Player Discussion Evgeny Kuznetsov

[Langway]

How about Keenan (8), Sather (7), Burns (14)? The list does go on. And the point someone else put out there was winning a Cup (after 9 years) which I've debunked easily, not making a Conf Final or any other round.

If you think Trotz will never get it done, why watch at all? I'm not sold that he will, because we're the Caps, but I'm not ready to say never. He going to be here a while, better get used to it (unless they miss the playoffs).

Trotz has been behind an NHL bench for 17 seasons now, though. That's more than anyone ever has taken to finally win it. He's ninth all-time in wins with only Quinn ahead of him to have never won a Cup and he'll pass him next season unless he gets axed at some point (rather doubtful).

Sure, he took over an expansion team that was also a budget team but he can't get never being out of the second round at any point completely written off. You'd think some of those Nashville teams could have squeaked out two rounds at some point if defense alone was the thing of champions. Not so much and there's nothing to suggest he's really all that more balanced on a more fundamental level. It is unfortunately more likely, barring a staff/organizational change, that they continue doing what they do and maybe upgrade personnel a bit.

I probably won't watch them much next year in the regular season, especially if they don't take on more of an internal developmental approach in trying to become a fundamentally smarter team offensively. While there's a fair argument to be made for organizational stability and its perks, there also needs to be accountability and a sense that until they win it all they still have much to improve upon. It's been obvious during both runs that they do and yet just being close in games seems like enough for Trotz.

As much as he blasts the team and their lack of killer instinct, he's never ever had a team or been in a situation where he's had it either. He deserves credit for building Nashville along with Poile but he also never had the expectations like there is here. I don't know if it's intentional or based on regular season success over an internal standard but his conduct in the playoffs seems a lot like a guy that still believes he's an underdog and is expected to lose. He wants to keep it close and as long as that happens, well, that's just hockey. It's not good enough. They play way too much on their heels and that's ultimately on him more than anyone.

 

[RandyHolt]

.....


I don't know if it's intentional or based on regular season success over an internal standard but his conduct in the playoffs seems a lot like a guy that still believes he's an underdog and is expected to lose. He wants to keep it close and as long as that happens, well, that's just hockey. It's not good enough. They play way too much on their heels and that's ultimately on him more than anyone.

I think this is as good of an explanation of his meh playoff approach that I have heard yet

I am not sure he can change after 17 years, but adding an offensive minded assistant is a great starting point, as suggested by posters previously.

 

[Ajax1995]

You think we were average talent?

I think you are selling Ovi Nick Holts Troy Ward Kuz MJ Green Nisky Alzner Carlson, among a few others, short.

Well they did miss the playoffs right before Trotz joined the team so how stacked could they have been? And Niskanen signed after Trotz joined the team. And Kuznetsov was far from the guy we saw in the first 5 months of this season.

I'm not saying they didn't have some very nice pieces but to pretend Trotz simply walked behind the bench of some great team is absurd IMO.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Trotz has been behind an NHL bench for 17 seasons now, though. That's more than anyone ever has taken to finally win it. He's ninth all-time in wins with only Quinn ahead of him to have never won a Cup and he'll pass him next season unless he gets axed at some point (rather doubtful).

Sure, he took over an expansion team that was also a budget team but he can't get never being out of the second round at any point completely written off. You'd think some of those Nashville teams could have squeaked out two rounds at some point if defense alone was the thing of champions. Not so much and there's nothing to suggest he's really all that more balanced on a more fundamental level. It is unfortunately more likely, barring a staff/organizational change, that they continue doing what they do and maybe upgrade personnel a bit.

I probably won't watch them much next year in the regular season, especially if they don't take on more of an internal developmental approach in trying to become a fundamentally smarter team offensively. While there's a fair argument to be made for organizational stability and its perks, there also needs to be accountability and a sense that until they win it all they still have much to improve upon. It's been obvious during both runs that they do and yet just being close in games seems like enough for Trotz.

