Player Discussion Evgeny Kuznetsov

[AlexBrovechkin8]

He's just not very good right now.

 

[RandyHolt]

Damn a post vanished. Cliff Ronning Notes

Agree with Twabs, low to high isn't working for Kuz, nor us. Our offensive D men only have 1 goal this year. It's easy to see nothing much comes from the points moving it down to the crease. We need a lot more screening to make it work.

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

Throw him on wing

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Throw him on wing

I want him on a wing with 90-19. Let 19 shoulder the load and get 92 back on track. I mean why not try it?

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Any time a player is slow to react and looks confused he's got too many conflicting instructions and thoughts in his head. Kuz was known for his high hockey IQ and quick thinking, and suddenly he can't figure anything out? He needs to be more physical to find space? I don't buy that at all if that's what Trotz and pals are pumping into his head.

When Kuz came up he needed some time to adjust and study the NHL, then he found all the open spaces and made great plays without adding to his physical game. Why would that change? Other players in this league have had similar styles. It's not like every single player in the NHL has to have 50% grind in his toolbox to succeed. This is myopia from within the Trotz Tryhard Bubble.

When you're a hammer then everything looks like a nail. Trotz is an effort hammer. He doesn't seem like the kind of coach that prioritizes skill enough to be looking for ways to put players in position to succeed. It's all effort and merit...paying dues.

Why give one of the most talented rosters we've had to a guy who wants to turn them all into robotic grinders? So bringing this back to Kuz, I still think Trotz has him twisted up. Turn the kid loose. Put him with guys who he can work with. Maybe move him to wing if he'd like that. Just see what happens.

More coach blame?

At some point the players should be held accountable since they actually play the game. 92 is in his own head. Hard to blame a coach for mental frailty in my eyes. The rest of the league has adjusted and Kuzy hasn't.

I dunno, probably Trotz is part of the issue to some degree and I'm just tired of 10 years worth of scapegoating this coach or that? At some point we have to start looking at our stars critically.

 

[twabby]

I'm not in favor of throwing him on wing, but I'm not against it completely either for a few games. If I had to create a lineup with him on wing when Oshie returns to the lineup, I guess I'd go with:

90-19-65 (tre kronor is a fantastic line)
8-20-77 (Ovechkin and Oshie work well together)
92-83-14 (two defensively responsible forwards with Kuzy, along with some offensive ability)
10/26-82-43 (standard 4th line)

I dunno it's very hard to come up with a good lineup with Kuznetsov at wing because Eller is not really a great 2C.

 

[g00n]

More coach blame?

At some point the players should be held accountable since they actually play the game. 92 is in his own head. Hard to blame a coach for mental frailty in my eyes. The rest of the league has adjusted and Kuzy hasn't.

Yeah, I'm blaming the coach for failing to play to the strengths of the roster and manage players individually, at least from what we can see (of course it's not all of it). If Trotz wants square pegs for his square hole system then that's what he should be using, not round peg guys like Kuz.

You can absolutely pin mental issues on coaching if the coach is contributing. It's a huge part of coaching. The mental side is probably more than half the game, not Xs and Os, from a coaching standpoint. And if you're taking a guy out of his element and screwing up his instincts/training/reaction times, then you're making him a worse player even if your system and methods work with other guys.

Like I said, Trotz is an effort hammer and has been the same basic guy with the same basic philosophies for decades. FFS "will over skill" is their damn motto this year!!

 

[g00n]

Look at it this way...do we blame Jay Beagle when Trotz or Hunter tries to put him at 1C? No. That's on the coach for trying to make the guy into something he's not. It works the other way, too.

Kuz is not Beagle, and vice versa. Don't try to make them be.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Yeah, I'm blaming the coach for failing to play to the strengths of the roster and manage players individually, at least from what we can see (of course it's not all of it). If Trotz wants square pegs for his square hole system then that's what he should be using, not round peg guys like Kuz.

