmonton for their unprotected 1st because you know when they miss the playoffs that puck is going to be #1 overall.

 

[spockBokk]

Price for Ferland still 1st + prospect.

The first preference should be to re-sign Ferland, within reason, but if Waddell can pull a 1st plus a prospect for Ferlabd, I’d be happy with that, as long as there’s a corresponding D for roster forward trade.
That Athletic article also emphasizes interest from PIT in Ferland. If there’s 1 GM willing to pay that 1st plus prospect price, I’d put money on JR.

 

[CanesFanBudMan]

If Ferland goes the Canes need to add a top 6 winger and a 2c at minimum. If Ferland stays the Canes need to add a 2c at minimum.

Regardless of the situation they need to have a starting goalie somehow going into next season.

Players the Canes have that may be reasonably available are:

- Ferland (will hold significant deadline value)
- Faulk (I think he has more value than the main board seems to think - as most of that is based on his reputation as an offensive D who can't play Defense)
- Hamilton (the org has said they are not shopping him, but are listening to offers- I imagine that if Hamilton is moved it will be for a decent return if for nothing but optics)
- TVR (at minimum 1 LHD will be moving out - if not Faulk or Hamilton it will be TVR)
- Staal (May or may not be available - also unsure of what value he would have)

Notable teams that may have players available around the league are:

- Detroit: They are last in the league and in cap hell: Players I would potentially target are AA and Mantha.
- TBL: J.T. Miller will be a likely cap casualty
- TML: Someone will be moving out due to the cap: could be any of Nylander, Kapanen, or Kadri. Nylander could potentially be had for good value asset wise he does not step up his performance. Kadri and NN have had bad blood in the past, don't think that would be an issue, but who knows
- NYR: any number of guys could shake free via trade/ free agency
- PIT: Brassard is available: however would not hold too much value to the Canes unless he would resign for a reasonable term and amount
- CHI: Saad could be available
- STL: Apparently everyone is available for the right price - if they are truly motivated to make a deal they do have a lot of high end players

 

[DougieSmash]

Give me Miller and Kapanen

 

[Lempo]

It's happened a fair number of times with rental players, though. While it might be against the formal terms of the law, arrangements like that do get made with some regularity. Hard to control what's said in the room when it's in everyone's interest to keep it secret. Never enforceable or in writing, so there's a risk, but it's been done.

Yeah, well, in real life they tamper like hell and have formed it into an art.

The agent of a pending Free Agent calls to a GM in the spring if he'd be interested in a "left-hand D-man of around 30 points" and the GM says that he may indeed have some interest to a guy "about 26 years old with maybe some OHL background".

Then comes July 1st and the complex and specific UFA contracts with yearly altering Salary and Signing Bonuses and no-trade clauses and whatnot start dropping into NHL Central Registry three minutes after the Free Agency has started.

 

[Chrispy]

Could there be something around TVR and Athanasiou? I think TVR + a top 4 D need to move if there is going to be room for one of Fox/McKeown next season. I'm not saying McKeown needs to move up, but I do think he's a reasonable safety net for the bottom pairing if Fox signs and doesn't impress next year.

 

[OTC]

Ferland has made it known he’s more about term than anything else. What does that mean? Hard to say, I’m sure he’s asking for 8 but knows that’s unrealistic for anyone less than star players so he has to have an actual number of years he’s willing to accept if he can get to it.

I’m guessing 5-6. He knows teams want 3-4 so if he picks a fight about it, it’s because he may choose the best team he can go to that gives him the 5-6. So maybe the TT deal helps define it. Maybe we offer 5.5 for 5-6 and hold there. He can ask for more than TT because of Ufa. He may get it out there.

It’s still a good offer. I know I desperately want the guy signed but I don’t want 8 years for anyone - even Aho. I’m just really aggravated about the summer trade and it’s trickle down effect. I feel like they had to sign him after trading for him. He was he only culture change in the trade and he’s brought it. He’ll always miss games but you have to take risks. TT is a risk too.

See what term has done to The Blackhawks / Seabrook-Keith. They did win 3 cups and came close to another.

 

[Moosetache]

Could there be something around TVR and Athanasiou? I think TVR + a top 4 D need to move if there is going to be room for one of Fox/McKeown next season. I'm not saying McKeown needs to move up, but I do think he's a reasonable safety net for the bottom pairing if Fox signs and doesn't impress next year.

I'd guess thats a pretty quick NO from Detroit. unless the + is like a 1st

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

I'll pass on Eric just because we are in process of changing the culture. On other hand, he's probably the only legit #2 center we could add this summer (Schenn is better suited for LW, Hayes is talented but enigma).

