Devils 2017-18 team discussion (player news and notes) - Offseason part VIII

[217 Forever]

I'd honestly rather just sign a veteran dman to shore up the backend than trade a young forward. I doubt other teams value Henrique like we do. We would be getting a defenseman that is more inferior at his position than Henrique is at his position if that makes sense.

Lol people here seem down on Henrique more than anything else.

FWIW I think that his value is equivalent to a legit 2nd pairing guy of similar age myself (not that it will be any easier to make a deal along those lines but that's my opinion).

 

[JimEIV]

How can you even question the ones I highlighted above? Those are absolutely no risk pickups. We were in no position to be trading away assets so picking up these type of players hoping they can find their game and round out to be good NHL defensemen is exactly what Shero had to do. You cannot criticize that. Also guys like Lovejoy, Quincey and Prout are temporary stop gaps because we literally have nothing else. As Tri said they have to find undervalued defensemen and until you can afford to give away assets you cannot do much else.

That list is everything that was brought in by Shero to have played at least one NHL game. I didn't discriminate in any way. Just put it all out there.

Finding undervalued defensemen is nearly impossible as well I was just preparing a post and I threw it away..I figured what is the point.


But the gist was I looked at top defesnemen in the league, I based it on scoring even though that isn't probably the best way...I copied the top 44 defesnemen from NHL.com - Only 18 of the top 44 had actually switched teams from the original that drafted them.

I counted Ryan McDonagh as "Traded" - even though he never played a game for Montreal.

But Of the 18 that did move from their original team 4 were because of UFA or Impending UFA Mike Green, Ryan Sutter, Keith Yandle, Dustin Byfuglien - (The later two traded with a year remaining)

So you're look at 14 of 44 or about 30% have actually been moved...70% are still with their Original team. Moral of the story is good dmen don't get moved.

You have to draft defensemen and the fact that we haven't drafted any with one of our top 3 picks since Josh Jacobs 3 drafts ago is a problem.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Even if he tests the market. It is extremely foolish to hang your hopes on a free agent.

 

[Scorcho]

Even if he tests the market. It is extremely foolish to hang your hopes on a free agent.

not my hopes, just my wet dreams

 

[BurntToast]

I find many people's view on what is considered a good #4 defenseman "comical". A shot suppressior, who is also has strong possession numbers and can generate shots on net. You know whats harder to get then a good defesnman and good offensive defenseman. Demers is so bad he has been passed up on the Panthers dept charts. He has blocked trades and made them give up a 30 goal scorer in the expansion draft by not waiving his nmc. Lets take Markov a 38 year who can't get his own team to resign him. He is a name and a decling player. If we are bad we could end up with a generational talent D, with Rykov coming soon and a chance at Carlson. Plus Saniti, Severson, Müller, Kapla, Jacobs developing. If the Devils were going to trade Henrique they would be smart to wait until after preseason or the trade deadline.

 

[Brooklyndevil]

I'd honestly rather just sign a veteran dman to shore up the backend than trade a young forward. I doubt other teams value Henrique like we do. We would be getting a defenseman that is more inferior at his position than Henrique is at his position if that makes sense.

Depending on how the Capitals do this year I could easily see Carlson testing the market. The Caps haven't done anything lately and he would get paid a ridiculous amount on the open market. I don't think it's that out of the question. Plus he was Devils fan growing up!

You think he'll pull a Shattenkirk? But this time it's New Jersey that a player want's to play for.

 

[njdevils19]

I find it counterproductive for the Devils to trade one of their top Defenseman one year for more offense, and then the next year trade one of the Devils best offensive players for more Defense.

I understand your point but it isn't really a one for one in swapping Larsson for another D man and Hall for Henrique. We win big on Hall for Henrique so we would just need a #2 or 3 Dman back for Henrique to still win on those exchanges. Not saying that is easy or possible but in that case I think you need to make the trade if we even get a #3 back.

The other point is since we traded for Hall our offensive potential has gone up a lot. Johansson was brought in. Nico was brought in. Zacha, Mcleod, and Quenneville are all close or ready to produce. Losing Henrique right when we gained Hall might have been an issue at something closer to a net of 0, but now it wouldn't be.

