hockeyball
Registered User
- Nov 10, 2007
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We're getting the 15th pick
Book it
Tonights game will be a big indicator. Lose and we're likely top 12 at worst.
We're getting the 15th pick
Book it
We are not treading water because our prospects are getting more NHL ready. Most of the team ain't floating into retirement in the next few years and most importantly we aren't trading picks and prospects for rentals.
We are not tanking. Sorry if that rustles your jimmies. If you think that's the only way to rebuild, as I've said for years, the NHL is in trouble. Not to mention that tanking doesn't guarantee a Cup.
We're getting the 15th pick
Book it
If we end up with a top-10 pick, can you guys imagine the amount of 2nd round picks we can get by trading it?!?!
But it really isn't SIGNIFICANTLY LOWER, except last year.
Further, in the playoffs you play against the cream of the crop. In the regular season, half the games are against garbage. Please...
This season has been as bland and stale as week old mayo
I fully expect the most mediocre end game possible
Doug Wilson has traded the 8th overall pick to Los Angeles for the 28th overall pick, the 178th overall pick, and a 4th rounder in 2017.
I'll explain why I consider that treading water. But I'd like to note that this is pure conjecture at this point. We don't know where we will be drafting or even if we will miss the playoffs (though the latter is likely).
If we draft 11th OA, we are unlikely to draft an elite player, especially if we draft a D-man (where, except for goalies, our need is the greatest). Had we drafted in the top 5 (or even probably 7 or 8), we could certainly get an elite prospect. Would that prospect turn into an elite player? Who knows but the odds of that are much higher if we drafted, e.g., Marner or Werenski than if draft a prospect that is likely to be available at 11.
The org has many depth prospects. While it is commendable that, overall, the org has been good at drafting such players, getting more of them is not an org need. We need some elite players. So IMO if we are rebuilding, we should maximize our chances of getting one. It is very rare to get such a player via trades. It is possible (see Thornton, Seguin, Forsberg) but not something any org should count on.
Let me turn the question around. If we draft at 11 OA, by what metrics did the Sharks make progress? What if we draft at 14 OA?
Doesn't matter which way you ask the question, I'm just curious what all the expert armchair GMs are using as their metrics? That's not aimed at you Cryptic.
So, everybody stays and we just trade Brown for a 7th?
Doesn't matter which way you ask the question, I'm just curious what all the expert armchair GMs are using as their metrics? That's not aimed at you Cryptic.
I wonder what metrics DW is using? Take out the money/profit side of it.
Some might be:
1) X games played by players under the age of X
2) Leadership group changed, see who steps up?
3) Players still listening to coach?
4) Like LZ mentioned, prospect development in other leagues
5) Draft like you mentioned
What are some others?
It's actually not that great.
First off though, let me say that I am not in fact lumping all of our problems on Joe, but he is a problem, and I will explain why I believe that. First and foremost though let me be clear that I do not think Joe is doing this on purpose or it is a lack of effort on his part.
The reason it is not that great is because this chart isn't comparing it to his regular season numbers. Joe is at a .98ppg regular season total right now. As you see here he's a .76ppg pace career in the playoffs. That is a 23% drop. He's still good in the playoffs, but he's significantly worse in the playoffs than he is in the regular season. As a comparison, Patrick Kane is a .97ppg in the regular season and a .98ppg in the playoffs. That is a playoff leader. That and Toews (who only drops off 4%) are a HUGE reason why the Hawks have two cups. The Sharks have no one who can compare to either.
Now, the why. Joe Thornton's point pace drops off so severely in the playoffs simply because by nature of being in the playoffs you are playing against the best defensive teams. The best defensive teams have a pretty easy job defending Thornton. Why? Because he's predictable. All you have to do is assume he will pass and shutdown the lanes and you are going to cripple him. Good teams can do this very well. There are other factors, such as the Sharks blue line sometimes not being enough of a threat (making covering the forwards even easier), but Joe's refusal to shoot the puck and score goals himself, while admirable, is extremely limiting. You know Thornton will pass, stop the pass, that's it.
Now what compounds the problem is that the team is accustomed to Thornton doing all the heavy lifting, they are built around that. He is such a phenomenal player that it's very hard not to do that. His linemates become used to waiting for their magical Thornton special and stop trying to create on their own. Thornton dominates the puck so much it's difficult for his linemates to do much except shoot. Come playoff time when good teams shutdown Thornton his linemates, even when they are top end players, do not have the time to adapt. They've spent an entire season (or more) getting used to Thornton's amazing passes and when those dry up they are left struggling to produce.
That is the issue. It's not that Joe's a bad guy, or he's a choker, it's that Joe's play style is actively harmful to the team around him come playoff time. He's a crutch, and as soon as that crutch is removed the team falls over and ends up struggling to get up. By the time they get up, it's over and they are limping home.
The reality that the people who want to hold players accountable fail to grasp is that if you buy into that concept, you absolutely must hold the GM accountable for that very issue anyway because he is the one that manages the entire operation. However, most of what I'm seeing regarding the fire DW crowd is that they want to hold him AND the players accountable. Often the DW defenders are misrepresenting the position of those they're arguing against.
If this franchise wants a real fresh start, DW has to go, TMac has to go, Jumbo and Patty have to go and anyone else with a clause or even without one that doesn't want any part of the team going forward has to go.
This type of issue is not something that will go away contrary to how Mr. Roenick has to think. This affects everyone whether they admit it or not. The guy in charge of all staff and personnel decisions has practically the entire locker room against him on this issue. That's not a healthy relationship regardless of whether Jumbo and DW legitimately hash out the issue.
Forgive me if this has already been posted but I looked through the past couple pages and didn't see anything. DW says Joe isn't going anywhere:
http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=782567