Do you care that the NHL isn't going to the olympics

[mikeyp24]

So the system the actual Olympic Committee uses is stupid and they put a "weird" system in?
Would you rather your men's and women's ice hockey team both win bronze? Or have one of them win Gold?
Gold medals mean you are the best at the given sport. I'd much rather Canada win 5 gold than 15 bronze.

Id wamt my favorite sport gold for sure but if it was get a bronze in every event and a gold in my favorite or get a gold in 1/3 of the events and a bronze in my favorite give me all the bronze. Taking out fav and saying bronze in all or.gold in a third bronze in all 100%

 

[luki here]

When you look at Winter Olympics, summer olympics, and then team sports, what other country can compete with the US as a whole? How many medals did Norway or Canada win in the Summer Olympics? What non-Olympic sport is Norway among the best? Aside from hockey and maybe Lacrosse, what other sports is Canada considered a power? Yes, the size of the population is a big part of it. But, tell me what other country is at or near the top in as many sports as the US?

The US are the most successful country in the olympics. However that does not make the statement i originally responded to (US is the most athletic country in the world) correct. Your top tier sportsman don't really represent all walks of life in your country after all, do they? But yes, by and large I agree with your post, even though I think it is fair to point out that countries like Norway/Bahamas/Jamaika/Croatia/Hungary (and many more) are overachieving in regards to their population. If the EU would put forth 1 single team I think they would win quite easily (at least in winter-, maybe even in summer olympics)

 

[janesy12]

Id wamt my favorite sport gold for sure but if it was get a bronze in every event and a gold in my favorite or get a gold in 1/3 of the events and a bronze in my favorite give me all the bronze. Taking out fav and saying bronze in all or.gold in a third bronze in all 100%

To each their own I guess, and that's fair. My only take is right now Canada is a powerhouse. Price hasn't been tested since 2010.
Am I upset that the NHLers aren't going to the Olympics? Of course I am. I wanted to see Matthews lead team USA as their #1 centre, but unfortunately we won't get to see that for another possibly 4+ years.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

So the system the actual Olympic Committee uses is stupid and they put a "weird" system in?
Would you rather your men's and women's ice hockey team both win bronze? Or have one of them win Gold?
Gold medals mean you are the best at the given sport. I'd much rather Canada win 5 gold than 15 bronze.

big problem though...winter olympics <> all olympics.

if you combine the last winter and summer olympics together, the Gold count is:

US - 55 (9+46)
Canada - 14 (10+4)
Russia - 28 (9+19)

and 1 step further, in the 2016 summer games the US had 121 medals to Canada's 22 medals

 

[patnyrnyg]

The US are the most successful country in the olympics. However that does not make the statement i originally responded to (US is the most athletic country in the world) correct. Your top tier sportsman don't really represent all walks of life in your country after all, do they? But yes, by and large I agree with your post, even though I think it is fair to point out that countries like Norway/Bahamas/Jamaika/Croatia/Hungary (and many more) are overachieving in regards to their population. If the EU would put forth 1 single team I think they would win quite easily (at least in winter-, maybe even in summer olympics)

Possibly, but remember that would mean 1 entry for each of the team sports, and a max of 3 (I think) for individual sports. That would seriously shrink the size of the European delegation in sports where Europe is generally strong. Would every European medal winner have qualified for a Team Euro?

 

[Tom Polakis]

big problem though...winter olympics <> all olympics.

if you combine the last winter and summer olympics together, the Gold count is:

US - 55 (9+46)
Canada - 14 (10+4)
Russia - 28 (9+19)

and 1 step further, in the 2016 summer games the US had 121 medals to Canada's 22 medals

The US has nine times the population of Canada, so Canada is overachieving in both Winter and Summer games. Fat, lazy Americans (like me).

 

[janesy12]

big problem though...winter olympics <> all olympics.

if you combine the last winter and summer olympics together, the Gold count is:

US - 55 (9+46)
Canada - 14 (10+4)
Russia - 28 (9+19)

and 1 step further, in the 2016 summer games the US had 121 medals to Canada's 22 medals

I'm not debating who's the greater nation with respect to other sports though. This is a hockey forum and my original debate was that the Canadians are the reigning back to back champions, and would be the easy favourites to take this time around if NHLers had gone. I know that the USA constantly wins more medals than Canada, and that's great, but the sport we are discussing on a hockey forum is hockey and right now there is no one touching Canada.

 

[KevinRedkey]

I liked it when the NHL was there. I may not even watch this time around. We'll see.

big problem though...winter olympics <> all olympics.

if you combine the last winter and summer olympics together, the Gold count is:

US - 55 (9+46)
Canada - 14 (10+4)
Russia - 28 (9+19)

and 1 step further, in the 2016 summer games the US had 121 medals to Canada's 22 medals

USA population: ~323 million
CAN population: ~36 million

With about 9x as many people, and a larger budget per athlete, it would be odd if the USA didn't beat Canada more often than not. That's why the last winter Olympics were so impressive by Canada. To beat the USA in Gold Medals is kind of ridiculous.

 

[Hawkaholic]

I don't have a problem with it, I just won't be watching the Olympic hockey.