I'd love to see Eric finishing his career here but i'm tired of Staal brothers. I don't know at all. If we could add him at bargain price, maybe it's not the worst deal.

Ferland/ Aho/ TT
Niederreiter/ Staal/ Svechnikov
McGinn/ Staal/ Maenalanen
Martinook/ Wallmark/ Foegele

Nothing impressive at all.

That forward lineup looks great to me. I mean sure I'd love AA off Detroit or Miller off of Tampa or Kap off of Toronto but those all involve trades which we can't necessarily control the outcome of. Re-signing Ferland and signing Staal are 100% possibilities within our control. I could see Williams coming back on a cheap deal for another year or two.

 

[My Special Purpose]

CBA 26.3 on Circumventions would probably be thrown at you if you got caught or there was strong hints of you doing it. The team has the exclusive negotiation right for their pending UFAs until them late June days, and it could be argued that your standing offer is Circumventing that.

It's happened a fair number of times with rental players, though. While it might be against the formal terms of the law, arrangements like that do get made with some regularity. Hard to control what's said in the room when it's in everyone's interest to keep it secret. Never enforceable or in writing, so there's a risk, but it's been done.

It's also a lot easier to circle back with the player before July 1 now with the late June window, so it would be even harder to prove tampering. Any offer made to sign before the trade is a legitimate negotiation with your own player, and any offer made in late June is legitimate negotiation with an upcoming UFA, so it would have to be blatant and probably in writing to get in trouble.

I'm telling you all -- and it's obvious you don't believe me -- but "standing offers" or "handshake agreements* simply do not happen. There are *never* any handshake deals with pending UFAs on the way out the door after they get traded. At most, the team will tell the player/agent that they are going to be interested on July 1 and they'd appreciate being part of the process. But there's is *never* anything agreed to. First of all, it's against the rules. Secondly, it's against the spirit of free agency.

And thirdly, and most importantly, it's just not smart for either side. This is the real world, and stuff changes between March 1 and July 1, for both the player and the team. Even if the most mega-obvious case of Glen Wesley getting traded to Toronto a few years back. I will guarantee you the *most* JR said to Wesley and his agent is that he'll circle back on July 1 to see where Glen's at and where the Canes are at. There is simply *no way* anything was agreed to, in writing or otherwise.

When Ferland goes, and it looks like it's a foregone conclusion at this point, the Hurricanes will get the best deal possible for him (and considering his actual salary is only $1.75 million right now and thus just about every team can fit him under their cap, it should be significant). Then the Canes will go about making other moves designed to improve the team. It's entirely possible come July 1 that we have no interest in pursuing Ferland. Why would we make any kind of promise or verbal agreement? It's just silly to even think about and it doesn't happen.

 

[NotOpie]

That forward lineup looks great to me. I mean sure I'd love AA off Detroit or Miller off of Tampa or Kap off of Toronto but those all involve trades which we can't necessarily control the outcome of. Re-signing Ferland and signing Staal are 100% possibilities within our control. I could see Williams coming back on a cheap deal for another year or two.

Re: Williams - if by cheap, you mean around $4 million, then I could see it. He may be older and have some miles on him, but he's going to again be a 45 to 50 point player...and he's the reigning team Captain. I think that gets him to the $4 million number. Maybe he takes a bit of a discount, but I wouldn't see anything longer than a 1 year deal anyway, so the difference between $4 million and $3.5 million probably doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Lempo]

There's limited amount of good UFAs, good goalies, good cap space to pay an UFA, good spots on good teams for UFAs to go around, and no one wants to miss out in the early July hassles. Once a matching team and player finds each other I don't think they are too worried of the calendar and if it's "May" or whatever.

If Narolina Nurricanes feel they could use a Nicheal Nerland for the years to come on a certain salary price, and Nerland feels he would like to live in Narolina if certain salary minimum is met, and Nerland's agent has put feelers around to know that Nerland isn't going to get outrageously more from another team, if the salary lines can be made to meet each other it's not sensible to not effectively lock it up, calendar be damned.

July 1st if when they all move to officially lock their pre-agreed positions. We can't be sure if the SPCs faxed to the Registry haven't actually been signed weeks before and only dated to July 1st.

 

[NotOpie]

Ferland's Agent to every NHL team : "How much would you pay a player not named Micheal Ferland, but who played very, very similar to Micheal Ferland? And how much term would come with that deal?" Asking for a friend....