Devils 2017-18 team discussion (player news and notes) - Offseason part VIII

[Devilsfan118]

We must be watching different teams. I clearly saw Henrique dog it on numerous occasions.

I can vouch for this.

Plus, IIRC the whole reason this "move Henrique" trend started was because Shero came out and said some guys were a little too comfortable last year or something like that.

I absolutely consider Henrique as one of those guys who doesn't bring it every night and might be a little too comfortable here.

 

[devilsblood]

Henrique has way too many deficiencies in his game to be a your first or 2nd line center. He's hard to play with, drags down guys possession wise, and is incredibly streaky. He honestly isn't even that skilled of a player which is why he struggles with a skilled, speedster in Hall. He's got a good shot and a good nose for getting scrappy goals, which is the only reason he's garnered the reputation he has. At best he's a passenger LW on a very skilled 2nd line. He's not good defensively either. Guys that can play the PK like Rico are a dime a dozen. I really would move Henrique easily, but I don't think NHL GMs are in love with him as much as fans think they are because of his name-value.

But the defensive workload at lw is much easier then at C, when we say he's not good defensively, we are saying he has not been good defensively as a top 6 C. I think he'd prove much more effective as a winger.

Johansson is getting love for his defensive work, but this is as wing.

If Rico can pot 25 goals as a lw, I think people are way too quick to give that up.

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

I'm open to moving Henrique in a good value deal, but I'd also like to see him at LW for a season.

If you put him on a line with speed (McLeod) and two-way responsibility (Zajac), I think you'd see Henrique hit 30 again. He needs to be in a situation where he's a straight-line scorer that goes to the net and gets open. Nothing else.

A Henrique-Zajac-McLeod line would work well, IMO.

 

[MartyOwns]

I'm open to moving Henrique in a good value deal, but I'd also like to see him at LW for a season.

If you put him on a line with speed (McLeod) and two-way responsibility (Zajac), I think you'd see Henrique hit 30 again. He needs to be in a situation where he's a straight-line scorer that goes to the net and gets open. Nothing else.

A Henrique-Zajac-McLeod line would work well, IMO.

i dont disagree with the logic, but...if i had the choice between a top 4 defenseman or someone who needs a teenager to be effective + 2nd round pick...im going defenseman.

 

[devilsblood]

i dont disagree with the logic, but...if i had the choice between a top 4 defenseman or someone who needs a teenager to be effective + 2nd round pick...im going defenseman.

Are we talking a #4 d-man? I'd rather have the 30 goals.

And yeah guys who score 30 typically play with good players. Johansson certainly benefited by playing with good players.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I'd much rather have a good top 4 defenseman than Henrique. Not even close either.

 

[devilsblood]

I'd much rather have a good top 4 defenseman than Henrique. Not even close either.

We say top 4, are we talking a #4? Like almost 3rd pairing?

We have a whole bunch of those guys.

 

[JimEIV]

I'd much rather have a good top 4 defenseman than Henrique. Not even close either.

That's were it gets dicey. Nobody is selling good defensemen. They hardly ever do.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

We say top 4, are we talking a #4? Like almost 3rd pairing?

We have a whole bunch of those guys.

We don't have a bunch of #4 defensemen. Greene is probably a decent ~3 at this point, Severson is probably 2 or 3, Moore is 6-7, Mueller we don't know but may not even be an NHL player, Lovejoy should be at most a 6, Santini is probably a 5 or 6.

 

[njdevil26]

If Shero could trade for Demers and sign Markov while keeping Henrique, I'd be ecstatic.


Hall-Zajac-Palmieri
Johansson-Hischier-Still need someone
Zacha-Henrique-Noesen
Wood-Boyle-Blandisi


Greene-Severson
Markov-Demers
Moore/Mueller-Santini
Lovejoy

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

That's were it gets dicey. Nobody is selling good defensemen. They hardly ever do.

Vatanen didn't have a great year last year (probably related to his shoulder injury), but he's had good years in the past and he's only like 25. He's reportedly on the block and he's good. Demers is a pretty good top 4 defenseman too.

 

[devilsblood]

We don't have a bunch of #4 defensemen. Greene is probably a decent ~3 at this point, Severson is probably 2 or 3, Moore is 6-7, Mueller we don't know but may not even be an NHL player, Lovejoy should be at most a 6, Santini is probably a 5 or 6.

I'd rather see if Mueller and Santini can handle 2nd pair minutes then bring in an OK middle pairing guy.

And I understand those guys will prob split and mix and match with lovejoy and Moore, certainly at the start, but let's see if the young guys can step up.

Part of my thought process is also acknowledging that Lovejoy and Moore are going to play.

 

[devilsblood]

Vatanen didn't have a great year last year (probably related to his shoulder injury), but he's had good years in the past and he's only like 25. He's reportedly on the block and he's good. Demers is a pretty good top 4 defenseman too.

This is kind of my point on the level of top4 we are talking about.

Demers had the worst corsi and relative corsi amongst Florida's d-men(Edit of guys who played over 750 minutes). And he turns 30 this season. I'm not trading rico for that.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

This is kind of my point on the level of top4 we are talking about.

Demers had the worst corsi and relative corsi amongst Florida's d-men. And he turns 30 this season. I'm not trading rico for that.

I'm not saying trade Henrique for Demers. I'm saying he's a pretty good top 4 defenseman that's on the trade block. And that's a cherry picked stat in his first year on a new team. His corsi was good in Dallas and ok in SJ.