 

[Rcknrollkillnmachine]

Out of curiousity, who is paying insurance costs for players from other leagues i.e. KHL, SHL, Liiga, etc. Thanks in advance.

 

[kmart]

when they signed those guaranteed contracts, they became contractually obligated to their teams. you cannot in good conscience say that you can sign a contract, decide unilaterally not to uphold your end of it, and that there cannot be any reprecussions for what amounts to a willfull breach.

thats what i am saying... players/nhl have to handle the olympic clause before they sign a contract..., i at least dont know if they specifically rule out olympic participation or just not mention it at all... thats why i say its on the players, they have to care. also the nba does not collect insurance money from olympia but from the countries their talents play for, u keep mention the oic is obligated for such things which is not true... in that case olympic events would be just a income provider for private companys not just nhl. the reality is ice hockey will be played at olympia with or without nhl. if the nhl wants money for their talents they may ask the countires if not, its sad that the best will not play but no big deal long term..., in the current era capitalsim seem to prevent participation of the best which is still only a small shadow compared to history and projected future.

 

[luki here]

Possibly, but remember that would mean 1 entry for each of the team sports, and a max of 3 (I think) for individual sports. That would seriously shrink the size of the European delegation in sports where Europe is generally strong. Would every European medal winner have qualified for a Team Euro?

4 entries per team. In skiing austria often has to leave former olmpic medalists out. Team EU would win less medals than all EU countries summed but most often at least the gold medalists would be going anyways. Funny side effect would be that other countries would win more medals including the US.

 

[lomiller1]

pet scans do not and formally cannot detect CTE. It's akin to saying you went to a phrenologist to see if you had CTE. The guy that rubbed your head might think you have CTE, but that's a far cry from evidence that you do

this is the definition of diagnosis

1. 1.
   the identification of the nature of an illness or other problem by examination of the symptoms.
   "early diagnosis and treatment are essential"
   

   synonyms:

   identification, detection, recognition, determination, discovery, pinpointing

   [TBODY] [/TBODY]

• I don't see " getting it close enough or still withing the realm of formal possibility as being a synonym. And a non valuable diagnosis is by definition not valuable. if it were, " ebola" could be the diagnosis for everything. the value of a diagnosis is IN the identification of the underlying cause of the illness or symptom. If you want to unilaterally redefine the word to suit your argument, then I say that you sir are a " genius".

Progress on diagnosing CTE in living patients does appear to be making progress. Eg here is one avenue based on a potential biomarker.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/09/170926143601.htm

Here is another that uses PET scans in concert with a detectable marker that attaches to proteins known to exist in the brains of people who suffered from CTE
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/09/140916102222.htm
It’s the same technique that lead to this more recent story
http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/16/health/cte-confirmed-in-first-living-person-bn/index.html

Not a formal CTE diagnosis but measure (and in some cases extreme) differences in the brains of living football players
https://www.thespec.com/news-story/7533244-collision-course-concussions-are-ticking-time-bomb-for-former-players/

 

[Holymakinaw]

Are you a chinese taxpayer? If you are so lucky and no olympics ever take place in your country you pay nothing, that is my point. FIFA and the IOC are very corrupt and I am not a friendly towards them. But they have spent 0 of my money up to this point (UEFA spent some on the lamest EURO ever).

Therefore it's okay??? LOL. No. It's not okay.

 

[GodEmperor]

Ofc, I cannot understand how "hockey fans" don't want to watch the best in the world go head to head, especially when it's once every 4 years.

Inb4 "muh injuries," how often have injuries from the Olympics actually really impacted the NHL? Besides, it's like 8 extra games (TOPS), there is no guarantee that they wouldn't have gotten injured playing for your team anyways.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Ofc, I cannot understand how "hockey fans" don't want to watch the best in the world go head to head, especially when it's once every 4 years.

Inb4 "muh injuries," how often have injuries from the Olympics actually really impacted the NHL? Besides, it's like 8 extra games (TOPS), there is no guarantee that they wouldn't have gotten injured playing for your team anyways.

2014 Olympics Injuries:

Tavares - knee, done for year
Zetterberg - back, done for year
Barkov - knee, 4-6 weeks
Zuccarello - broken hand, 3-4 weeks
Kopecky - concussion
Paul Martin - broken hand, 4-6 weeks

 

[Syckle78]

2014 Olympics Injuries:

Tavares - knee, done for year
Zetterberg - back, done for year
Barkov - knee, 4-6 weeks
Zuccarello - broken hand, 3-4 weeks
Kopecky - concussion
Paul Martin - broken hand, 4-6 weeks

Zetterbergs back was an issue long before. That was going to end his year at some point anyway.

 

[lomiller1]

Out of curiousity, who is paying insurance costs for players from other leagues i.e. KHL, SHL, Liiga, etc. Thanks in advance.

They don't have insurance costs because their contracts are not guaranteed. If a player is injured and can't can’t play, the team is not obligated to continue paying their salary, they can just cut them. The NHL insures its contracts because they have to keep paying the salary even if the player can never play again.

 

[luki here]

Therefore it's okay??? LOL. No. It's not okay.