The one issue with fixing the D through the draft is that by the time that process works it's way out, Greene will probably be nearing the end as well. That means we essentially have Severson, Santini, and an aging Greene. Replacing potentially 3 or perhaps 4 guys if you look at it that way won't take 1 year of drafting. At some point a Mueller type player or a trade is going to have to work out in our favor in addition to drafting.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

I find many people's view on what is considered a good #4 defenseman "comical". A shot suppressior, who is also has strong possession numbers and can generate shots on net. You know whats harder to get then a good defesnman and good offensive defenseman.

I agree that it's sort of pointless to talk about whether someone is a number whatever defenseman, unless we're talking about the potential of a draft pick/prospect for which those terms are used as a frame of reference.

The better to way to think about the Devils' defensive depth at both the NHL and prospect level is how many teams could our defenseman actually play for either now or down the road if we're talking prospects. It's there that it gets depressing. Severson and Greene could probably get regular playing time on 90% of the teams in the NHL. Santini right now would get to play for maybe 40% of the teams in the league and down the road probably to where Greene and Severson are. With Moore and Lovejoy, we're talking maybe 30%. Mueller is incomplete, but it doesn't look promising.

The rest of our defensive prospects aren't really worth talking about since they'll either never sniff the NHL (Jacobs) or are very far away at this point (Rykov).

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

You think he'll pull a Shattenkirk? But this time it's New Jersey that a player want's to play for.

I have a very, very hard time seeing it.

 

[EnglishDevil]

After missing out on Shattenkirk and seeing the trade prices for defencemen league-wide, i'm willing to accept going into next season with what we have.

The offense should be much improved (including their play in our own zone), Schneider will likely rebound and it isn't out of the realm of possibility that Severson, Santini, Mueller or Kapla make some strides in the right direction.

If they want to throw a 1 year deal at Franson and turn him into a pick at the deadline i'm fine with that too, but right now our best option might be to stand pat and re-address the position next off-season with a new crop of free agents and the possibility of Rykov coming over.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

After missing out on Shattenkirk and seeing the trade prices for defencemen league-wide, i'm willing to accept going into next season with what we have.

The offense should be much improved (including their play in our own zone), Schneider will likely rebound and it isn't out of the realm of possibility that Severson, Santini, Mueller or Kapla make some strides in the right direction.

If they want to throw a 1 year deal at Franson and turn him into a pick at the deadline i'm fine with that too, but right now our best option might be to stand pat and re-address the position next off-season with a new crop of free agents and the possibility of Rykov coming over.

I agree. The price of defensemen right now might be too much. Wait a year, we're not winning a cup in 2018 anyway.

 

[FooteBahl]

I have a very, very hard time seeing it.

So do I unfortunately. He was probably a ranger fan growing up anyway...

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

There's a idea that was brought up that made sense for both teams. The Ducks would send us Vatanen and a 2nd/3rd round pick for Henrique and Lovejoy. We could even retain 50% of Adam's salary in order to get a better pick (2nd instead of a 3rd).

The Ducks get a legit winger to play on their 2nd/3rd line and a dman that had solid chemistry with their #1 dman in Cam Fowler. We get a more offensive minded blueliner in Vatanen, we get rid of of Lovejoy and add a extra pick in a strong draft.

That type of deal would be ideal for us and I don't see why Anaheim wouldn't like it either. The only negative I can see is Lovejoy but they wouldn't have to play a rookie in Vatanen's spot and as bad as he is, he's still a better option over Bieksa and Holzer on the right side.

 

[Brooklyndevil]

After missing out on Shattenkirk and seeing the trade prices for defencemen league-wide, i'm willing to accept going into next season with what we have.

The offense should be much improved (including their play in our own zone), Schneider will likely rebound and it isn't out of the realm of possibility that Severson, Santini, Mueller or Kapla make some strides in the right direction.

If they want to throw a 1 year deal at Franson and turn him into a pick at the deadline i'm fine with that too, but right now our best option might be to stand pat and re-address the position next off-season with a new crop of free agents and the possibility of Rykov coming over.

That's a great idea. Buyout Rykov's contract. I believe he has one more year. Either that or steal his passport.

 

[Cult of Hynes]

Everyone constantly putting him at Center out of the gate isn't being realistic.

It is extremely rare for an 18 year old to start at C in the NHL. Even McDavid played a good amount of wing just last season. Starting a (probably) 185 pound 18 year old kid at Center is foolish. And he has played a good amount of wing, so it isn't "shifting him out of position." And finally, the team has several more experience Centers. Will be shocked if he doesn't start the season at wing, most likely right.

The extremely rare trope, the size trope and the experience trope. Bingo, Devils fan cliches!