You can absolutely pin mental issues on coaching if the coach is contributing. It's a huge part of coaching. The mental side is probably more than half the game, not Xs and Os, from a coaching standpoint. And if you're taking a guy out of his element and screwing up his instincts/training/reaction times, then you're making him a worse player even if your system and methods work with other guys.

Like I said, Trotz is an effort hammer and has been the same basic guy with the same basic philosophies for decades. FFS "will over skill" is their damn motto this year!!

What exactly are the strengths of this roster? Once you tell us those, tell us how those strength in a more wide open system translate into advancing in the postseason.

You're making it sound like Trotz has lost the room. You're way overemphasizing some imaginary issue that the coach is causing as much as what, 55% negative impact according to you on the team performance? Remind me again, we're still 4pts out of the East lead even after a little rough patch and some injuries right?

At the end of the day I still see fans willing to overlook a players warts and ready to blame another coaching staff and GM.

Do you really have a problem with a coach demanding that his team impose their will on their opponent each night? My god. Will over skill means our will beats their skill, not Our skill is sacrificed in the process.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Look at it this way...do we blame Jay Beagle when Trotz or Hunter tries to put him at 1C? No. That's on the coach for trying to make the guy into something he's not. It works the other way, too.

Kuz is not Beagle, and vice versa. Don't try to make them be.

When the coaching staff makes a roster decision like that for a short time, you can see no reasons why it's done? It's not like they anointed 92 the 4C until 2018.

There's plenty of logic in a short term move.

 

[um]

Look at it this way...do we blame Jay Beagle when Trotz or Hunter tries to put him at 1C? No. That's on the coach for trying to make the guy into something he's not. It works the other way, too.

Kuz is not Beagle, and vice versa. Don't try to make them be.

agreed, we gotta stop playing Kuznetsov with Ovechkin and putting him on the first power play unit. But seriously Trotz has given Kuznetsov many chances to find his game again going back to last year and he's been putting him in position he should excel at again this year. This is all on Kuznetsov and it's starting to look like last season was a one hit wonder.

 

[Hivemind]

It's not about Kuznetsov being slotted in as 1C or 2C or 3C or 4C. It's about what the coaching staff is asking of him. If they're the ones insisting he drive the puck into corners and play this "low-to-high" style of hockey, then the blame is largely on the coaching staff.

 

[Langway]

What exactly are the strengths of this roster?

It's a pretty mixed bag, not unlike most teams. There isn't a particular strength beyond discipline, team defense, special teams and goaltending when on. The concern is finesse skill forwards lacking confidence with very little to no urgency to play to what they actually do well. I get the importance of development and team concepts but development isn't just about addressing weaknesses and team concepts can't be one-dimensional. 92/65 very likely need more tempo to have the space needed for their skill to make a difference. They're not going to grind through players to create room. They're not going to crash the net in a bogged down territorial slog. They have neither the inclination nor the strength to do so. It goes back to tactics and not forcing the entire team to play the same way. If that's how it must be they should trade one or both of 92/65 for some good ol' North American forwards more willing to do dirty work.

At the end of the day I still see fans willing to overlook a players warts and ready to blame another coaching staff and GM.

Do you really have a problem with a coach demanding that his team impose their will on their opponent each night? My god. Will over skill means our will beats their skill, not Our skill is sacrificed in the process.

It's not so much overlooking warts as being realistic that if a player isn't thriving playing a particular way the coach needs to have some flexibility in order to get the most out of them. Great coaches find those buttons to push. It's a struggle Trotz seems fully comfortable forcing them to plow through so long as the team picks up points. The buttons he pushes seem fairly limited, though, all around (at least outwardly).

