Speculation: Ferland and his future with the Canes

[RodTheBawd]

If he wants anything over what Tom Wilson got, then no. But then again, I would have had the foresight to insist on another player in the deal than him if I knew we probably wouldn't be able to sign him if he went on to have the type of season that made him a good acquisition to begin with.

Also, I would be working on getting a player with term to replace him RIGHT ****ING NOW. Even if that means giving up futures or anyone not named Aho, Svechnikov, or Slavin.

Edit: I missed the Nino trade. That's a hell of a start for Waddell to jettison Rask for him. I'm almost speechless right now.

Look, I've been making the same points all along. But I don't think it would be unreasonable to assume at the time of the trade that he'd be looking at something like $5.5M MAX. If he's actually looking for north of $6M, then that isn't something I'd lay on Dundell, that's just absurd on Ferland's part.

 

[TheBigKahuna]

Which implies that we should trade him? Because if we sign Ferland to a 7x7 deal, that's also crappy management.

If you can't sign him you trade him. SOMEONE will take him by the deadline. The Canes don't need to get Ray Whitney'd again.

 

[FreshSeabass]

Carolina Hurricanes GM Waddell talks Ferland, trade deadline
Someone else who just talked to Waddell today makes it sound like hes as good as gone

Ferland is a player a lot of teams are looking at during this trade period. If the Canes keep him, they keep fans happy. What will most likely happen is Carolina will wait until closer to the trade deadline, allowing time to negotiate with other teams for the best possible deal.

Hurricanes General Manager Don Waddell said the team's first goal is to sign Ferland to a contract extension, which could happen but probably won't.

 

[emptyNedder]

Look, I've been making the same points all along. But I don't think it would be unreasonable to assume at the time of the trade that he'd be looking at something like $5.5M MAX. If he's actually looking for north of $6M, then that isn't something I'd lay on Dundell, that's just absurd on Ferland's part.

Not sure it is absurd. I don't know a lot about Ferland's background, but apparently he is First Nations and grew up poor. Asking for an extra $3,000,000 or even $6,000,000 over 6 years from whichever billionaire who is willing to pay it is poetic justice.

 

[My Special Purpose]

Copying this over from the Niederreiter thread because it's more relevant here:

You guys want to hear something crazy? Micheal Ferland has *55* career NHL goals. That's it. 55. Jeff Skinner, a month *younger* than Ferland has 234. Frankly, $5 million per season is ludicrous for Ferland. If that doesn't even get him into the room, then I'm missing something. James van Riemsdyk hit UFA last season with 201 career goals.

Again, Micheal Ferland has *55* career NHL goals. That was an off-year for Jari Kurri.

I think it's just become obvious to some of us that he's trying to leverage his past season and a half to cash in, and he may not be the type guy we need here. He's clearly delusional if he thinks he's worth $6 million per season. Niederreiter has had a better career in all respects and he just got salary dumped because his team didn't want to pay him the last three seasons at $5.25 million. The numbers are stark, to say the least.

Here are some raw stats from the 2010 draft class:

• Ferland is 33rd in games played with 289 (behind Ryan Spooner, Johan Larsson, and Alex Burmistrov, who hasn't been in the league since 2017)
  Niederreiter is 7th with 498 (for fun, Skinner is 2nd, Justin Faulk is 6th, Tarasenko is 9th)
• Ferland is 22nd in goals scored (with 55, yes, he's got 55 career goals)
  Niederreiter is 11th with 112 (Brock Nelson and Tyler Toffoli have 115, Jason Zucker has 110. Tarasenko is fourth with 193. Skinner second with 234, 12 behind Seguin, 22 ahead of Hall.)
• Ferland is 26th in total points with 114 just behind the immortal Jesper Fast, with 115)
  Niederreiter is 16th with 231, in the same class as Charlie Coyle, Nelson and Kevin Hayes. (Tarasenko is 5th, behind Seguin, Hall, Skinner and Ryan Johansen).

 

[NotOpie]

The beauty of the timing of the Nino/Victor trade is that it is clearly a shot across Ferland's bow. While not a fighter, nor even as big of a hitter, Niederreiter is a gritty, scab-picking type of player that other teams hate playing against. He's physical, just not quite as in your face physical as Ferland.

I still want us to re-sign Micheal, but only at value or a slight over payment....nothing drastic and nothing beyond 5 years.

 

[bleedgreen]

The beauty of the timing of the Nino/Victor trade is that it is clearly a shot across Ferland's bow. While not a fighter, nor even as big of a hitter, Niederreiter is a gritty, scab-picking type of player that other teams hate playing against. He's physical, just not quite as in your face physical as Ferland.

I still want us to re-sign Micheal, but only at value or a slight over payment....nothing drastic and nothing beyond 5 years.