Yes, it is shifting him out of position when he has played the majority of his career at center. It's also foolish from a development point of view since it means less time at the position that he is projected to play. Hey, play wing. Don't worry, you totally won't have to learn the NHL game next year at center, which is a different world from the wing position, especially at this level. Yea nah, it's a really bad move. Plus, we have no players more skilled than him at the center position, regardless of experience.

Oh, and no, McDavid played center. You must be thinking about Draisaitl who was the one that played more wing than center.

If McDavid played wing, it wasn't for a good amount of games, it was probably once in a while.

 

[BurntToast]

If the litmus test is the Penguins bc they won the cup and Lovejoy played for them then, soooooooo........Its silly to rate one teams players over another. I know the top guys, few young guys and a few players in our trade parameters other then that I don't give a fartcicle about other teams players. This is my problem with fantasy hockey. The tough part is finding gems or players trending up. I would say trading Henrique for a broken Vatanen is pretty risky.

 

[devilsblood]

The extremely rare trope, the size trope and the experience trope. Bingo, Devils fan cliches!

Yes, it is shifting him out of position when he has played the majority of his career at center. It's also foolish from a development point of view since it means less time at the position that he is projected to play. Hey, play wing. Don't worry, you totally won't have to learn the NHL game next year at center, which is a different world from the wing position, especially at this level. Yea nah, it's a really bad move. Plus, we have no players more skilled than him at the center position, regardless of experience.

Oh, and no, McDavid played center. You must be thinking about Draisaitl who was the one that played more wing than center.

If McDavid played wing, it wasn't for a good amount of games, it was probably once in a while.

I think it's fine for a young C to start ones career at the less demanding position of wing. You get acclimated to the speed and physicality of the game without the full responsibilities of C.

So their is a developmental benefit to it.

And while C is the more demanding position, it is not as though wing and center are extremely different. The fwd positions are often very fluid.

 

[JimEIV]

The idea is to let the young​ player see NHL game speed and get the feel without​ the demands of the center position.

It's been done forever ...our two best centers in our history started at LW...Kirk Muller and Jason Arnott both played LW until they settled in.

Not a big deal.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I wouldn't hate Nico at RW to start mainly because of our terrible depth. If MoJo/Zacha/McLeod doesn't move there Nico could.

Hall - Zajac - Palmieri
Mojo - Zacha - Nico
Henrique - McLeod - Blandisi
Wood - Boyle - Noesen/Speers

Or you could move it around 50 different other ways. I don't really care where Nico plays as long as he plays well.

 

[The 29th Pick]

So do I unfortunately. He was probably a ranger fan growing up anyway...

http://www.newsday.com/sports/hocke...was-not-a-fan-of-rangers-growing-up-1.3714955

 

[Bleedred]

So do I unfortunately. He was probably a ranger fan growing up anyway...

I'm pretty sure he has publicly said he was a Devils fan and idolized Scott Stevens.

Which made it seem like he would be almost a surefire pick of ours in 2008.

 

[New Jersey Devils]

Carlson is probably my favorite non-Devil. A real damn shame that we passed on him in '08. Doubt WSH lets him go.

 

[Classic Devil]

I'm pretty sure he has publicly said he was a Devils fan and idolized Scott Stevens.

Which made it seem like he would be almost a surefire pick of ours in 2008.

Yes, I remember from that year that Carlson grew up a Devils fan. We all wanted him here at the time, too; he was the board's consensus draft pick and we were really exited he fell to us.

2008 was a bad draft. Henrique salvaged it a bit for us, but it was still a bad draft.

Tedenby over Carlson.
Burlon over Hamonic.
Cormier over Scandella.
Then at least we got Henrique in the 4th. Though the board hated that pick at the time.

 

[FooteBahl]

http://www.newsday.com/sports/hocke...was-not-a-fan-of-rangers-growing-up-1.3714955

So you're saying there's a chance? Lol

 

[AfroThunder396]

Yes, I remember from that year that Carlson grew up a Devils fan. We all wanted him here at the time, too; he was the board's consensus draft pick and we were really exited he fell to us.

2008 was a bad draft. Henrique salvaged it a bit for us, but it was still a bad draft.

Tedenby over Carlson.
Burlon over Hamonic.
Cormier over Scandella.
Then at least we got Henrique in the 4th. Though the board hated that pick at the time.

I remember that draft vivdly, the "Adam Turdrique" post will forever live in infamy around here.