Proposal: Eichel to Rangers

[Kaapo Bustfreniere]

If you argue with statistics, more data is in most cases more predictive, than excluding a certain sample. Should we exclude games against Philly, because those mini series don't happen in a normal NHL season?

Again totally missing the point of my original point.

But since you want to argue about statistics:you always want to have data that are as replicable as possible. If we want to apply that on this example, then if a hockey player is streaky or often suffers from say neck injuries that slow him down, that is something that will likely keep on happening. So if you include data from both his hot and cold streaks and from games where he suffered from repeated injuries, that is fine. Bacause that would be a representative sample - which you always want. 3 points in 15 games at the beginning of the season is a huge statistical outlier for Zibanejad´s production - even more so when you look at the last 3 ears since he really broke out. And suffering from a postcovid syndrome that he seems to have recovered from is something that will most likley never happen again. As such, it does NOT present a representative sample and can be excluded.

 

[Kupo]

Not exactly Bob McKenzie level intel here

is the world round or flat? What did this blogger say?

When I was a kid the team trainer lived 3 doors down from me. I saw Scotty Bowman 5 feet from me walking down the street with lityke Stan by his side. Am I connected enough?

new GM in the league some will call seeing if a player wants to be traded and low ball an offer. This doesn’t mean trade talk.

it’s friggin click bait....

It wasn’t a blogger who shared that information. It was a vetted poster who’s been in these boards for over two decades.

 

[haveandare]

I just don’t see how the rangers can trade for him and end up better for it. Everything else aside, his actual contributions on the ice are going to be similar to what Mika already provides and getting him means losing Mika. The stability is worth a lot but even a reasonable price is going to set the team back a bunch and they’re not exactly world beaters yet as is. They can move Mika to recoup something but as a pending UFA he’s not going to return enough to make up for what Eichel costs in any real way.

 

[LoveGoons]

I just don’t see how the rangers can trade for him and end up better for it. Everything else aside, his actual contributions on the ice are going to be similar to what Mika already provides and getting him means losing Mika. The stability is worth a lot but even a reasonable price is going to set the team back a bunch and they’re not exactly world beaters yet as is. They can move Mika to recoup something but as a pending UFA he’s not going to return enough to make up for what Eichel costs in any real way.

This the dumb way the rangers did things in the pass.. don’t trade for E. Trade for someone that can win a face off and three grit players. This team is toilet paper soft!!

 

[Djp]

I just don’t see how the rangers can trade for him and end up better for it. Everything else aside, his actual contributions on the ice are going to be similar to what Mika already provides and getting him means losing Mika. The stability is worth a lot but even a reasonable price is going to set the team back a bunch and they’re not exactly world beaters yet as is. They can move Mika to recoup something but as a pending UFA he’s not going to return enough to make up for what Eichel costs in any real way.

go for your logic.....

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

No...you are getting a near PPG player when he plays with Panarin....in Strome.

No one in their right mind trades for Strome THINKING he is a PPG player.

No one seems to realize this that isn't a Rangers fan, but Strome has not had problem scoring for the Rangers without Panarin. I'm not saying you are suggesting this, but I have a hard time believing Strome is any lower than a 50-55 point player without Panarin. He was picked where he was in the draft for a reason. I know he struggled earlier in his career, but I don't know how people could deny he's a talented player. He's not some no talent career AHL'er leaching off one of the best players in the league. Panarin might've helped him reach his potential and makes his totals look better, but Strome is a good hockey player.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

When neither is stapled to Panarin? About 50.

I'm probably about as big of an Eichel fan as you will find that isn't a Sabres fan, but you are really underrating Strome. Strome isn't some 35-40 point player without Panarin. He has proven he can play without Panarin. It's insulting that people view him as Panarin's assistant as opposed to a good NHL'er.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

• Strome is a 3C.

By what measure?

This is such an ignorant take. Strome in games for the Rangers that Panarin hasn't played in has 43 points in 75 games, and most of those came when he was playing much lower minutes than he plays now.

Just because your team couldn't get the best out of Strome doesn't mean you need to insult his ability.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

NYR are going to have to give two of Fox/Laf/Kakko/Chytil/Sherterkin to start the conversation. There'd be more to work out but without two of those listed it's not going anywhere

Fox, Lafreniere, and Shestyorkin are not going to be traded.

I think I'd prefer not to try to trade for Eichel, but if the Rangers put forth an offer I don't think Kakko and Chytil would be off-limits.