They can't surrender refining crucial areas of the game by bracketing the game with old school values. Teams with more of a progressive approach will find and exploit weaknesses more easily than some blind appeal to outwork because they're frankly more intelligent in how they think the game. Give me the smarter team...and history isn't kind on Washington being that team. That's not just on the players but if the staff wants to believe that they need to back it up with some action. If this style is The Answer and there's no room for tweaks then it may be that some fits are untenable.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

It's a pretty mixed bag, not unlike most teams. There isn't a particular strength beyond discipline, team defense, special teams and goaltending when on. The concern is finesse skill forwards lacking confidence with very little to no urgency to play to what they actually do well. I get the importance of development and team concepts but development isn't just about addressing weaknesses and team concepts can't be one-dimensional. 92/65 very likely need more tempo to have the space needed for their skill to make a difference. They're not going to grind through players to create room. They're not going to crash the net in a bogged down territorial slog. They have neither the inclination nor the strength to do so. It goes back to tactics and not forcing the entire team to play the same way. If that's how it must be they should trade one or both of 92/65 for some good ol' North American forwards more willing to do dirty work.

It's not so much overlooking warts as being realistic that if a player isn't thriving playing a particular way the coach needs to have some flexibility in order to get the most out of them. Great coaches find those buttons to push. It's a struggle Trotz seems fully comfortable forcing them to plow through so long as the team picks up points. The buttons he pushes seem fairly limited, though, all around (at least outwardly).

They can't surrender refining crucial areas of the game by bracketing the game with old school values. Teams with more of a progressive approach will find and exploit weaknesses more easily than some blind appeal to outwork because they're frankly more intelligent in how they think the game. Give me the smarter team...and history isn't kind on Washington being that team. That's not just on the players but if the staff wants to believe that they need to back it up with some action. If this style is The Answer and there's no room for tweaks then it may be that some fits are untenable.

Which is exactly where my head is at. If those are this roster's strengths, then it seems to make sense that a defensively responsible system like Trotz's, is playing exactly to their strengths.

You may be onto something about a player or two not being a good fit, but why did 92 have such great success last season before going dark? Something is off and sports psychology would be my first guess/solution for 92. Maybe all the buttons have been pushed?

...so much less worried about 65....not even close. He's hit a dry patch....happens to everyone.

This may come down to someone getting moved.

 

[trick9]

Which is exactly where my head is at. If those are this roster's strengths, then it seems to make sense that a defensively responsible system like Trotz's, is playing exactly to their strengths.

You may be onto something about a player or two not being a good fit, but why did 92 have such great success last season before going dark? Something is off and sports psychology would be my first guess/solution for 92. Maybe all the buttons have been pushed?

...so much less worried about 65....not even close. He's hit a dry patch....happens to everyone.

This may come down to someone getting moved.

Who do you think it would be?

 

[RandyHolt]

It's not about Kuznetsov being slotted in as 1C or 2C or 3C or 4C. It's about what the coaching staff is asking of him. If they're the ones insisting he drive the puck into corners and play this "low-to-high" style of hockey, then the blame is largely on the coaching staff.

Saved me the typing.

Trotz would get the benefit of the doubt from me Kuz be damned IF the team dominated as Kuz's slump started, but we all know it is the opposite. Trotz implemented a new game plan post blizzard, and it was easy to see, notably from all the odd mans we suddenly allowed, to our horrific starts to games.

I question why he didn't abandon ship and go back to what worked the first 2/3rds of the season.

Trotz has been coaching adults probably longer than Kuz has been playing hockey. He should have some things to try, and have dealt with slumping scorers a hundred + times. Does Trotz have developing elite skill Russians on his resume?

 

[txpd]

great read here lately. should we go ahead and throw Trotz under the bus for Burakovsky??

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Who do you think it would be?

I mean it could be anyone. Could be a minor deal to shock the team, or a monster roster shaping deal. Ponder this though...what if Caps management is suddenly very wary of having to pay 92 a monster contract? This is long since past a dry spell, this appears to be serious....as in the player is damaged and needs a change of scenery, or all of the sudden, one night last season, he became a "bad fit" for the system....

It's right up there with the mysteries of the universe for this Caps fan.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

great read here lately. should we go ahead and throw Trotz under the bus for Burakovsky??

All signs point to YES.

 

[trick9]

Saved me the typing.

Trotz would get the benefit of the doubt from me Kuz be damned IF the team dominated as Kuz's slump started, but we all know it is the opposite. Trotz implemented a new game plan post blizzard, and it was easy to see, notably from all the odd mans we suddenly allowed, to our horrific starts to games.

