Does a cup affect McDavid’s legacy?

[rogking65]

Rankings are subjective, as is legacy. If you want to rank him the GOAT, no one is stopping you. But the casual fan also factors in championships when a players legacy is discussed, at least I consider it.

If McDavid wins a Cup, his legacy will be that of a great player who won one or multiple Cups. If he doesn't win one, his legacy will be that of a great player who didn't win a Cup. Which is the better legacy? Which one is worse? And which one would McDavid rather have attached to his name?

Do you think anyone will remember one player on the Las Vegas roster 20 or 30 years from now,,,probably not. But 30 years from now or approx 50 years after Gretzky he will still be remembered as the GOAT { unless someone better comes along in those 30 years }

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

I don't think it would affect his legacy really,

It's just that he'd go down as the best player in NHL history to not hoist the Cup? Yeah? Not sure.

 

[MuckOG]

how the heck....because you fail to comprehend that it is a team sport....you cannot win alone---see Bourque

And you fail to comprehend that the TOTALITY of a players career, which includes regular season and post season success is factored into a player's legacy. I'm not even sure why something this obvious needs to be explained. You can rank players anyway you wish. Some people believe that Bobby Orr is the greatest player ever, some think that Howe is the greatest ever. Jordan vs Lebron.

When I consider a player's LEGACY, I consider the totality of their career, and that includes championships along with regular season awards. I do that for players in hockey, football, basketball and baseball....and I would venture to guess that the majority of casual fans do the same. It's just a fact that comes up in conversation when we discuss the LEGACY of a player. Ever heard of the term "the greatest player who never won a championship"?, or are you just hearing that for the first time just now?

Or do you only consider a player's regular season stats for determining their legacy? If you do, that's fine. I don't.

I don't think it would affect his legacy really,

It's just that he'd go down as the best player in NHL history to not hoist the Cup? Yeah? Not sure.

Would this not be part of a player's legacy?

 

[Video Nasty]

He lost the scoring race two years ago to the same player that leads it now.

Considering he’s won the last 3 Art Rosses, that’s a hell of a feat.

 

[StreetHawk]

I don't think it would affect his legacy really,

It's just that he'd go down as the best player in NHL history to not hoist the Cup? Yeah? Not sure.

He probably needs to get to the finals once in his career, like Marino, Tarkenten, Kelly did in the NFL.

Don't think Dionne ever did. As we stand now, he hasn't gotten to the WCF/final 4.

A long PO run does matter because to get to the finals you have to get through the regular season and another 20 odd PO games where the physicality goes to another level.

 

[MuckOG]

Do you think anyone will remember one player on the Las Vegas roster 20 or 30 years from now,,,probably not. But 30 years from now or approx 50 years after Gretzky he will still be remembered as the GOAT { unless someone better comes along in those 30 years }

I don't think you are getting it.

 

[Video Nasty]

As we stand now, he hasn't gotten to the WCF/final 4.

McDavid and the Oilers played in the 2022 Western Conference Finals.

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

And you fail to comprehend that the TOTALITY of a players career, which includes regular season and post season success is factored into a player's legacy. I'm not even sure why something this obvious needs to be explained. You can rank players anyway you wish. Some people believe that Bobby Orr is the greatest player ever, some think that Howe is the greatest ever. Jordan vs Lebron.

When I consider a player's LEGACY, I consider the totality of their career, and that includes championships along with regular season awards. I do that for players in hockey, football, basketball and baseball....and I would venture to guess that the majority of casual fans do the same. It's just a fact that comes up in conversation when we discuss the LEGACY of a player. Ever heard of the term "the greatest player who never won a championship"?, or are you just hearing that for the first time just now?

Or do you only consider a player's regular season stats for determining their legacy? If you do, that's fine. I don't.



Would this not be part of a player's legacy?

It would be a part of it, and thus affect it,

My point is.........He'd then be the greatest player in NHL history to not win a cup.

If that ends up happening.

McDavid and the Oilers played in the 2022 Western Conference Finals.

Yeah I was like "wait, what?"

Fact checking is your friend.

 

[rogking65]

I don't think you are getting it.

I will ask again "was Ray Bourque regarded differently after he won his cup?

 

[eramosat]

Duh. Of course it affects his legacy.

he has a super-awesome legacy right now, for his team, for their fans and for fans everywhere. one of the best ever, no question, and a better legacy than ~99% of players who have won the Cup! 99% implies for every 100 players who ever won a Cup, his legacy is better than 99 of them. So with about ~1450 player' names on the Cup, that puts his legacy no worse than #15, if he is the best player ever never to win a Cup....which right now he clearly is....so, pretty reasonable.

But it would be even better for everyone if he wins a Cup...1% better or 50% better, who knows...but clearly better.

Read about how Marcel Dionne or Darryl Sittler or Joe Thornton (or Brad Park...or Lundqvist...or Iginla...or Lindros, etc, etc ) feel about their own wonderful legacies. HHOF induction comments are littered with bittersweet memories of competing but never winning the Stanley Cup. A Cup quite simply adds to it...it's one of the things they all talk about. Ovechkin would agree, so does Ray Bourque.

McDavid has no worries about his place amongst the all-time greats, like Top 10-ish, give or take a few spots. But a Cup would make it easier for him to climb those rankings ,as he so easily could...because Cups make an actual difference in how players are viewed, by themselves, by organizations, by everyone.

 

[MuckOG]

I will ask again "was Ray Bourque regarded differently after he won his cup?

Yes, of course he was.