Also Henrique has never been a strong player possession wise. All he is is an opportunistic scorer and a decent penalty killer. Doesn't do a whole lot well.

 

[devilsblood]

I'm not saying trade Henrique for Demers. I'm saying he's a pretty good top 4 defenseman that's on the trade block. And that's a cherry picked stat in his first year on a new team. His corsi was good in Dallas and ok in SJ.

Also Henrique has never been a strong player possession wise. All he is is an opportunistic scorer and a decent penalty killer. Doesn't do a whole lot well.

It's not exactly cherry picked, it's the most recent year. but you are right he had very good possession #'s in Dallas.

I like the Demers deal from the otherday, Lovejoy, maybe with money retained, plus whatever, a pick, maybe Blender.

Or do the same on the left, where you boot John Moore, and sign Markov.

But I want Mueller and Santini playing. And I'm not into trading Henrique for even a serviceable mid pair guy.

 

[devilsblood]

The Johannson trade did signify that we aren't just laying down this upcoming season.

but there is still the question of our legitimate timeline. Yeah we are bringing in a bunch of talent. but we are going to be ridiculously young at a bunch of spots. And if that's the case do we want to trade for a soon to be 30 year old d-man?

Clearly we are going to be playing a bunch of young kids up front. So why are we not prepared to play a couple young guys on the back end as well?

 

[zharkenby]

Im aware this won't be a popular opinion, but I'm all aboard the Cody Franson train. 6'5 Offensive Dman who hits. Basically a Kurtis foster before he completely fell of the rails with more of a physical element. not ideal, but there isn't much else left out there.

 

[JimEIV]

I'm not sure Ray knows what a good Dman is? He has a history of hiring bad coach and making questionable moves with defesnemen.

His last 3 coaching hires - Therrien, Bylsma and Hynes...Wooof

Scudari, Murray, Traded for a broken down Jordan Leopold

David Schlemko
John Moore
Gragnani
Warsofsky
Quincey
Lovejoy
Auvitu
Stollery
Prout
Kapla

Just Brought in
Brian Strait
Mirco Muller

Talk about a big steaming pile of crap?

I think Shero should hire someone to deal with the defense and picking coaches. Let him stick to trading for forwards.

 

[Devil X]

I think some are being a little to hard on Henrique. Almost like youre all getting ready for a Henrique trade and trying to lessen the blow by making him a whipping boy.

Losing Henrique makes this offense about as good as it was last year. With unknowns in Hischier, Zacha, and McLeod. But basically you replaced Johansson with Henrique, Ill agree that Johansson is likely better but we also have shiny new toy syndrome at the moment. Johansson is coming from a very high powered team.

If you want the offense to be better it needs to include what we have now.

Im not saying I wouldnt trade Henrique in the right deal, Im just saying your all kidding yourself if you dont think it will hurt the offense and depth of this team.

Id much rather find a deal that involved picks or prospects then trading a goal scorer, because you know, we have issues scoring goals.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Im aware this won't be a popular opinion, but I'm all aboard the Cody Franson train. 6'5 Offensive Dman who hits. Basically a Kurtis foster before he completely fell of the rails with more of a physical element. not ideal, but there isn't much else left out there.

If we dumped Lovejoy somewhere for him that would be fine. But if we keep Lovejoy and he bumps Santini out, I don't want him.

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

i dont disagree with the logic, but...if i had the choice between a top 4 defenseman or someone who needs a teenager to be effective + 2nd round pick...im going defenseman.

It's not about Henrique needing McLeod. It's about Henrique being maximized when he's on the ice with forwards that are either fast or responsible (or both).

When maximized, Henrique is a 30-goal scorer. We saw it.

 

[Cult of Hynes]

Henrique going for a dman doesn't hurt the offense. Most of the issues offensively came from not having guys on the back end that could break out properly or get shots through cleanly or cycle it cleanly. And why would we trade prospects when they are the future and have higher ceilings than a mid - late 20s player like Henrique? Especially as a rebuilding team?

 

[Edmonton East]

Nico isn't going to play center if he makes the team. They will start him on the wing.

 

[Cult of Hynes]

Nico isn't going to play center if he makes the team. They will start him on the wing.

He's a center. Constantly shifting players out of position is foolish.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I think some are being a little to hard on Henrique. Almost like youre all getting ready for a Henrique trade and trying to lessen the blow by making him a whipping boy.

Losing Henrique makes this offense about as good as it was last year. With unknowns in Hischier, Zacha, and McLeod. But basically you replaced Johansson with Henrique, Ill agree that Johansson is likely better but we also have shiny new toy syndrome at the moment. Johansson is coming from a very high powered team.

If you want the offense to be better it needs to include what we have now.

Im not saying I wouldnt trade Henrique in the right deal, Im just saying your all kidding yourself if you dont think it will hurt the offense and depth of this team.

Id much rather find a deal that involved picks or prospects then trading a goal scorer, because you know, we have issues scoring goals.

I just don't think he's all that great and was particularly mediocre last year. And frankly, I'd be disappointed if Zacha alone doesn't match what Henrique was able to do last year. Mojo, Zacha's development, Hischier, McLeod, Boyle in for Fiddler, etc. all should help the offense. And presumably the defenseman we'd get for Henrique would help the offense some.