Shot across the bow or distraction from what the summer trade is going to work out to be? Ferland’s gonna get paid by someone, and it will be deserved.

 

[spockBokk]

McKenzie mentions in this vid (follow the links) that Dundon may have met with Ferland 1-1 recently:



Interesting...

 

[Joe McGrath]

Copying this over from the Niederreiter thread because it's more relevant here:

You guys want to hear something crazy? Micheal Ferland has *55* career NHL goals. That's it. 55. Jeff Skinner, a month *younger* than Ferland has 234. Frankly, $5 million per season is ludicrous for Ferland. If that doesn't even get him into the room, then I'm missing something. James van Riemsdyk hit UFA last season with 201 career goals.

Again, Micheal Ferland has *55* career NHL goals. That was an off-year for Jari Kurri.

I think it's just become obvious to some of us that he's trying to leverage his past season and a half to cash in, and he may not be the type guy we need here. He's clearly delusional if he thinks he's worth $6 million per season. Niederreiter has had a better career in all respects and he just got salary dumped because his team didn't want to pay him the last three seasons at $5.25 million. The numbers are stark, to say the least.

Here are some raw stats from the 2010 draft class:

• Ferland is 33rd in games played with 289 (behind Ryan Spooner, Johan Larsson, and Alex Burmistrov, who hasn't been in the league since 2017)
  Niederreiter is 7th with 498 (for fun, Skinner is 2nd, Justin Faulk is 6th, Tarasenko is 9th)
• Ferland is 22nd in goals scored (with 55, yes, he's got 55 career goals)
  Niederreiter is 11th with 112 (Brock Nelson and Tyler Toffoli have 115, Jason Zucker has 110. Tarasenko is fourth with 193. Skinner second with 234, 12 behind Seguin, 22 ahead of Hall.)
• Ferland is 26th in total points with 114 just behind the immortal Jesper Fast, with 115)
  Niederreiter is 16th with 231, in the same class as Charlie Coyle, Nelson and Kevin Hayes. (Tarasenko is 5th, behind Seguin, Hall, Skinner and Ryan Johansen).

I made some similar points yesterday. No one gave a shit.

 

[AeroFishOne]

Shot across the bow or distraction from what the summer trade is going to work out to be? Ferland’s gonna get paid by someone, and it will be deserved.

Do you think he’s worth over 6 million for over 5 years or even more? If not, do you think we should massively overpay just to save face?

 

[NotOpie]

Shot across the bow or distraction from what the summer trade is going to work out to be? Ferland’s gonna get paid by someone, and it will be deserved.

Bleed, we may disagree, but there are few scenarios where I would nor prefer to have Nino Niederreiter on my team over Micheal Ferland. He has grit and toughness, albeit not at the same level as Ferland. He does, however, have significantly better scoring numbers across his career.

That said, I can't value the trade until I see the return. I've said before, numerous times, that if Fox gets signed and Ferland doesn't, I'd be happy with the return....but that's just me. I personally hope that Ferland re-signs, but only at a realistic number....and any term that is greater than 5 years and any salary that starts with six and ends with -illion, isn't just an overpayment, it is an egregious overpayment.

I love what Ferland brings and hope that he's bringing it for a while for the Canes, but I'd easily take that money and invest it and some more in a real Top 6 center.

 

[Drivebytrucker]

Why does everybody take less than to play in Tampa Bay than they could elsewhere?

State Income Taxes? Shot at the Cup?

 

[SvechneJerk]

Why does everybody take less than to play in Tampa Bay than they could elsewhere?

State Income Taxes? Shot at the Cup?

I’d say the latter. The former is just a bonus.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Tom Wilson’s contract should be the benchmark. In reality Ferland should be happy with 5x5 based on his track record. He’s getting paid based on a lot of intangibles and not hard numbers. If the dude wants Evander Kane/JVR money someone needs to give him a shake. Those two guys aren’t even worth those contracts and they’ve proven 100000x more than Ferland. 6x6 should be absolute max for him. I won’t like that contract but I’d begrudgingly pay it have a decent top 6 for once since the 2009 season.

 

[bleedgreen]

Do you think he’s worth over 6 million for over 5 years or even more? If not, do you think we should massively overpay just to save face?

I definitely think he’s worth that. Lindy was worth not much less BEFORE this season. It doesn’t matter what his career stats are compared to Skinner. He was an obvious late bloomer. All that matters is the last two years. Over the last day or two suddenly a lot of people are against signing him when it seemed most people wanted him signed a couple of days before that? He brings scoring, physical play, team leadership, has been great in the room.

Nino already is bringing a lot of that? He hasn’t played a game and many Minny fans say he’s been playing horribly. We need both of these guys AND the guy we’re getting from the defenseman. I know we’re playing well lately but we know we’re short a few quality forwards.