I could see something like Kakko, Chytil, Lundkvist/Schneider, 1st, and maybe some minor pieces to make salary work. Thats four first round assets being acquired, including a center to replace Eichel, and a 2OA. I'm not convinced another team is offering anything better than that, but if they do, they can top that with no real disappointment on the Rangers part. I highly doubt the Rangers are parting with any of their top players for Eichel.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

We have seen what playing with a superstar like Panarin can do to an average/below average player like Ryan Strome

Anything to back this up? Because stats aren't on your side. How many games have you even seen of Strome in recent seasons or you just subscribe to the faulty narratives of this website

 

[CatchyTune]

Anything to back this up? Because stats aren't on your side. How many games have you even seen of Strome in recent seasons or you just subscribe to the faulty narratives of this website

ever since he started playing with Panarin his production has increased significantly. thats all i'm trying to say.

wasnt even trying to insult him, i was complimenting Panarins ability to work with less than desirable talent.

 

[Der Jaeger]

I wrote this a few months ago in the other Eichel thread. It was in response to a solid Rangers’ offer that Buffalo would likely not accept.

It's not the holistic offer, and that's the point that you, and a lot of Rangers fans on this thread, are missing. You don't understand where this team came form, or its organizational memory, and that's why your offers don't make sense and won't fly.

The owners of the team know that centers are extremely hard to find. They bought the Sabres after the previous management bumbled the negotiations for Drury and Briere and lost them both to free agency. That gutted the team. Despite having all world talents like Miller, Vanek, Pominville, and a Calder Trophy winning Tyler Myers, they got bounced from the 1st round in 2010 and 2011, and couldn't make the playoffs in 2012 and 2013.

The tank in Buffalo wasn't about a full rebuild. It was about acquiring the world class centers needed to put together a competitive team. Look at what they did. In a calendar year, the team acquired Ryan O'Reilly and drafted Sam Reinhart and Jack Eichel. That was the course correction.

The previous GM, Jason Botterill, foolishly pissed away O'Reilly to St. Louis for magic beans under the name of roster construction and depth. That back fired and gutted the organization.

I don't think they trade Eichel, at least willingly, because of that history. The current GM, Kevyn Adams, isn't an outsider to the history. He was an assistant coach during the 2012-13 failed runs to make the playoffs without good centers. He knows how the team got gutted with the O'Reilly move. He knows that trading Eichel will gut the team. If you knowingly do that, you MUST get a center back who is in the blue chip territory. He won't trade Eichel for help now and organizational depth.

If LA puts Turcotte on the table, that's going to beat the Rangers' offer unless they put LaFreniere on the table. Buffalo isn't playing a game of cumulative offer - Adams is going to want a future franchise center or a top line play driver like LaFreniere. The Rangers offer is good, but as soon as Turcotte or Byfield (I assume LA will offer Turcotte) is on the table, the Sabres are more likely to take that deal.

Your proposed deal:
Chytil
Kravtsov
Schneider
2021 - 1st round pick

What LA could offer to beat it:
Turcotte
Vilardi
Bjornfot
2021 1st

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Buch, Chytil, and Lindgren would get the Sabres attention but trading a generational talent without the possibility of getting one back makes it hard. I think Kakko has to be a part of a deal with the Rangers.

If the Sabres trade Eichel I cant see them doing a trade without a top draft pick coming back, in the draft, or a recent top 5 draft pick.

If I am the Sabres I am asking for:

Kakko (Potential to still be a generational winger)
Chytil (Solid Center Prospect to put with Cozens and Mittelstadt)
NYR 1st 2021
Nils Lundkvist (top prospect)

As a Sabres Fan I still dont want to trade Eichel for this mainly due to the fact he is a generational talent and they dont grow on trees. If we trade him, we wont see another one for a long time. Eichel is a 95 point center on a bad team. Put him on a good team and he can be over 100 easy. Honestly I cant imagine what he would put up with Panarin seeing what Strome is able to do with him....

I think this is a very reasonable take. I definitely don't think those assets would be off-limits in a trade for Eichel. The Rangers aren't going to be able to think that they can just swap Strome for Eichel, add in a back up goalie Georgiyev, and maybe some futures like Kravtsov, Robertson, and think it's going to be anywhere near a viable offer. I don't think the Rangers would want to give up those assets you suggested, but if Eichel is on the table, they might.

Maybe LA beats this offer, as the post above suggests. I don't think the Rangers are gutting their core to bring in Eichel. LA may be thinking the same thing, which is why I'm not convinced any team beats that offer. Giving up a Fox or Shestyorkin or Zibanejad in a trade makes us worse or marginally better to the point where there's no real reason to make such a big deal. If the price isn't detrimental to the future of the franchise, I think they'll make a run. If a team beats that offer and Eichel will accept a trade there, the Rangers can walk away from the table, and keep what they have. They don't need Eichel, by any means.

 

[tsujimoto74]

I'm probably about as big of an Eichel fan as you will find that isn't a Sabres fan, but you are really underrating Strome. Strome isn't some 35-40 point player without Panarin. He has proven he can play without Panarin. It's insulting that people view him as Panarin's assistant as opposed to a good NHL'er.