I never said it’s ok. You said they are wasting billions of our dollars. I only said they have none of my money (probably none of yours either, or?). Since i love sports i would love if the fbi uncovered the corruption in the IOC just like they did in the FIFA.

 

[D Wakaluk]

Inb4 "muh injuries," how often have injuries from the Olympics actually really impacted the NHL? Besides, it's like 8 extra games (TOPS), there is no guarantee that they wouldn't have gotten injured playing for your team anyways.

But those are better injuries.

Injured in pre-season? - Phew, I'm glad it wasn't some meaningless international competition
Injured in practise? - Phew, I'm glad it wasn't some meaningless international competition
Injured in warm-ups? - Phew, Im glad it wasn't some meaningless international competition

There's a lot of phews to go around and I even left out the actual games.

 

[luki here]

They don't have insurance costs because their contracts are not guaranteed. If a player is injured and can't can’t play, the team is not obligated to continue paying their salary, they can just cut them. The NHL insures its contracts because they have to keep paying the salary even if the player can never play again.

This cant be right. Is this really true?

 

[sandysan]

Progress on diagnosing CTE in living patients does appear to be making progress. Eg here is one avenue based on a potential biomarker.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/09/170926143601.htm

Here is another that uses PET scans in concert with a detectable marker that attaches to proteins known to exist in the brains of people who suffered from CTE
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/09/140916102222.htm
It’s the same technique that lead to this more recent story
http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/16/health/cte-confirmed-in-first-living-person-bn/index.html

Not a formal CTE diagnosis but measure (and in some cases extreme) differences in the brains of living football players
https://www.thespec.com/news-story/7533244-collision-course-concussions-are-ticking-time-bomb-for-former-players/

potential biomarkers are just that. potential. I know something about biomarker development, its not as easy as getting something that looks promising and then rolling int out and then hoping that it has predictive value. We don't need another definitive assay, IHC works fine. pathologists can roll it out at will, provided they have the tissue, We need something that we can give to patients so that we can rationally inform them of the consequences of their decisions OR to inform on treatment ( which we also, don't yet have).

There are tons of potential biomarkers, GFAP in blood for concussions was recently proposed. if that EVER gets to the clinic its not going to be next week, next month or next year.

as for the first one, I find that curious. PET scans imply that the tissue is metabolically active. This is generally not the case in patients who have been diagnosed with CTE because, as I have said, they all share one universal characteristic, they are dead. so how those two go together is not clear to me.

that being said, I am all for more experimetal approaches to try and detect CTE and a variety of other diseases. I think that these approaches, even if the majority of them fail, are worth it based on the benefit of the unlikely chance that one does not. But we are not there yet. we are not CLOSE to being there yet. and even if we get there, the idea that these approaches are predictive is still VERY MUCH unknown, as has been shown by the PSA debacle.

if you think that we are on the precipice of having a diagnostic tool to detect CTE, conside this. We currently have only recently accepted molecular tools to diagnose Alzheimer's ( one immunological, beta amyloid in the CSF and one imaging based). But alzherimer's is characterized by specific behavioural symptoms. CTE is not. We have no idea how CTE affects behaviour/cognition or memory.

its easy to get misled by the daily PR from sites like science daily that we are going to cure disease X or that chocolate staves of cancer or that chocolate causes cancer. I get there is a reason to be optimistic. but we have to be cautiously if not skeptically optimistic. our track history of transitioning things that are " promising" into things that directly help patients is ABYSMAL. whether one is an optimist or a pessimist doesnt change the fact that RIGHT NOW, not accounting for all possible possibilities and permutations in the future, there is ONE and ONLY ONE accepted way to diagnose CTE, and that this diagnosis requires that the "patient" be dead.

 

[sandysan]

This cant be right. Is this really true?

it is, and not only is it possible that you get cut and deprived of the money that is owed to you, you might not get the money that you actually earned .

To quote George Thorogood " She a-howlin' about the front rent, she'll be lucky to get any back rent, she ain't gonna get none of it "

The NFL is like this as well, they dont like you they can cut you at will which is why the NFL contracts are heavily front loaded with signing bonuses because those can't be clawed back.

 

[sandysan]

Ofc, I cannot understand how "hockey fans" don't want to watch the best in the world go head to head, especially when it's once every 4 years.

Inb4 "muh injuries," how often have injuries from the Olympics actually really impacted the NHL? Besides, it's like 8 extra games (TOPS), there is no guarantee that they wouldn't have gotten injured playing for your team anyways.

so a big fan of the world cup of hockey I presume ?

 

[djpatm]

so a big fan of the world cup of hockey I presume ?

It's not relevant outside the most hardcore of hockey circles, that's the problem. The Olympics makes the Hockey Tournament instantly relevant worldwide. Despite that, it could've been a great tournament if it wasn't NHL run with gimmicky teams and no proper qualifying. It was essentially an NHL Invitational.

The lack of a true Best on Best tournament is a travesty for this sport and it's on both the IOC and the NHL. Both made it clear they are not actual fans of the game, they just care about money. You don't see any other sports league fighting so hard to keep it's players out of international tournaments.