Pre-Game Talk: Ducks vs Sharks - series talk

[SirQuacksALot]

Sorry, thought this was the main board thread.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

Of course not. But my point is that the Ducks are capable of winning in the playoffs without Fowler.

The premise wasn't that they're incapable of winning without him, it was that having half of your defense corps as raw young players is a bad option. That isn't what happened last year. That was a different ducks team versus a different opponent.

 

[Terry Yake]

oh god, carlyle really would put bieksa right back into the lineup for game 1 after all the time he's missed wouldn't he?

at this point, i'm honestly not convinced bieksa is even an upgrade over welinski. as for the 4th line, i'm fine with grant-vermette-brown. chimera's good for nothing except beating out icings

 

[Duck Off]

I think the Vermette-Grant-Brown line is probably the best 4th line we can ice right now. Terry hasn't shown he's ready, and Chimera is useless 99% of the time.

 

[HanSolo]

oh god, carlyle really would put bieksa right back into the lineup for game 1 after all the time he's missed wouldn't he?

at this point, i'm honestly not convinced bieksa is even an upgrade over welinski. as for the 4th line, i'm fine with grant-vermette-brown. chimera's good for nothing except beating out icings

Carlyle would put Bieksa in for a game 7 if that's when he was finally ready.

 

[Trojans86]

The X-Factor will be Ryan Kesler.

He needs to at least play decent shutdown hockey if he's not going to score at all. Hopefully the days off will help him a little. I've seen too many games this year where he's mediocre defensively and downright terrible offensively

This is so true. He has been playing drastically better as of late. If he is on then Cogs and Silf start looking much better and they can score while shutting down top lines. If they are off they look like a 4th line.

 

[branmuffin17]

Part of the Hayward commentary in the last game, if I remember correctly, was about Kesler saying that he felt the best he has all season in the last week or so. If he's in fact playing better, then maybe it coincides with that.

 

[Deuce22]

The premise wasn't that they're incapable of winning without him, it was that having half of your defense corps as raw young players is a bad option. That isn't what happened last year. That was a different ducks team versus a different opponent.

First, I don't consider Montour as raw.

Second, I'd prefer raw, young Welinski and Pettersson to experienced Bieksa or Holzer.

 

[AngelDuck]

I think the Vermette-Grant-Brown line is probably the best 4th line we can ice right now. Terry hasn't shown he's ready, and Chimera is useless 99% of the time.

So is Vermette. They both suck. I so wish we had tried to integrate Roy or Kossila into the lineup earlier in the season more...

 

[Terry Yake]

vermette can at least win faceoffs

for that reason alone i'd prefer him to be in the lineup over chimera

 

[DaGeneral]

First, I don't consider Montour as raw.

Second, I'd prefer raw, young Welinski and Pettersson to experienced Bieksa or Holzer.

Over Holzer, sure. But not casual Kev, and I’m a big time Bieksa hater

 

[Getzmonster]

[...] BTW Bieksa last played 3/12. Since then we are 10-1-1. In the last 12 he played we were 5-5-2.

Was just about to post this. I'm not totally against Bieksa replacing Welinski in a vacuum, but having both Beauch (who has played very solid down the stretch) and Bieksa dressed is a recipe for trouble. The team has managed just fine without Bieksa, even after Cam went down. I'd leave it alone.

Heh, maybe I should read the entire thread before posting. Late to the discussion here.

 

[DaGeneral]

Pairings in case anyone is curious, according to ES:

By the way, today's defense pairings were Lindholm-Manson, Beauchemin-Montour, Pettersson-Welinski, Holzer-Bieksa

 

[Getzmonster]

Adequate is how I would put it too. And he barely played when he was actually in the lineup also.

He certainly wasn’t a playoff beast or warrior like a lot are remembering.

I just remember screaming profanities at him far less, and that one diving sweep check to save us from Johnny Gauds getting in alone on Johnny Gibs.