 

[Craig Button]

Boston? Are you sure? I think IF he goes anywhere, it would be Toronto. Just my two cents.

Nah. He’s going to Boston.

The league is so against the Leafs. Even at Home games the refs are against them.

If I was McDavid. I wouldn’t waste my time in any Canadian city.

The NHL has done a terrible job promoting itself in the States that they’re gonna need McDavid to play in the States to make up for the last 10 years of incompetence

 

[ForumNamePending]

If McDavid's career ends without a Cup, there will always be people who will argue "ya, but no Cup" when discussing his legacy/place in history. Fair or not, it's going to be part of the conversation.

Speaking for myself (because I'm sure McDavid cares about what some message board rando thinks), in a 32 team league, with a hard salary cap, and rules that give players almost zero control where they spend the first 8 (often prime) years of their career, I would have a hard time holding no Cup against any great player... If the player in question chronically sucked come playoff time, pointing that out would be fair, but otherwise, nah, I'm not going to get too hung up on team success.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Most consecutive 60+ assist seasons, NHL history

• 12x - Wayne Gretzky
• 8x - Connor McDavid
• 6x - Bobby Orr, Guy Lafleur, Adam Oates, Henrik Sedin, Bernie Federko
• 5x - Phil Esposito, Bryan Trottier, Joe Thornton, Peter Stastny, Doug Gilmour, Ray Bourque, Paul Coffey

I should have posted this a few weeks ago since McDavid is already up to 74 assists on the year.

Most consecutive 97+ point seasons, NHL history

• 12x - Wayne Gretzky
• 8x - Connor McDavid
• 7x - Phil Esposito
• 6x - Bobby Orr, Guy Lafleur, Steve Yzerman, Mike Bossy
• 5x - Mario Lemieux, Bryan Trottier, Marcel Dionne, Jari Kurri, Brett Hull, Adam Oates, Peter Stastny, Dale Hawerchuk

This list, of course, is based on blatant cherry-picking. But since McDavid was born in 1997 (and his jersey number is #97), it has some nice symbolism to it.

 

[ozzie]

I think it's pretty clear a cup win can only enhance his already incredible legacy. Unfortunately it's what will also keep him slightly below Wayne, Mario, Howe and Orr. If nothing else, there will always be an asterix, or a yeah but when comparing him to the greats. Fair or not. Some consider Mario to be the best ever, if not for injuries.

 

[Doubty]

Yes, it does.

Has there been a generational player that hasn't won a Cup? It's literally what you play for. How can you be the greatest at something without ever reaching the pinnacles that your peers do?

Part of winning the Cup is it dispels the myth that you can't win. Remember Ovechkin? The argument was always he's a great player, but you can't win a Cup with him. He restructured his game, focused more on defence, his stats took a hit but he won a Cup.

If McDavid doesn't win a Cup, he'll be the best player to never win a Stanley Cup IMO. It will prevent him from being considered with the all-time greats. I'd have him behind Crosby if he can't win one.

So do you think Ovi became better player after he won the cup?

 

[Monsieur Miz]

Not at all.

If the GM of the player is worthless and can't build a good team, what is the player supposed to do?

 

[Mike C]

And you fail to comprehend that the TOTALITY of a players career, which includes regular season and post season success is factored into a player's legacy. I'm not even sure why something this obvious needs to be explained. You can rank players anyway you wish. Some people believe that Bobby Orr is the greatest player ever, some think that Howe is the greatest ever. Jordan vs Lebron.

When I consider a player's LEGACY, I consider the totality of their career, and that includes championships along with regular season awards. I do that for players in hockey, football, basketball and baseball....and I would venture to guess that the majority of casual fans do the same. It's just a fact that comes up in conversation when we discuss the LEGACY of a player. Ever heard of the term "the greatest player who never won a championship"?, or are you just hearing that for the first time just now?

Or do you only consider a player's regular season stats for determining their legacy? If you do, that's fine. I don't.



Would this not be part of a player's legacy?

One of the best things I've read or seen--anywhere--ever!!

GREAT post

 

[Mike C]

I think it's pretty clear a cup win can only enhance his already incredible legacy. Unfortunately it's what will also keep him slightly below Wayne, Mario, Howe and Orr. If nothing else, there will always be an asterix, or a yeah but when comparing him to the greats. Fair or not. Some consider Mario to be the best ever, if not for injuries.

The guy hasn't even been to the finals.


History will regard him as they do Dan Marino sans at least a few finals appearances if not a championship

 

[Buck Naked]

One of the best things I've read or seen--anywhere--ever!!

GREAT post

You have very low standards.

 

[olli]

Yes but not as much many would say. Now if he wins a Connsmythe and puts together an entire playoffs of 1.5+ ppg then that definitely strengthens his legacy. And if the oilers won the cup chances are that would happen.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

A cup where if he wins the smythe vaults him to the 5th position easily. But if he wins the cup as n old passenger then not much

 

[jigglysquishy]

A cup where if he wins the smythe vaults him to the 5th position easily. But if he wins the cup as n old passenger then not much

I don't believe for a second you'll ever rank him above Crosby.

 

[MuckOG]

A cup where if he wins the smythe vaults him to the 5th position easily. But if he wins the cup as n old passenger then not much

It would help his legacy because it would remove the title "best player to never win a Cup" from his name.

 

[cowboy82nd]

So do you think Ovi became better player after he won the cup?

No, but it helps his legacy.

Not at all.

If the GM of the player is worthless and can't build a good team, what is the player supposed to do?

Leave. He didn't have to stay there.