I question why he didn't abandon ship and go back to what worked the first 2/3rds of the season.

Trotz has been coaching adults probably longer than Kuz has been playing hockey. He should have some things to try, and have dealt with slumping scorers a hundred + times. Does Trotz have developing elite skill Russians on his resume?

Did he?

To me it just looked like the team came after that blizzard break like they just won the Stanley Cup and the effort just wasn't there because they had pretty much secured their Playoff spot at that point. It was a rare occasion when they actually moved their legs in the 1st period after that break which lead to all those early goals against. They showed some sparks when they were behind in games but i don't recall too many games where they had full 60-minute effort.

Some of that were on Trotz but that's mostly on the players.

I mean it could be anyone. Could be a minor deal to shock the team, or a monster roster shaping deal. Ponder this though...what if Caps management is suddenly very wary of having to pay 92 a monster contract? This is long since past a dry spell, this appears to be serious....as in the player is damaged and needs a change of scenery, or all of the sudden, one night last season, he became a "bad fit" for the system....

It's right up there with the mysteries of the universe for this Caps fan.

Then they trade him. If they feel that he suddenly doesn't deserve a top-6 C contract then there is no doubt he's getting traded. He'd bring them a huge haul back in trade so there would be no sense to keep him because of his trade value. He's still tied 6th in the NHL (2 points from 3rd) in ESP since the start of last season (100-game sample size) despite his slump and i'm sure there are tons of teams that would love to get their hands on potential 1C that is on a bargain contract and still RFA at the end of the season.

 

[bur and 666 others]

I can't figure out Kuznetsov. First of all, he has been always awful along the boards in the O zone. Even last year, but because he had the speed and was quick, he could drive the play and do his twister pass. Also I remember numerous times last year when actually Burakovsky retrieved the puck for him along the board while he was pushed away and that says a lot. This season the same thing, maybe even worst... But this season he's been actually good along the boards in the D zone. I feel he's improved his D zone play significantly this year (i could be wrong, just eye test) and now always anticipates where the puck will go in the D zone.

What I'm trying to say. In his first year, he was good in O zone, but kind of watched the play in the D zone and was behind the play in the D. But this season is vise versa. He is watching the play in the O zone and good in D zone. While last year he was quick in both and neutral zones, less puck watching.

 

[Raikkonen]

Scientific doom. Realistic gloom. Good stuff.

 

[RandyHolt]

Did he?

....

I may be the only one that overnight saw our LDs very aggressive moving up in center ice, and our C's led by Kuz, struggling to get back to cover. As his game went off a cliff.

If you didn't see that, certainly you noticed the odd mans to start games that resulted, and went from the blizzard through Pitt game 4. In game 5, Barry finally abandoned this failed plan. Holtby wasn't exactly stopping all those early odd mans.

Is there a website that tracks odd mans by game? For a Jennings grade team defense, it was almost unprecedented. The ironic thing is, you'd think the D stepping up would actually succeed every now and then, and we'd get an odd man for. Yet we rarely to never got odd mans during this time.

I remember being the only poster pointing out repeated odd mans in the GDTs, but cannot be the only one that remember them.

I find it a bit unthinkable that our players forgot how to play after the blizzard. Something else happened, right?

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Mystery blizzard system change? I didn't see it nor hear it. Imagination is a powerful thing.

 

[RandyHolt]

So is denial

We know you already pushed all in on it being Kuz's fault, and his problem to fix.

Do you remember ANY odd mans against us in the playoffs... how about Cullen's breakaway GM4 goal after a center ice faceoff. When was that ultra aggressive D up C back style implemented. Did you see that all season... or? Imagine what that does to a high scoring C's priority list. Nick, D is his middle initial, and even he struggled.

https://www.nhl.com/video/cullens-goal-on-breakaway/t-280503564/c-43854103

It's not a coincidence he finally shelved this dumb approach for the very next game. He also FINALLY caved and tried Kuz with Ovi down 3-1, as I actually predicted he would wait to do, a month+ before that