As much as he blasts the team and their lack of killer instinct, he's never ever had a team or been in a situation where he's had it either. He deserves credit for building Nashville along with Poile but he also never had the expectations like there is here. I don't know if it's intentional or based on regular season success over an internal standard but his conduct in the playoffs seems a lot like a guy that still believes he's an underdog and is expected to lose. He wants to keep it close and as long as that happens, well, that's just hockey. It's not good enough. They play way too much on their heels and that's ultimately on him more than anyone.

That's the thing....expansion team and budget team. I'd have to analyze each series matchup where Nville lost before I say how likely or unlikely it should have been for his team's to advance. I can't think of any huge upsets off the top of my head where they should have advanced, but like I said, I'd have to really dig into each series. I will agree with you on him keeping it conservative/playing like an underdog. He should have rotated 92 & 19 long before he did. He seems like a "let the players work it out" coach. I'm not sure hiring an offensive minded assistant as I've seen suggested here, does a thing to change that.

This team has deferred to 8 for so long, over every single coaching regime. They live by the PP in the regular season and die by it in the playoffs.

Maybe Ted and Co. Just keep hiring the wrong guys, but how many coaches do you keep shuffling through before you take a harsher look at the guys on the ice?

 

[Raikkonen]

This team has deferred to 8 for so long, over every single coaching regime. They live by the PP in the regular season and die by it in the playoffs.

They should try to build true 1st line without Ovi and then make Ovi's line good enough for him to produce.

Like

X-Backstrom-Oshie = true top-6 line, has to have absolute best LW available

Ovechkin-Mojo/Kuzy-body = Ovechkin's personal line

Then some good 3rd line

Actually, Ovi's center has to be like more offensively capable Beagle. It's really enough.

They won't adopt such a thing. So I want to see 8-92-65(?) there and be pleased.

 

[SpinningEdge]

Kuzy could have Crosby type seasons and put together insane numbers.

He could also be the next Semin.

That's what I'm worried about. Kuzy obviously works harder than Semin - but I think a 4-5 year deal is max caps should do. Not a big 8 year deal.

6.5 x 4

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Kuzy could have Crosby type seasons and put together insane numbers.

He could also be the next Semin.

That's what I'm worried about. Kuzy obviously works harder than Semin - but I think a 4-5 year deal is max caps should do. Not a big 8 year deal.

6.5 x 4

I think it's time to speculate what Kuzy would get on his new deal. 4-5 years seems like the right length, I'd say given his disappearing act in the last 30 games, he'd get $5.5 or $6M. If he makes up for it next year, he could be in the $7M range.

 

[shtorm2005]

 

[Hivemind]

Barring a complete disaster next season, there's no way Kuzy signs for less than $6.5M. I'd be willing to bet $7.5M+

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Barring a complete disaster next season, there's no way Kuzy signs for less than $6.5M. I'd be willing to bet $7.5M+

He better show something after Jan 1 2017 if he wants a huge payday. A half disaster like this season would raise some pretty big flags if you're the Caps.

 

[txpd]

Maybe Ted and Co. Just keep hiring the wrong guys, but how many coaches do you keep shuffling through before you take a harsher look at the guys on the ice?

Which guys on the ice do you want to look harsher at? there are 3 players on this team that lost to the Pens the first time. Ovechkin, Backstrom and Beagle. You can add Carlson, Chimera and Alzner(1 game) for the Montreal debacle.

 

[txpd]

Barring a complete disaster next season, there's no way Kuzy signs for less than $6.5M. I'd be willing to bet $7.5M+

what is your definition of disaster?

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Which guys on the ice do you want to look harsher at? there are 3 players on this team that lost to the Pens the first time. Ovechkin, Backstrom and Beagle. You can add Carlson, Chimera and Alzner(1 game) for the Montreal debacle.

All of them.

 

[txpd]

All of them.

ok...so you want to trade Ovechkin? you do realize how hard it will be to get another center nearly as good as Nicklas Backstrom? You don't get them in the UFA market. You rarely get a chance to draft one. They don't get traded.

Ovechkin is a once in 25 years player. Once these guys are gone you don't get players as good to replace them.

 

[Hivemind]

what is your definition of disaster?

0.5 point/game or less.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

0.5 point/game or less.