For those of you keeping score at home, that's a pace of 38.6 points per 82 games before the Rangers signed Panarin and stapled him to Strome's wing.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

You win rangers fans are the worst

Btw the dude had 18 points with him being broken but not worth Kakko

And Cozens has 13 points. Would you trade him so easily?

You are completely missing the point. Kakko's value is almost entirely tied to his potential. Same as most prospects.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Are you kidding? So we can't count the seasons where he's a better hockey player, but we can count the ones where he's worse.

Since joining the Rangers he has 43 points in 75 games when Panarin either was out of the lineup or before he joined the team. And most of those came with a much smaller role than he has now. As I said, Strome is really no worse than a 50-55 point player without Panarin.

I don't know how someone could watch Strome play, and not see his talent. Do you think he was drafted fifth because the Islanders thought he'd leach points off of Panarin nearly 10 years later?

 

[tsujimoto74]

Are you kidding? So we can't count the seasons where he's a better hockey player, but we can count the ones where he's worse.

Since joining the Rangers he has 43 points in 75 games when Panarin either was out of the lineup or before he joined the team. And most of those came with a much smaller role than he has now. As I said, Strome is really no worse than a 50-55 point player without Panarin.

I don't know how someone could watch Strome play, and not see his talent. Do you think he was drafted fifth because the Islanders thought he'd leach points off of Panarin nearly 10 years later?

Are you suggesting we should only count the seasons where he was stapled to Panarin in evaluating how many points he's capable of producing away from Panarin?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Are you suggesting we should only count the seasons where he was stapled to Panarin in evaluating how many points he's capable of producing away from Panarin?

Did you not read what I said? Take away games Panarin was even in the lineup. 75 games Strome has played for the Rangers that Panarin hasn't. 43 points, which is a 47 point pace.

Why should we count games early in his career? Do players not improve as they reach their prime? We have a pretty big sample, 75 games, the past three seasons, where Panarin didn't play.

 

[Tripod]

No one seems to realize this that isn't a Rangers fan, but Strome has not had problem scoring for the Rangers without Panarin. I'm not saying you are suggesting this, but I have a hard time believing Strome is any lower than a 50-55 point player without Panarin. He was picked where he was in the draft for a reason. I know he struggled earlier in his career, but I don't know how people could deny he's a talented player. He's not some no talent career AHL'er leaching off one of the best players in the league. Panarin might've helped him reach his potential and makes his totals look better, but Strome is a good hockey player.

And that is fine to say.

All I was saying is that there s no GM that would "value" Strome as a near PPG player. A 50-60 point guy, and you get traction. A 60-70.....lots of GM's would disagree. A 70-80....and it's likely none.

So when determining value is a trade, other GM's will very well have him pegged as a 50-60 point #2C. Nothing wrong with that.

But if I am the NYR, I see if I am able to sign him as a 50-60 point C should be paid, then reap the rewards of him producing more due to Panarin.

 

[Djp]

Fox, Lafreniere, and Shestyorkin are not going to be traded.

I think I'd prefer not to try to trade for Eichel, but if the Rangers put forth an offer I don't think Kakko and Chytil would be off-limits.

I could see something like Kakko, Chytil, Lundkvist/Schneider, 1st, and maybe some minor pieces to make salary work. Thats four first round assets being acquired, including a center to replace Eichel, and a 2OA. I'm not convinced another team is offering anything better than that, but if they do, they can top that with no real disappointment on the Rangers part. I highly doubt the Rangers are parting with any of their top players for Eichel.

you have to give up assets you loathe to give up. Not expendable high pick busts or magic beans.

 

[Flash20]

And Cozens has 13 points. Would you trade him so easily?

You are completely missing the point. Kakko's value is almost entirely tied to his potential. Same as most prospects.

Yeah if jack eichel wasn't on our team I would easily trade cozens for him

That's a pretty easy decision.

 

[Kupo]

Why should we count games early in his career? Do players not improve as they reach their prime? We have a pretty big sample, 75 games, the past three seasons, where Panarin didn't play.

You’re trying to have a rational conversation with someone who thinks ONLY RANGERS FANS create Eichel To NY proposals.

The irony with him counting the earlier seasons was him neglecting Stromes second season where he put up 50P.

Another fun fact? Panarin is producing more than he ever has in his career with Strome as his center. The two obviously have some chemistry.

Look at Jesper Fasts career. His offensive production didn’t spike when he played with Panarin, and that’s because he doesn’t have the offensive abilities Strome has.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

you have to give up assets you loathe to give up. Not expendable high pick busts or magic beans.

Funny how you call a player a bust less than two years after being drafted.

 

[Flash20]

you have to give up assets you loathe to give up. Not expendable high pick busts or magic beans.

No the dude wants to get jack eichel for free who knows maybe he will toss a 4th rounder for free

 

[Kupo]

you have to give up assets you loathe to give up. Not expendable high pick busts or magic beans.

Who are the high pick busts lol?