The pay scale changed this year. The guy who was 4-5 a year or two ago is 5-6. That’s the cost of business, we can’t act like we won’t pay market or we’re above it. We need quality forwards too badly to let good ones go.

Acting like we can’t look back on the summer trade or make moves based on saving face....

It’s not the point. We had to know this was the price so if we aren’t signing the guy we likely knew we weren’t signing him. The cost hasn’t gone up much. Just feels more and more like Lindy was inexplicably a salary dump and we don’t seem to care about that. I can’t wrap my head around that.

I really don’t like when our media buys into it. No one is questioning it publicly. How can that be? Someone around the team has to be willing to question this publicly locally. The rest of the league doesn’t have the problem.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

I made some similar points yesterday. No one gave a ****.

Id have liked it, but i was busy drinking.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Why does everybody take less than to play in Tampa Bay than they could elsewhere?

State Income Taxes? Shot at the Cup?

Florida 2s > Alberta 10s

 

[Lempo]

I made some similar points yesterday. No one gave a ****.

Yeah but he dressed it up as a mainboard wisdom.

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

Florida 2s > Alberta 10s

Have you been to Alberta?

 

[CanesFanBudMan]

Have you been to Alberta?

Or Florida?

 

[NotOpie]

I definitely think he’s worth that. Lindy was worth not much less BEFORE this season. It doesn’t matter what his career stats are compared to Skinner. He was an obvious late bloomer. All that matters is the last two years. Over the last day or two suddenly a lot of people are against signing him when it seemed most people wanted him signed a couple of days before that? He brings scoring, physical play, team leadership, has been great in the room.

Nino already is bringing a lot of that? He hasn’t played a game and many Minny fans say he’s been playing horribly. We need both of these guys AND the guy we’re getting from the defenseman. I know we’re playing well lately but we know we’re short a few quality forwards.

The pay scale changed this year. The guy who was 4-5 a year or two ago is 5-6. That’s the cost of business, we can’t act like we won’t pay market or we’re above it. We need quality forwards too badly to let good ones go.

Acting like we can’t look back on the summer trade or make moves based on saving face....

It’s not the point. We had to know this was the price so if we aren’t signing the guy we likely knew we weren’t signing him. The cost hasn’t gone up much. Just feels more and more like Lindy was inexplicably a salary dump and we don’t seem to care about that. I can’t wrap my head around that.

I really don’t like when our media buys into it. No one is questioning it publicly. How can that be? Someone around the team has to be willing to question this publicly locally. The rest of the league doesn’t have the problem.

I think a lot of the reporting is specious at best. Pretty certain that we're getting "narrative" as opposed to facts....from both sides. I'm on record (to use a Matt Karash phrase) saying I'd pay the guy up to $5.5 million over 5 years (although I'd prefer less). I'd pay him more on a 4 year deal and wouldn't really want a 6 year deal, but, I guess, I might be able to swallow $5.25 million per year over 6 years. I just don't see the guy as a $6 million forward. This is truly where I wish the NHL allowed performance bonuses for UFAs.

 

[SaskCanesFan]

I don't know who to believe as there seems to be a lot of pushing of narratives. If Ferland signs somewhere else for 5-5.5 after the Canes let him walk I'll be pissed. If he's really asking for Kane money then I get it.

Didn't like the original reporting that Nino in means Ferland is gone, but here's a thought. What if the Canes trade Ferland for futures, then use that + their own futures to get JT Miller from Tampa? Sounds like he may be on the way out, is a big body LH that is locked into the salary we're all ok with Ferland getting. Still have a RHD trade possible as well to get another forward. If that's the way things end up I think I'm ok with it

 

[DougieSmash]

I'm fine with Miller. I think we gonna try for him in the summer. That means our long term top six gonna be:

Miller/ Aho/ TT
Niederreiter/ Necas?/ Svechnikov

btw. Miller is Plymouth Whalers. I like him, he's underrated. Add Silfverberg, too.

 

[bleedgreen]

So in between periods in the Calgary game the local guys talked about Ferland being a name around the league maybe moving and one of them who knows Ferland enough to talk to him personally says that Ferland told him that contract talks have earnestly begun. That Ferland has loved living in Carolina from day one and earnestly wishes to stay and was hopeful they could come to a deal. Ferland told him that the trade rumors were premature and that (not verbatim at this point) that the situation wasn’t as bad as it seemed.

This was in the context of a conversation about other teams, and possibly the Flames acquiring him down the stretch. On Calgary TV. The guys tone was completely “he’s found a home and wants to stay, and we want the best for him and hope it works out”.

Then the guy speculated that the cost may be 5-6 and speculated 8 years. That part was pure speculation though.

 

[Lempo]

The 8 years option is obviously only available for extension. If he hits Free Agency then it's seven at max.