I'd say half of his production from this year would certainly count as a disaster.

 

[twabby]

It's frustrating to see Kuznetsov's lack of production in the playoffs, but he had almost double the number of even strength assists as Nicklas Backstrom (44 to 23) and 59 even strength points total last season. Barring injury I can't see Kuznetsov having a poor season, and I certainly don't think the league "figured him out".

While he probably wasn't at his best in the playoffs, he and his line were also just unlucky. It's hard to accept and it sounds like excuse-making but it's also important not to overreact. Sidney Crosby had an underwhelming first half of the season and an underwhelming series against the Capitals, but you certainly don't expect that to be his norm.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

ok...so you want to trade Ovechkin? you do realize how hard it will be to get another center nearly as good as Nicklas Backstrom? You don't get them in the UFA market. You rarely get a chance to draft one. They don't get traded.

Ovechkin is a once in 25 years player. Once these guys are gone you don't get players as good to replace them.

Oh please....way to rookie poster it and jump the the most outrageous solution... Come on Tex...


You know damn well I've said over and over you never trade an Ovechkin. You keep building around him and only him for now.

I've also said the list of guys I would trade 19 for is short. I'd really have to think it over, but he's by no means untouchable if your GM makes a good hockey trade (or 2).

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I'd say half of his production from this year would certainly count as a disaster.

Bingo.

 

[txpd]

0.5 point/game or less.

you think that if he follows up a late season collapse and playoff flame out with a 55-60 point season that he is going to be able to carry a $7.5m contract demand?

No chance.

 

[txpd]

Oh please....way to rookie poster it and jump the the most outrageous solution... Come on Tex...


You know damn well I've said over and over you never trade an Ovechkin. You keep building around him and only him for now.

I've also said the list of guys I would trade 19 for is short. I'd really have to think it over, but he's by no means untouchable if your GM makes a good hockey trade (or 2).

demean my question if you want to. the weight that Ov and Backstrom carry grows with each playoff failure. You can make a fair case that even without fault being their's for these last two playoff failures its gotten too hard to get over the hump in the Ov era.

You said take a harsher look at the players and then said all of them. If you are not going to take a harsh look at those two and you are not going to then focus on Alzner, Niskane and Carlson and then Holtby, you are really just playing around at the edges again.

 

[Hivemind]

you think that if he follows up a late season collapse and playoff flame out with a 55-60 point season that he is going to be able to carry a $7.5m contract demand?

No chance.

Absolutely. That's what a 31 year-old Jason Spezza just signed after 66 and 62 point seasons (and essentially missing the entire lockout year before that). Bobby Ryan, who's essentially a career 50-60 point scorer, has a $7.25M cap hit. Stastny has a $7M contract despite not scoring >60 points since 2010. Tarasenko just signed a $7.5M deal after just one great season.

The only way Kuzy signs for "cheap" (~$6-6.5M) is if he's taking a bridge deal.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

demean my question if you want to. the weight that Ov and Backstrom carry grows with each playoff failure. You can make a fair case that even without fault being their's for these last two playoff failures its gotten too hard to get over the hump in the Ov era.

You said take a harsher look at the players and then said all of them. If you are not going to take a harsh look at those two and you are not going to then focus on Alzner, Niskane and Carlson and then Holtby, you are really just playing around at the edges again.

The question doesn't need to be demeaned as it was absurd from the beginning. You don't trade 8. not sure why you continue to trot the idea out...you must want him run out of town or something...

 

[artilector]

Caps don't have plan B as far as Kuznetsov.
You know he's gonna put up numbers in regular season, and that means he's gonna get paid -- and the Caps are gonna have to pay him next year. Because there's no alternative.
Then yes, you have to hope that he evolves into a consistent playoff performer.
But to dump him early would be even crazier... nobody will give you a good 2C back if he struggles, so it would just create a big hole in the lineup.
I think he'll be fine, just sucks if it happens after this window.

 

[sycamore]

Kuz needs to be given a better line. Old Man Williams and Andre "Take my lunch money, please!" Burakovsky are not going to cut it.