Does a cup affect McDavid’s legacy?

[Spirits]

So you’re declining to engage in good faith about where inside the top 20 McDavid would land with a needed Cup win?

Let's see if he can win a series vs a non Pacific team first.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

At this point, it looks very likely that McDavid will finish somewhere in the top five in Hart trophy voting. If that's the case, it will be his 8th consecutive year. The only players with longer streaks, in all of NHL history, are Wayne Gretzky and Gordie Howe.

Most consecutive seasons, top 5 in Hart voting (1924-2023)

• 12x - Wayne Gretzky (1980 to 1991)
• 10x - Gordie Howe (1957 to 1966)
• 8x - Bobby Orr (1968 to 1975)
• 7x - Connor McDavid (2017 to 2023) - soon to be 8x?
• 6x - Bobby Hull (1964 to 1969)
• 6x - Guy Lafleur (1975 to 1980)
• 5x - Bobby Clarke (1973 to 1977)
• 5x - Gordie Howe (1951 to 1955)

Crosby 5× 13,14,15,16,17

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Crosby 5× 13,14,15,16,17

You're right - thanks for the correction.

 

[McVespa99]

It is a team game so its not really fair to penalize an individual player for lack of team success when that success is measured in championships. Especially when there are 32 teams. But the reality is people will think of McDavid's career differently if he never wins a cup.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

If the NHL is rigged, they're going to give Connor McDavid the Ray Bourque treatment. Winning the cup at the tail end of his career. That is, if he remains with the Oilers which I think he will.

 

[PaulD]

He will be on Hockeys Mount Rushmore either way. Eye test tells fans everything they need to know about how good a player is.
Example Bure never won a Cup but I know from watching he was a better player than Stephan Richer who won a couple cups. Richer was a damn good player.
Perreault and Dionne never won Cup but are probably both top 20 players ahead of Glen Anderson and John Tonelli who won multiple cups.

As far as superstar players legacy? - the cup is the cherry on top. My best, most vivid memories of Orr, Lafluer, Mario, Gretz, Sakic, Chara , Yzerman , Hull, Roy are while playing for and winning the Cup.
It really is the feather in cap of a players legacy.

 

[Turin]

Cup wins don't really effect the legacy of stars or lesser players much. They effect the legacy of superstars/generational players though.

 

[PocketNines]

I don’t know if it affects their legacy so much as their standing amongst the greats.

???

those are identical

 

[TheBeard]

???

those are identical

Not really. Their legacy is what they’re ultimately known for whereas their standing is where they fall in terms of the best ever. Regardless if he wins a cup Connor will be seen as a top ten player of all time, yet his legacy can be vastly different if he’s got a ring.

 

[EdmFlyersfan]

Top 5 (no particular order)

Gretz
Mario
Orr
Howe
Hasek/Dryden

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

Sucks to say but yes it does.

You look at the all time greats in every sport, they are the best because of winning. Not just stats.

Sucks because hockey is the sport that is one of the hardest to be a great player and carry a team to a championship, but at the end of the day, they look back and look at championships first and foremost.

 

[Warden of the North]

Of course it does. It affects the legacy of every player who wins it (or not).

It doesn't mean he won't be considered one of the GOATs, though. But there's a difference between saying this guys a champion and the best of his era vs this guy was the best of his era. There just is.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Should it? No

Would it? Yes, to enough people that would cause a stir about it

 

[Ararana]

Did you seriously just ask if winning a championship affects the legacy of an athlete? What kind of question is that? Of f***ing course it does.

If McDavid ever gets out of Edmonton and wins a cup or two he'll go down as one of the best NHLers of all time.

If he doesn't, he's going to be the Dan Marino of hockey. Exceptional regular season player who couldn't get it done when it mattered most.

 

[MuckOG]

Someone else said it earlier, but it bears repeating. If winning a cup doesn't affect his legacy, this thread wouldn't be 28 pages and counting.

 

[PocketNines]

Not really. Their legacy is what they’re ultimately known for whereas their standing is where they fall in terms of the best ever. Regardless if he wins a cup Connor will be seen as a top ten player of all time, yet his legacy can be vastly different if he’s got a ring.

I didn't actually understand the exercise was this silly. Parsing between "what they're ultimately known for" and "where they fall in terms of the best ever" for a top player is the same thing, and it's an insult to intelligence itself to listen to you explain otherwise. Come on man.

 

[TheBeard]

I didn't actually understand the exercise was this silly. Parsing between "what they're ultimately known for" and "where they fall in terms of the best ever" for a top player is the same thing, and it's an insult to intelligence itself to listen to you explain otherwise. Come on man.

Okie dokie

 

[Salsa Shark]

Of course. Compare the careers of Dionne and Lafleur and tell me which one is held in greater esteem than the other and why

 

[TheBeard]

Of course. Compare the careers of Dionne and Lafleur and tell me which one is held in greater esteem than the other and why

I know it's a flawed stat, but Dionne was a +27 in his career even with almost 500 ES goals, while the Flower was a + 446 and nearly 400 ES goals.

 

[Salsa Shark]

I know it's a flawed stat, but Dionne was a +27 in his career even with almost 500 ES goals, while the Flower was a + 446 and nearly 400 ES goals.

Yea that is the case but I can't imagine it's due to Lafleur hustling on the backcheck. (Not that Dionne ever did either)

 

[Breakers]

1000% it does

You can say it’s a team game, but if he can’t see that his current team and organization isn’t capable he should ask for his way out

It would be a huge stain on his resume if he doesn’t get one.

 

[TheBeard]

Yea that is the case but I can't imagine it's due to Lafleur hustling on the backcheck. (Not that Dionne ever did either)

But that also affects legacies in terms of the teams surrounding them and the expectations. Certainly helps to be lazy on the backcheck when you have Lapointe, Savard, Robinson and Dryden in nets than it does Bob Murdoch, Dave Hutchinson and an aging Vachon.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Cup wins don't really effect the legacy of stars or lesser players much. They effect the legacy of superstars/generational players though.

Fully agreed. Especially cups where the player is the best or 2nd best player on the team.

Thornton if he won a cup at the end. He has the cup but it isn't as that impact player if he had beat the Penguins.

 

[Salsa Shark]

But that also affects legacies in terms of the teams surrounding them and the expectations. Certainly helps to be lazy on the backcheck when you have Lapointe, Savard, Robinson and Dryden in nets than it does Bob Murdoch, Dave Hutchinson and an aging Vachon.

Yup and right or wrong these outside things DO impact how we think of each guy. Maybe not you and I but the great majority.

 

[RR44]

But that also affects legacies in terms of the teams surrounding them and the expectations. Certainly helps to be lazy on the backcheck when you have Lapointe, Savard, Robinson and Dryden in nets than it does Bob Murdoch, Dave Hutchinson and an aging Vachon.

While I'm certain Bowman's leash for Lafleur was longer than most guys on the team...it is hard to imagine he'd have been really cool with #10 sauntering back every game on a back check. As good as Lemaire defensively was plus the big 3 on D, Montreal's greatness was all pulling in the same direction...even when to spite Bowman,