 

[SelanneDucks8]

Glad to be back... now let’s finally bring the cup back to Anaheim

 

[Sean Garrity]

As much as we all hate casual Kev, he was fantastic in last years playoffs, and the playoffs are literally built for him.

 

[Paul4587]

As much as we all hate casual Kev, he was fantastic in last years playoffs, and the playoffs are literally built for him.

Terrific compared to what we are used to seeing from him or terrific in general?

He was just passable in the very limited time he was on the ice during last playoffs. The year before last against Nashville he was terrible.

 

[bsu]

As much as we all hate casual Kev, he was fantastic in last years playoffs, and the playoffs are literally built for him.

Why is everyone acting like he was fantastic lol. He was good on his measures sure but he wasn't anything more than a #5 or solid #6

 

[darkwingduck]

Bieksa was good in the playoffs by bieksa standard.

 

[bsu]

Bieksa was good in the playoffs by bieksa standard.

Which is still not very good

 

[AngelDuck]

Well, he was terrific in that he was an NHL player for those ~20 games.

In no other 20 game sample size in a Ducks sweater has Bieksa really looked like an NHL player consistently to me

 

[Paul4587]

Well, he was terrific in that he was an NHL player for those ~20 games.

In no other 20 game sample size in a Ducks sweater has Bieksa really looked like an NHL player consistently to me

Except he only played 8 games, half of which were against Calgary. So only an 8 game sample size really and I didn’t think he looked good at all against Nashville. So then it becomes a 4-5 game sample size.

 

[Trojans86]

Biekaa is just really slow and has very poor puck skills. While I thought he was better in the post season last year he wasnt great, just decent at best, and this year he has been much worse during the regular season so Id expect a drop off from last season. Id play both guys and see who looks better over the first 2 games and roll with whoever is playing better.

 

[AngelDuck]

Except he only played 8 games, half of which were against Calgary. So only an 8 game sample size really and I didn’t think he looked good at all against Nashville. So then it becomes a 4-5 game sample size.

Forgot he got injured. Still though, he was fine in the games he played. If he played like that this year we'd all be stoked. I'm not sure you want to throw Welinski out there when they didn't give him much of a chance in the regular season.

 

[eternalbedhead]

Biekaa is just really slow and has very poor puck skills. While I thought he was better in the post season last year he wasnt great, just decent at best, and this year he has been much worse during the regular season so Id expect a drop off from last season. Id play both guys and see who looks better over the first 2 games and roll with whoever is playing better.

Bieksa's biggest issue (and honestly the defining line between him and Beauchemin right now) is his hockey smarts. He's slow, and not skilled, but he could still be very serviceable playing a safe, smart game. The problem is that he's not. He's making dumb pinches, failing continuously to break the puck out, and suffering non-stop defensive lapses that would make any coach (besides Carlyle of course) turn red. He's physical, and he still does possess a shadow of his formidable slapshot, but his defensive play is exceptionally poor and his vision and decision-making with the puck is very poor as well. Bieksa last playoffs stopped with his Karlsson wannabeism (is that a word? ) and that helped his play a lot -- he stopped chasing the puck as much trying to push the play offensively and played a stay-at-home DFD role, which is MUCH more agreeable with his current skillset. He wasn't fantastic but he wasn't a detriment to the team.

Compare with Beauchemin, who's slow and unskilled, but smart. His first pass is better than Bieksa's, he's miles better in his own end, and even though he's not a particularly great playmaker, he's still adequate in that area. He's a liability on the rush because of his speed, but he's adapted fairly well to the stay-at-home role that Bieksa has (save for the Calgary series) failed to adapt to.

I don't necessarily mind Beauch drawing in every now and then as long as we're not going up against a team that's oozing speed, but unless Bieksa returns to his responsible playstyle from the Calgary series -- I agree with you that Bieksa looks worse than even last year -- I don't want to see him anywhere near the lineup.